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MG TD TF 1500 - Three questions...

After having so many problems with my stock fuel pump on my TF 1500, I have decided to purchase a more modern unit.
!. What kind do most people install and where is the best place to install it?
2. I have heard of owners leaving the old pump in place. Is this wise and will it cause fuel delivery problems for the new pump?
3. Do most owners leave the in-tank fuel filter in place, or remove it and rely on an in-line filter elsewhere?



Cleve

Can't speak for "most" but mine has one like Moss part # 377-420 Solid State Electronic. Back up purchased considerably cheaper at Napa.
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=30838
It was located under center re-movable panel in boot for access. I moved mine slightly as I replaced my leaking wood back there with a single piece and sealed it. Also I did not care for the placement too close to hot exhaust for my taste! On frame just above inside of right rear wheel now. In-line filter at same location and in tank filter still in place.
My TF is a "little different in the boot":
http://www.ttalk.info/Sheward.htm
I could actually access the pump from inside the boot by removing one of the storage trays (maybe if it was cold & snowing?)....but easier just to take off right rear wheel and get to it that way. Just did this a few days ago to replace clogged filter and pump possibly contamanated gas out of tank. Whole job took less than 15 minutes.

You might want to wait and see what advise you get from those on BBS with a somewhat "normal" set-up!
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

Cleve - " I have decided to purchase a more modern unit." You can't get much more modern than SU pumps that are produced today. You can get them in either points configuration or all electronic (Hall effect dircuit) from Burlen Fuel Systems in Salisbury.

You have to realize that the pump in your TF has probably been in there for many, many years and is at the end of it's useful life. You are at the point where you will need to get a new pump or have the one you have restored by someone who is capable of rebuilding and adjusting it properly and testing it for proper operation. There are a number of pumps available on the market today that will work well in the TF. To name a few, there are Facet (they run all the time, and make a lot of noise), Carter (a very quiet impeller type of pump, Walbro (an impulse pump just like the SU), Moprod (solid state, using magnetic reed switch for triggering. They are an all plastic body and are prone to cracking over time) and, of course the above mentioned SU fuel pumps. all of these pumps are adaptable to the TF and will give good service for about the same length of time. I can take an old SU fuel pump like yours and turn it into a new looking, solid state pump that will also last about as long as any of the above listed pumps (problem is, that with shipping from and to the UK, it is not an good choice for you, economically). Other than Burlen Fuel Systems, I don't know of anyone in the UK who does fuel pump repair, so your choice may well be which pump to purchase outright.

For a TF 1500, I am not sure why someone would leave the original pump in place and pump through it. While there is no reason that it can't be done (all the pumps just use check valves that will pass fuel in the porper direction), but the original pump is mounted in a place where it can't be readly seen, so why leave the old one in place where the only thing it can contribute is to provide one more place where the system can leak.

I can't speak for most owners, but the in tank filter is fine as long as it is kept clean. I personally don't like filters in the inlet side of the pump when an impulse type of fuel pump is used because a clog on the inlet side (as in a blocked filter) will cause the pump to stall in a current on condition, causing the pump to overheat and burn out the internal swamping resstor that is part of the arc suppression circuit. This is just my own feelings, based on having to replace burned out swamping resistors in numerous pumps that I have restored over the past 30 years.

Finally, are your problems really a result of a worn out pump that is ready for restoration or retirement or might the problem be somewhere else in the fuel delivery system? For a guide to troubleshooting fuel delivery problems, see my article at: http://www.custompistols.com/cars/dave/ddFuelDeliveryTroubleshooting.htm
Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Hi,

I really like the 'Bremerton mans' knowledge on Fuel Pumps.Obviously a huge amount of experience and skill there.

Cleve,regarding Question (3),I agree with David and Dave,after checking the in tank filter,leave it in position.

Realising the problems associated with T-Types fuel tanks in relation to dirt,rust,'dried fuel flakes' etc.I had the current TF's fuel tank both pressure tested and thoroughly 'steam cleaned' by a reputable company here in Perth while restoring the car.Luckily this was done before final painting of the tank.Although the tank was a very sound original one,they found through the testing, a tiny hole on the bottom most seam.Fine welded this up as well as a thorough clean, and have'nt ever had any filth infusion to the pump.

I think I would get Dave D to restore your original TF1500 pump if you have ascertained this is the problem and put it back in the manufacturers position! Cheers
Rob. Grantham

Rob Grantham

The filter in the tank is a pretty basic one (if the same as the TD)...a little fine mesh brass tube enclosed at the open end... certainly isn't high tech, but strains out the 'big' stuff... As long as filters don't impede the flow, the more the better. I added a second one after the pump.... That gives me tank/pump/line filters.
gblawson - TD#27667

MY BAD:
"I personally don't like filters in the inlet side of the pump".....I failed to mention my "in-line" filter is on the "outlet side" of the pump as Dave D. says!
So to re-cap: Tank filter in place, "Clear in-line" after the pump, and also the 2 "on a spring filters" at the banjo fittings to carbs.
Sounds like overkill ...but when I had my clog a few weeks ago I could "see" nothing was getting through the clear one after the pump!
I am still not sure how I ended up without the ones in my carb inlets! (I lost one of the washers when I took the line off to "purge" it after my clog and this was when I noticed it was missing so ordered 2 new ones.)

Years ago when I first purchased my TF my carbs were a real mess...(after looking at them I was amazed the car ran at all!) SU gets a bad rap...I had a 1 float that was upside-down, 1 with a hole in it, both way out of adjustment,bent & clogged jets of assorted sizes (none right!) Since then I figured the small expense of filters was well worth it as opposed to re-building carbs again!
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

For all of you who were "smart" like me and sealed your tank interior many years ago when the only sealer available was an aircraft sealer, be prepared for the other shoe to fall. With the new fuel formulations, the aircraft sealer is begining to desolve and addes a new demension to fuel delivery problems. I originally thought that the fuel pump in our TD had died, then found that the Gross jets in the carburetors were sticking and blamed it on bad Gross jets. I have now found that the desolved sealer adding a very sticky component to the fuel in the tank. If the car is parked for as little as an hour, either the needle vlaves in the carbs or the check valve disks in the fuel pump will stick in position and I am reduced to beating onthe float bowls and/or the fuel pump to jar them loose so I can drive home. The tank is now drained and will be taken to a stripper to get all of the sealer (and paint, unfortunately) removed. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

To all,
I am here in the States, so all of the mentioned pumps are an option. Thanks!

David DuBois,
Glad you mentioned the sealer. The next step for me is to put a sealer in the tank. I was considering the product sold by Eastwood. What would you recomend?
What is the best solution for cleaning the tank without dipping it? (I don't want to ruin my paintjob)
Cleve

This will be interesting...had mine done two years ago...haven't noticed any 'goop' yet!
gblawson - TD#27667

David I used the aircraft sealer in my TD and had the same problem with it coming loose after picking up some fuel with ethanol in the states. Bill
Bill Mason

Don't let Dave fool you. He is the SU Guru. I think it says "Fuel Pumps R Us" over his garage.
Bruce Cunha

Bruce - Actually it says "MG Parking Only -All Others Will Be Towed or turned into a Triumph" Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Cleve, I did my tank a couple of years ago using a product called POR15. They sell complete kits for cleaning/sealing. After removing my tank I decided to have it painted, but if you're careful it shouldn't be necessary.
Bob Farnam

This thread was discussed between 25/08/2006 and 28/08/2006

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