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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - TF Factory Production Records Available Online

Just to let you all know we at the MG Car Club T Register have just added the TF Factory Production Records to our website, http://www.tregister.org

They are accessible from the 'Production Records' option from the main menu of the site, or from the following link: http://www.tregister.org/factoryrecords.aspx

Typing in your full TF chassis number - e.g. TF4044 - will bring up a record containing its build date, its original engine number, and the car number, which gives further details about the car. Beneath the record I have included a link to a key to decipher the car number (it holds details about export information, original colour etc).

The TD records are hand-written documents that are not yet computerised, but they will be added to the site when they become so.

All the best,
Steve
tregister.org
S James

Hi Steve,

Many thanks for posting the link to the "TF Factory Production Records"... I have also sent a sort e-mail to you in reference to the subject...

Cheers mate,

Rod Macleod - TF HDB46/6798 (My wee "Molly")

Rochester Hills, Michigan, USA
Rod Macleod

That's interesting.

My car, TF10030, was made on the last day of production (4 April 1955), which is interesting to me because the car # isn't all that close to the last one (TF10100). Looking through the records, a lot of cars with higher numbers had earlier completion dates. And the engine numbers seem to be distributed on the principle that the builders would grab the first available.

I'm going to have to go through the records and try to figure out how many cars came of the line on that day.

Thanks for making this available.
Mark B.

Steve:

Thanks for making this info available. Helps in completing the history on the car. Is there any other source that may note where the cars were destined to go after production...in other words a specific state or dealer as in the case of those shipped to the US?

I'm trying to fill in the blank period from the production date to when my folks got the car in 1960.

Another question that arises (and may have already been discussed somewhere on this BBS) is the model year designation. We've always referred to our car as a '55. It's been registered from the beginning as a '55 (and recently registered in Calif. again as a '55) but the production date is in September '54. With US car manufacturers it's very common to have a new model year produced and sold in the latter part of the previous year...but not sure if this was done with the MG's. Can anyone shed any light on this? It's definately a TF1500 with the XPEG engine..but is it a '55 or technically a '54? Would there be any other aspect to consider for making that determination?

Cheers!

Jim

TF7022
XPEG852
Jim Rice

Steve...
Am really interested in the 'history' of the TD records... how did they come to be saved, who would have made hand written ones, etc?
Is there a website or info on the destruction of all the factory records? Have heard lots of stories, but no actual facts (like someone climbing into a dumpster and rescuing the 'M' records)?
gordon lawson

Mark, that is so cool about your TF. I can't wait to hear how many cars were made on the last day. I'm also pretty excited about the TD info appearing on line. What a monumental task to transcribe those handwritten records for 29,000 cars!

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Is there anything any of us can do to help with the TD material.... send us copies and we input data? Pretty certain that some of us 'old' guys who have no social life might have a bit of time! (or those of us with insomnia)!
gordon lawson

Let me add my thruppence worth.

Very grateful for this info Steeve, However I think equally interesting, would be the consignees names and destination. Surely this must be available?? It would help those trying to trace the origins of their car to the port of destination and perhaps even the dealer. For instance in 1951 to about 1957, in Canada, there was no central distribution like Hambro in the US, and cars were often consigned directly to the dealers. Both Montreal and Toronto for example, have inland deep-sea ports, and I can recall going down to the docks and oogling at the rows and rows of MGs, XK140s, Mark 7 Jags, Sunbeams, etc. In the case of Montreal, they were consigned to Toledo Motors (later Cooke-Toledo) and in Toronto they would have been consigned to Cook Motors or Jim Ferguson.

Also, with reference to Mark B's. comment, I too, am curious to know how many of each model were made daily.

From what little I know, its may not be possible to get a serious grip on this data, as Magnettes were assembled on a sister line alongside the TFs, and when there was a parts shortage (or other reason) for one line, the assemblers would switch over to the other line, and the first line would stop. And like the overlap of production of the MGA and the MGB, there may have been some production overlap of the TF1500 and the MGA, as supplies of lingering parts and chassis were being depleted.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A. Clark

Hey chap, I have plenty of computer power and plenty of wake time (now that I'm on 24hr oxygen)so I am more than willing and able to help! Just contact me and tell me what I can do. Great job you chaps are doing. I can still have a we nip of Sheep Dip.
Greg & Grimm
G.J. Cenzer

Steve J.,

Thanks for the info. alert on the TF Factory Records.

Fantastic!

Rob. Grantham.
ROB. GRANTHAM

Great info. Was interested to see my TF was built March 11, 1954. Me March 30, 1954. I have a habit of telling everyone the car and I are the same age. Now I have proof. Wish I had the history between 1954 and 1978.

LaVerne
LED DOWNEY

Jim Rice,
Indded a subject that has been disscused here before! Back in "the day" (50's) many of these cars were "dated" when they were "sold / titled" instead of when they were "made"! So it is not unsual for the dates to be off. According to British Motor Heratige Trust records my TF was "built" October 11&12th 1954, shipped October 13th 1954, but was titled as a "1955". For some reason (unknown to me) some of their records show where the cars were being shipped to (dealer) whilst others (mine included) do not show this info!

I believe a few years ago when this subject had come up there was one owner that had a TF that had sat at a dealer and was actually titled as a "1959 MG TF"! Although I have always just gone with the "55" my records show it was made in "54".

Brings up a good point ....I don't think my parents got a birth cert for me untill I was 5 and went to enroll in school so would that make me a "later model" ! LOL
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

David:

Thanks for the input. I think I'll stick with the '55 designation unless someone has a real compelling reason or factory information that would counter my referring to the TF as a '55.

Cheers!

Jim
Jim Rice

Jim said- "With US car manufacturers it's very common to have a new model year produced and sold in the latter part of the previous year." This is true but the cars are now all sold as whatever model the manufacturer calls them as a model. If manufactured in Oct 2005, it sells as a 2006 model immediately, whether in the first year i/e 2005, or now 2006.
Periodically models are even introduced in the late spring of a year with the following year model designation.
There was a period in many states as David said when the dealers titled them at time of sale, even a couple of years later.
Knowing the actual date of manufacture can be very important when replacing parts, or conforming to original specifications due to production line changes.
I guess one can call the car any year they want to - the general public is going to think it’s a kit car anyway. ;>)
Dallas Congleton

I fought with the BMV in Ohio for weeks over my vin number being wrong on the title..../7427 and not "17427" as it was on the title! Back and forth with all the books showing there was never a mgtf with this serial number.
Amusing that what they finally "accepted" as proof was for me to take the vin plate off the car and take it to them (picture was not good enough because "pictures can be alltered") ...I sure was not going to be the one to tell them you can buy a "blank vin plate"! LOL
About a week later I got my cert from the BMHT showing that the car was actually a "1954" ....I was not about to go through another battle royale with them, so I just live with it and call the old girl a "55". It makes her feel young!...besides by then I had secured an Ohio Historical plate and had a European style one made both for :
"TF 1555"
When asked "who built yer' kit car and what year is it buddy" ..I simply reply "Some dudes in Abingdon called the pannel bashers in October of 1954".
Cheers,
David TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

Thanks for the kind comments - glad you have found the information useful. I attach a general reply to some of the comments raised from my father John James, the Editor of the T Register's bi-monthly publication, Totally T-Type:

"The TD Production records we hold are (as in the case of the TF records) the manuscript ones completed in the Factory. They are currently being computerised by Roger Furneaux, who, we understand, is already halfway through the task. These are the only TD and TF records we hold (apart from our Register of known surviving cars).

"We have no records of specific dates or dealer to be able to tell us where the cars were sold after production (except for the broad "Export" designation). We wish we had more, but we don't!

"There is a lot more information for Triple-M cars but only because this information (in the form of a chassis file for each car) was rescued from a rubbish skip by Mike Allison.

"In general the year of production would signify the model year designation so a September '54 production date would be a 1954 model. Some cars took months to sell!"
S James

I think the James' family are to be really congratulated on providing this information!

I did a quick transcribe of the last 100 TFs into Excel and it is very difficult to work out any kind of logic of production. Best I could come up with is that chassis nos were pre-allocated to 'destination' (Export RHD, North America LHD etc) in batches and then these batches were built to an external ordering system, so you can find LHD and RHD models being built on the same day. This would explain why chassis number is not a key to date built.

There are just 3 UK models in the last 100 cars ... how times have changed!

Regards

David
David Wardell

"I think the James' family are to be really congratulated on providing this information!"
Absolutly...and not just for this most recent effort making this info so easy for everyone to find!
Years ago when I purchased my TF I sent off to the BMHT for cert to ensure engine was indeed the original 1500. (this was part of my contract with the broker I bought the car from, that it would be the correct engine). The 1st cert I got from BMHT had the wrong engine number on it! Before it (cert) arrived John James had sent me an email confirming the "correct number". BMHT had made a typo on the 1st cert they set me and did send a second one with the correct info. (I have both of them)
Had it not been for Mr. James I would have no doubt backed out of the deal and would not have "Izzy" today! (a long strange story involving my car changing hands several times "after" I purchased it from ebay!)
This most recent "searchable" data base is a great tool for anybody considering the purchase of one of these cars! IMHO of particular intrest to anyone looking at a TF1500 that wants to be certain it always "was" equiped with the correct XPEG engine. With bonnet badges, reflectors, vin and engine plates being traded daily on ebay and sold from various sources at very reasonble prices a "1500" has become something too easy to "fake"!
The info on this BBS (location of "stamped" numbers on the block) and this searchable data base are great tools for those in our hobby having some peace of mind concerrning just what they are buying.
Cheers, Best Regards, and Thank You!
David 55 TF1500 #7427

David Sheward

James...thanks for all your efforts on getting the TF database online. I had determined by some devious method that our car TF6688 was built around the 14 Aug 54. It was however built on the 12th of Aug.
By punching in a series of numbers you can figure out how many cars they were producing on a given build day.
In the case of our TF6688, it appears that it was built in batch of cars between TF6678 and TF6715, at a daily production rate of 37 cars....WoW!
I often wondered how many of these things they actually built in a day, and now we know.

Colin Stafford

Hello, Colin

I may have looked at too small of a sample, but it looks to me like that they didn't put out a batch of TFs every weekday. It looks to me like that they let the cars pile up in the receiving area for a few days, then they filed the paperwork for a batch all together. If I had a copy of the database, I could do a group by date query to confirm this theory. I don't really want to retreive every record individually, but I guess I could if I were dedicated enough.

Since there were about 10,000 TF produced in 2 years, that would be about 100/wk. Thirty-seven would be an above average workday, but plausible.
Mark B.

Mark, it looks like they did somthing weird.

Cars 6678 thru 6715 were built on 12 Aug

Car 6677 was built on 09 Aug
Car 6716 was built on 16 Aug

So, from the 9th thru the 16th only built 37 cars. I guess they may have hit a weekend and the August Bank Holiday for a week off......or they stopped for TEA.
Colin Stafford

Does anyone have info on where this info on TD's might be found?

George Herschell
George R Herschell

Since several people have expressed an interest in how many TFs were produced on a certain day, I have produced the following graph from the data (it's very long, so you'll have to use the horizontal scrollbar to scan along):

http://www.tregister.org/tfgraph.html

I've highlighted what I believe to be the weekends (inferred from 5 days on, 2 day offs periods) in red. Average daily production seems to be that reported above, i.e. around 40 cars. I'm sure there are experts here that can analyse the chart better than I can!

All the best,
Steve
S James

Did they not work a six day week...seems each week there was a day that had double the production which could be the cars built on the Saturday and added???
gordon lawson

"I fought with the BMV in Ohio for weeks over my vin number being wrong on the title..../7427 and not "17427" as it was on the title! Back and forth with all the books showing there was never a MGTF with this serial number.
Amusing that what they finally "accepted" as proof was for me to take the vin plate off the car and take it to them (picture was not good enough because "pictures can be alltered") ...I sure was not going to be the one to tell them you can buy a "blank vin plate"! LOL
About a week later I got my cert from the BMHT showing that the car was actually a "1954" ."

David,

I had the exact same situation. Our 1955 TF #7271 was titled many years ago as 17271. They wanted a "tracing" of the plate. It wouldn't show up so I unbolted it took it to 'em.

Now thanks to the excellent link above, I finally find that our TF was built in Sept 1954. I plan to leave it titled as a '55 & run a 1955 Tennessee "state shaped" tag.
Carl Floyd

Cool.
Now I know that my TF (7452) and my wife share a birthday. Like so many others, my TF was built in 54, shipped tothe U.S,sold in 55 and titled as a 55. In my case the state used the engine number on the registration certificate.
Michael
Michael Munson

My 54 TF5928 is a rhd model and only recently imported via New Zealand. I wonder what was used to determine which cars on the production lines were given the right or left designation. Were they done in groups or singled out?

31 May 1954 TF5928
M Whitt

RHD and LHD cars were built to order. A dealer would place an order for so many cars and production was started.

The LHD and RHD chassis were quite different, so the only determining factor was how many RHDs chassis do we grab today, and how many LHDs; despite the fact that they both came down the same assembly line.

I understand however, that with the MGA, this changed.

Anybody out there really know?

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.

Gordon A. Clark

Update from tregister.org on the Production Records, and notice of a Register publication of interest to TF owners:

"The TF Factory Production Records were recently uploaded on to the Register website. Subsequently, TD/TF Technical Adviser and long time TF1500 owner, Barrie Jones, noticed a few inaccuracies in the data. These must have occurred when the manual records were computerised. The corrected records have now been uploaded on to the website and we apologise for any inconvenience caused."

"The Register still has copies of Barrie’s book entitled “Barrie’s Notes” and subtitled “Maintaining a 1955 MG TF in the 21st Century”. This is priced at £6 plus postage and can be ordered online from the Register’s Regalia section - see http://www.tregister.org/regalia.aspx#BARNTS - with your credit card using PayPal."

"We are making good progress with the preparation of the TA/B/C and TD/TF Registers for uploading on to the website and we expect to be able to complete this task in the next few days. The system is currently being tested by Register Committee Members. Watch this space!"
S James

Thank you Steve for the update, we appreciate your dedication to the preservation of the marque!
M Whitt

This thread was discussed between 29/07/2006 and 08/08/2006

MG TD TF 1500 index

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