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MG TD TF 1500 - Toe-in tie rod adjusment

New tie rods, I had local shop "part" old ones with impact fork (he did it for free, counting on my future business). Mechanic warned me not to tighten/lock in nuts on new ones until toe-in adjusted correctly. Reading threads, they all refer to rolling/driving car forward for toe-in adjustment, and only refer to the threads on tie rod locknut(Moss#35), not the tie rod nut(Moss#48). Can toe-in be set with wheels off ground, on jackstands? It doesn't sound right to leave bolts un-tightened with weight on(except those new AA bushing bolts)...could he be incorrect?
Joe Walck

Joe.. You can leave the tie rods tightened up and then adjust the toe-in by turning the rod coming from the steering rack.There is a flat on the rod to fit a wrench. This is the tie-rod lock nut that you loosen. Just make cetain that the small clamp is loose on the bellows. The wheels have to be on the ground to set toe in
Sandy
Sandy Sanders

Joe, many of the new tie rod ends are too long and can't be adjusted properly. Search the archives- and compare the length of your old ones (center of the tapered central bolt) to outer end of the threaded barrel. George PS- the only thing you leave loose is the locknut. Tighten everything else, and adjust as Sandy says above.
George Butz

Thank you...Please note, I am asking about the nut on the tie rod bottom, can that be tightened now?, not the two(nut & locknut) from the steering boot. I will measure new and old.
Joe Walck

Measurement the same(see photo). Note nut on bottom is the one I wonder if I should tighten...what should be the torque? It's not castleated either, should I use old castle nut?


Joe Walck

Joe, the length sure looks the same in the photo- the problem I mentioned may have been corrected, or maybe your ends are really old NOS. Tighten the bottom nut- makes no difference with aligning or anything else. Is the new nut a self-lock- nylock or with the end rounded? Need to have something on there to keep it from loosening. If the threads same and a hole in the threads, I would use the castle nut. George
George Butz

A simple tool to check toe-in can be made froma piece of tubing (PVC or aluminum), a compression spring that will fit into the tubing, a wooden dowel rod and a cotter pin. The tubing should be a foot shorter than the distance between the wheels (not critical), drill a hole through the tubing to hold the cotter pin about one foot from one end, install cotter pin, drop thespring into the tubing and isert the dowel rod. Cut the rod so that there is just a little pressure when the device is inserted between tires. Put a piece of masking tape around the dowel a short distance from the end of the tube. Place the device between the tires towards the rear of the car as high as you can up to the chassis. Measure and record the measurement from the end of the tube to the tape. Roll the car foward with the device in place until the device is at the same height as it was for the first measuenment and again measure the distance from the end of the tube to the tape. The difference is your toe out or toe in.
C. H. Wolfe

Front axle alignment can only be done with the car on the ground. The following is a proceedure that is as accurate as your ability to read a tape measuer.

Checking/Setting Front Axle Toe-in

Toe-in can be easily checked on any automobile and with a little effort corrected to the required 1-mm plus or minus 1-mm or 1/32nd plus or minus 1/32nd. To complete the task you will need masking tape, a tape measure, preferably metric, a pen and an able helper.

You start by driving the car forward and backward on near level ground for at least 5 tire revolutions in each direction while fiddling with the steering wheel to ensure that the wheels are pointed straight ahead. The last step in this part of the process is to back the car to its starting point and stop the engine. Now, take your hands off of the steering wheel and have your helper push the car forward for about two tire revolutions. If the car tends to roll use the hand brake only to stop and hold the car in place.

The measurement phase consists of placing a piece of masking tape, about 2-3 inches long, at the rear of each tire. The tape should be place vertically near the center of the tire tread. Next, using your pen, place a small horizontal tick mark at the inner edge of each piece of tape. The tick marks should be as high off the ground as possible while still being able to have a clear line of sight from tick mark to tick mark. With the aid of your assistant, CAREFULLY measure the distance between the edges of the each piece of masking tape at their respective tick mark locations. Be sure that the tape measure does not touch any part of the underside of the car. Now, push the car forward, without touching the steering wheel, while carefully observing the masking tape. Stop the car, using the hand brake only, when the tick marks are as high off the ground as possible while having a clear line of sight between the tick marks. Remeasure the distance between the tape edges at their respective tick marks. Now, subtract the two measurements to obtain the toe value. If the distance measured at the rear of the tire is greater than the front, your front axle will be toed-in. It is easier to get an accurate measurement if you use the 100-mm or the 4-inch as the starting point because we are not interested in the actual distance but rather the difference between the front and rear.

This method of checking front axle toe is very accurate because you are measuring between the same two points on each tire while the points are at both the front and rear positions. Tire and wheel run out and tread pattern irregularities are accounted for.

If you find the your toe is out of specification you can make proper adjustments. Start by changing the front distance by one half of the error. Then push the car forward (never backwards) and remeasure the rear distance. Make a small toe adjustment if necessary, and repeat the entire process until you have reached the desired toe-in value. After you think that the toe is correct take the car for a short drive and repeat the measurement process.

Although time consuming, I can assure you that this toe measurement technique is at least as accurate, and more reliable than alignment shops offer. This is a direct measurement that does not rely on equipment calibration to ensure accuracy. If you want caster and camber measured/corrected or a four-wheel alignment on a modern car you must go to an alignment shop. Use the above method to check their work. You will be surprised! Have you ever noticed tire wear after 6-months of driving after an alignment, taken the car back and told that you must of hit a curb or a chuckhole. Sure
Frank Grimaldi

This thread was discussed between 26/06/2009 and 13/07/2009

MG TD TF 1500 index

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