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MG TD TF 1500 - Transmission Interior Paint

Does anyone know of any special requriements for the paint used on the interior of TD/TF transmissions? I am concerned about its compatability with the warm/hot oil. I understand the inside was painted to retain any sand particles from the original casting mold.
Jim Merz

i had not heard of this. i will be curious as to the responses. tom
tm peterson

Jim,
Interesting to read that the TD gearbox is treated the same way as the inside of all BMC engines.(BMC A, B and C-series that is !)
I also read somewhere it was to retain sand particles although other sources speak about improved oil flow too. Anyway, the paint looks like normal red-oxyde primer but some say it's a special laquer used also for the inside of electric motors when these are overhauled.
Maybe nice to know that all big compressors and gearboxes in our chemical plant are treated in the same way....
Hope this may be of help.
Cheers,
Nick 52TD/63midget
Nick

Jim,

Never heard of anything being used in a gearbox - and all three of the TC boxes I have are bare metal...however there has been a discussion about coatings inside the oilpan of the XPAG recently on the T-ABC.org bulletin board...here's one possibility:

***************************************************

Gentlemen,

Back in the 50's and 60's, we sold to engine Mfg'rs, Wisconsin Motors and Murphy Diesel, and others, a red oxide nitrocellose lacquer crankcase sealer thinned with a lacquer thinner that had phosphoric acid as a component to etch, that was used to seal the porus castings and uncleaned castings. It dried fast, was very thin and seemed to do the job as it would not come
off when immersed in hot oil. The UK had the use of these types of coatings and perhaps that was what was used. Glyptal was-is a phenolic coating-expensive and slow dry. Would some one in the UK use something like that in an inexpensive car as an M.G.? Hot alkali should strip most alkyd paints and coatings of that vintage, but will have tougher time with epoxy and phenolics.

Cheers!

Bill Hentzen
Mequon WI
TB0437
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Regards,
Gene
Gene Gillam

A good coating for the inside of the gear case and the engine is a product called Glyptal.
It gives a slick surface to the inner castings and allows oil to run back freely as well as provide protection to the unwetted areas. It is used by racers and many engine builders. This is the same coating used by electrical motor and generator manufactures on the inside the housings.It has very high resistance to oil.
Sold in liquid and spray cans. Eastwood has it - I bought it in liquid from Autozone.
Dallas Congleton

Thank you all for your comments. Tomorrow, I will head for Auto Zone to buy a can of Glyptal. I dont care to learn the effect of a few grains of sand in my gearbox after I get it all stuffed back together.
Jim Merz

Jim....I just happen to have a couple of T-Series gearboxes open and cleaned. They are painted inside and appear to have the same paint as the outer case. Paint is very sound, and a little faded looking but none of it has come off the castings.
Colin Stafford

I was unable to find Glyptal from any local source but I bought some Dolph-Spray (ER-41) from an electric motor repair shop. I was told it was the product they use and did the same job as Glyptal. I have a 20 oz. spray can costing $8.00. Specs say oil had no effect if allowed to dry for 48 hours and it withstands temperatures to 155C. I'm going to use this on the inside of the transmission cases.
Jim Merz

I'm reactivating this thread just to satisfy my curiosity.

Keith Meyer and I have been discussing paint inside TD/TF gearboxes. Keith correctly describes the color as "flat tomato red". The paint is nearly perfect inside the six or seven gearboxes that I have seen. Looks the same in places that are submerged in gear oil, such as the bottom of the case -- as it looks under the top cover where it is wet but not submerged. It is thin ... no drips or runs. It is not on any of the machined surfaces. To me, that implies that the inside was painted before the final milling.

So -- what is it?

Thanks,

Lonnie
TF7211



LM Cook

Isn't it Glyptol? Bud
Bud Krueger

Glyptal
Dave H


Dave Hill

I believe that Glyptal, an alkyd enamel, was originally developed for the electrical industry in the early 1900's by Thomas Edison as a paint to be applied to coils and armatures, and is a particularly good sealant, heat and moisture resistant.

Like any specialty product the applications become broader over time, and people have been using it as a metal and engine sealer for years. It is easy to apply, and VERY resistant to flaking and chipping when properly applied and permitted to dry, and moisture and heat resistant.

Originally it was used on aluminum parts that had been sand-cast, because it held the sand in place; also porous castings could be sealed using Glyptal, to reduce and minimize oil seepage.

I always paint the inside of my engines with the stuff, and have never seen a flake of any kind.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair

t lange

Thanks for the information about Glyptal. I did some research, so now I understand the original thread.

Tom, you convinced me. As Dave Hill noted, Glyptal 1201 for engines and gearbox interiors.

I wonder if the foundry painted blocks and gearbox cases before they were shipped for final milling? Was Glyptal used as the final paint outside the castings also? Or were they painted with engine paint?

It's amazing how well that it has held up for 60 years inside the gearbox.

Moss UK description:
Glyptal Internal Engine Paint
Recommended by high performance engine rebuilding books, Glyptal seals the tiny ports left in metal after bead blasting leaving the engine block interiors smooth. Helps keep the oil clean and flowing freely. Acid and oil resistant.

Info from a Google search:

> The first commerciallized alkyd paint was Glyptal made by GE in 1926.

> Glyptal paints are made by heating phthalic anhydride and glycerin together. Still available today, glyptal is used in shellac, varnishes, and paints.

> It has been used as a European generic term for alkyd resins and as an alternative to the term “alkyd.”

> Manufacturer:
Glyptal, INC., 305 Eastern Ave Chelsea, MA 02150

> Product line
http://www.hisco.com/Search?categoryId=&filters=&sortby=84&page=1&pageSize=16&criteria=glyptal&view=list&columns=

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

'Was Glyptal used as the final paint outside the castings also? Or were they painted with engine paint?'

Good question Lonnie. I know the colour of the block has been thrashed out a hundred times before but even after pulling a couple of gearboxes apart it never occurred to me to question the colour of the interior. See pic below. The pic you've posted of the inside of the gearbox is very close to one of the generally accepted colours of the exterior of the block & box. That it's acid & oil resistant & been around since 1926 lends credence to this idea. Nice find. Cheers
Peter TD 5801




P Hehir

Different colour but--back a few years ago racing Chevs we painted the inside of the gearboxes and engine blocks with transformer paint which we got from the Hydro- It dried as hard as a rock with a slick black finish
easy to wash out and gave good oil return in the engine
Being transformer paint it was oil and heat resistant-----what brand, I don't know
Useless information but there you go--
willy
William Revit

Re: Glyptal -

I was wandering around Britsh Pathe videos today. A Morris video shows a red coating (Glyptal) inside a block. The outside of the block is being painted gray. Both were before milling. This implies that the outside of our MG engines were coated with paint, not Glyptal. See video at 3min:55sec:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWgni73XQ7M

Although TF9052 shows the oil pan and bell housing painted red (which I feel is correct), looks like Morris had bare oil pans and bell housings. See this 1930-1939 video at 16min:00sec.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxFemHWBHsE

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

Interesting observation Lonnie. I noticed all the nuts/bolts were still CAD too.
Christopher Couper

Having just cosmetically restored my TD engine, I was amazed how close the color of Glytal is to what Moss sells as TD engine paint. So I'm not surprised that someone asked whether the engine was painted with the same paint inside and out.
Lew Palmer

This last year has brought out a lot of new information on the TD and the TF as to things that were changed as the production moved forward.

The potential is the TD up to some point may have had a unpainted bell housing and glyptol on the transmission. It looks like this may have changed as most of the TF's appear to have been painted engine color over the engine, bell housing and transmission.

This is a potential as I would think MG looked at time of assembly and may have changed to having the engine, bell housing and transmission all together prior to painting. Just my thoughts, but it does fit into process improvement.
Bruce Cunha

This thread was discussed between 08/01/2006 and 02/05/2018

MG TD TF 1500 index

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