MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - toe in adjustment

Folks, here is my issue.
I replaced the tie-rod ends many years ago and remember at the time I was not able to adjust the toe in sufficiently. I finally put on new tires and the tire shop could not aline the toe in because there was not enough thread on the tie-rod. I oredered new ends from Moss but they appear to be the same length as the old ones, ie. not enough thread to make the necessary adjustment because the female end is to long. So, are the thread ends that screw on the tie-rod to long? I can't extend the threads on the tie-rod because of the spanner flat. Do I simply take off the locking nut and go with out? That might give me another 1/2". Or is something else out of alignment?
Geoff Kimler

Yikes. If you want to crash and die, go ahead and drive without the locknuts. The thread will wear due to continual movement and eventually strip, with resulting no steering. For some years the available tie rod ends had female threaded parts that were too long, causing the problem you have. I thought that had been fixed, maybe not. Or something else could be wrong. Did you search the archives? This has been gone over a few years ago, I think with measurements and pictures.
George Butz

Geoff,
I wonder what the mechanics were trying to adjust to, the TD has zero toe-in.

Go out an check your alignment with a tape measure and adjust front and back identical. I err to the side of toe-in as toe-out can produce a nasty shimmy.

If you are still in need of more thread, you can consider heating the steering arms and bending them in towards the wheels, but this is a bit drastic if for an unmodified front end.
Jim Northrup

brakes and steering are the two things you want to do "right" . i also would not consider heating and bending too long before moving on to other options, but jim's idea does bring up another thought...are your front end components bent from a previous accident? perhaps you need other steering components. regards, tom
tom peterson

Wrong parts? MGA Rack? Tie rods?
-David
D. Sander

An outside possibility could be that the "Ball Housing" is not screwed all of the way into the end of the rack??? If this is not all of the way into the rack the tie rod end would have to take more of the thread to bring in the toe in??

SPW
STEVE WINCZE

Geoff'
Just to chime in. I recently replaced the tie rod ends I just purchased from Moss. If you have the right components and they are assembled correctly there should be plenty of room for adjustment. I can't say what is off on your car but reexamine each component and its assembly.
Don't give up or in.
Best of luck.
Mort
Mort 1950 TD Möbius

Gentlemen, thank you for your comments.
This is original 1952 Mk 2 and has not been in a crash of any sort. The mechanic took me down into the pit and we could see that the front wheel was not in alingnment with the rear. If I recall the left was more out than the right but now can't remember if the front of the tire was pointing out or in. The car drives straight but on groved concret roadway it wants to jump about! Scarry! And you are right I don't want to go with out the jamb nuts.
How does one go about checking the "ball houseing" is screwed in all the way? I do need to change the boots so can take things apart. I will call Moss first to check on length.
Is there a place that rebuilds the steering rack?
How else would the inside of the tire tread wear so drastically?
Geoff Kimler

geoff, remove the clamps holding the rack and pinion boots in place and slide the boot out of the way. you will have a view of the ball ends. i am not aware of any one who over hauls these steering mechanisms. could you post pictures? regards, tom
tom peterson

I will take a look at that probably Friday and take some carefull measurements of the tie rod ends. I will take pictures and then I will have talking points when I call Moss technical servies. Thanks, Geoff
Geoff Kimler

This is a picture of the Ball Housing unscrewed from the end of the rack...From an "A" rack, but very similar to a "T" Rack


STEVE WINCZE

The ball Housing is inside the "Rack Boot", shown on this link,,
http://www.dbraun99.com/mgtd15470/Steering/Steering%20Rack%20Refurbishment/slides/Steering%20rack%20before-1.html
STEVE WINCZE

Why not just cut off a 1/4' inch or so from the tie rod ends. I am pretty sure that this will not weaken them such that they will fail.

Frank Grimaldi
Frank Grimaldi

Are you sure your car hasn't been in an accident?
I had a similar problem and set about measuring the track road ends only to discover that one of the steering arms had been bent, this could only have been done deliberately. I had to find and fit a new one.

I measured the chassis and compared the figures to the WSM to find that the diagonals didn't match. I had to get the local shop to straighten it out. The new Moss track rod ends fit fine.

I set the alignment up as best I could by sticking a piece of tape around the circumference of the tires and carefully scribing a line down the back and front of each tire. I then measured the tracking at the front and back of the wheels. It seems to work out fine and looks OK but I have yet to get the alignment checked by the shop.

AJ




A R Jones

More pictures.

AJ


A R Jones

I am getting more puzzled by all this. I called a friend of mine and he pulled out 1/2 dozen of old and new ball joints and they all measured 3 1/2" long, total axial length and about 1 5/8" of threaded depth. Over the years I have owned the car I have seen no damage to front end components.
Does anyone of you have old original ball joints you could measure for me? I do not really want to go cutting and grinding until I solve the problem. Maybe the ball sockets have come unscrewed from the rack but I think this would be highly unlikely. I will check that.
These new ones I received from Moss (262-278) are made by TRW and my frined said they could be MGA and to check the thresds. Is the MGA unit the same length as the TD unit?
Geoff Kimler

I measured both a 15 year old replacement and an original from the center of the grease fitting to the outer threaded end- both are approx. 2-3/4"with a tape measure. Pretty hard to get to the outside diameter with it on the car. Also, the outside casting thickness could vary, etc. The Moss part # for A ends is different, so there must be something different. If the measurements for your new ones are the same as my original/old replacements (with plenty of adjustment available), something else is wrong. Unless you and only you have driven and serviced the car since new, you really don't know its total history. It could have smacked a curb or pothole and bent something with no other obvious damage. Have to carefully check the lower A arms, make sure the pivots are not bent or loose from the frame, check for loose/bent shocks and arms, etc. Then lastly the frame dimentions/diagonals as AJ suggests. George
George Butz

Geoff, My '53 TD has shortened tie rod ends because it has MGA front disk brakes and hubs. The previous owner, who had the car from 1957 until his demise six years ago, left some hand written notes for me about the shortened tie rods. When I install the new ones I have from Moss, I expect that I will have to shorten them first.

Regards,

Bobby Loughridge
B. F. Loughridge

Geoff,
This is getting more and more puzzeling,,, Just to clarify one point that I do not see in the thread,,,,
Is it BOTH sides of the car that you are unable to get the required adjustment to the tie rods????

One hint might be when you said,,,,,,
"If I recall the left was more out than the right but now can't remember if the front of the tire was pointing out or in."

Mabey the rack and tie rod ends were never "centered" in first place???? ie. the initial adjustment "way back when" was done whilst the rack was moved to one side, as in turning ????

Can you turn the steering wheel the same amount to either side from a srtraight ahead position??

SPW
STEVE WINCZE

another fyi---I just (about a month ago) replaced the tie rods on my '53 TD. They came from Moss and the fit was fine--no problems--my car appears to have an original undamaged front end----
TCK Tom

Good idea Steve. Moss technical person Ken called me back yesterday, Wednesday, so they are looking into it for me.
Tomorrow is my day off so I can jack the car up, cut away the boots and measure things out. Thanks for the measurement George. I will check that also.
With "0" toe in I sould be able to use a long 2x4 against front and rear tire to get them in line with each other, right?
Stay tuned.
Geoff Kimler

I don't think just a 2x4 would work too well,,,, I made up this jig,,



STEVE WINCZE

Rear wheel notes


STEVE WINCZE

Front wheel notes,,,


STEVE WINCZE

Goeff,
A long 2 x 4 will not work that well,,, as you will have to account for the difference in the smaller track of the front wheels as compared to the larger track of the rear wheels,,


SPW
STEVE WINCZE

Geof,
Drive the car straight and stop onto a flat surface, so the front wheels are pointed straight ahead.
Take a tape measure and measure distance between the front of the tires and then the back of the tires.
If you can adjust them to an equal measurement, you're done.
Jim Northrup

This thread was discussed between 03/10/2011 and 08/10/2011

MG TD TF 1500 index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG TD TF 1500 BBS is active now.