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MG TD TF 1500 - TF 1500 Paint Color

Entering the painting stage in the restoration of a TF 1500 #9622. The car left the factory as MG Red and was later painted Autumn Red in the early 60's. The Autumn Red was an official factory color. I am trying to find a modern day, generally availble Autumn Red match. Any suggestions?
Thanks
Tim Moylan

Nothing comes to mind Tim. I found that the color numbers listed on the "Original TF" web site are not much good today for having the paint shop do a mix for you. Somebody on the board here may have done one recently and could give you the formula. Short of that you can head to a good paint supplier and start looking at paint chips. Be sure to take them out in the sunlight and have them mix a small batch that you can shoot on something before you buy a full gallon.

LaVerne
LED DOWNEY

Am also looking for Autum Red (for the Wolseley)... a similar colour is starting to show up on modern cars, but is metalic and in the sun has a bronze look... Autumn Red was a beautiful maroon. I'm told the mix is still available from auto paint shops and is listed under Rover Colours/1955 mgtf


gblawson(gordon)

LaVerne's idea is correct. With my recent TD restoration, I went through the whole paint thing, mainly that all of the available codes used pigments that have been discontinued (lead, cyanide, etc.). The replacement pigments don't work. I spent a while going through PPG paint books, picked two choices and had some sprayed out, and ended up using a 2004 Range Rover green, which I feel is very close to the original Woodland Green. Of course everyone says "nice British Racing Green" and I just thank them! It was one of the few without metallic, which makes your selection a little limited. You can always start with something and have it tinted, the disadvanage is that you then have a non-standard color. George
George Butz

I wonder if Bud can start a color reference chart on T-Talk? If so, we need to submit our ideas for colors and let him create a matrix...

What do you think, Bud? Interested?

For Ivory I nominate PPG's Deltron DBU3769

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

I appreciate the suggestion, but take a look at http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_finishes.htm#formulas
BTW, I have the Martin-Senour Autumn Red on Lazarus.
Bud Krueger

What would be a good tool is a cross reference between the original colors and a modern equivalent, such as Dave's PPG Deltron DBU3769, and the formulae for the color. The original formulas are of no real use anymore as modern paints are of such different chemical composition.
I used DuPont paint and have the modern formula for Ivory (Creme)if any one needs it.
D C Congleton

I agree with Dallas. The paint codes Chris Couper lists on his site comes with the following note:

"Note: Many of the color numbers listed on this page are no longer formulized. Some of the codes may in fact not actually come back with a good match if the code is still current. I would suggest using these codes only as a starting point and check various formulas against each other before you commit to a given color for your car."

I was suggesting a new list of colors that people have actually used that would be readily available (for now!) as a resource for people trying to paint their cars.

The formulation of the Ivory I nominated-
Deltron DBU3769 is called 'Yellow Beige' and is
DMD663 White 905.2
DMD642 Yellow 176.9
DMD648 Wk Black 37.0
DMD640 Yellow 16.4
DBX695 Clear 172.8

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Hi:
I was at a print trade show a few years back and met a chap, at an ink booth, who got his training in the auto paint business in England back in the day (ink and paint have similar components). He said: that the reason that the original English paint colors could not be duplicated was due to quality control – or rather the lack of it in English paints of the ‘50s and ‘60s. Color pigments are ground to specific size measured in microns. The English would grind their pigments to correct size but would leave the finer “dust” in . . . American and modern manufactures vacuum the dust out leaving only the correct size pigment. This is the reason that “true’ British Racing Green (and red) look like they have a brown base under the paint when viewed in bright sunlight.
True or not I don’t know as I am only reporting what he said but if it is true it just adds one more bit to MG lore. Knowledgeable comments appreciated.
Godspeed in Safety Fast
Jc
John Crawley

I visited my paint guy today and went through his 'big book'...we found Rover and in the listings was 'Autumn Red' - 1954-1965 - RD06 - ICI 2145

This is a slightly different ICI number then shows up on the MGTF website under 'details', however, it may be the new colour number for the same colour. I have ordered a spraycan of it ($28.00) and will do a few small parts to see if it is the same as that TF colour i posted below!!!
He mentioned that it was $100.00 qt.
gblawson(gordon)

Interesting comment John. I have seen a few TFs over the years which still had some factory red paint, and the paint always had a hint of brown, something I hardly ever see in restored cars.

Cheers,
Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

I would like the formula thatMr Congelton had for Ivory
l michel

Tim, my 51 TD was originally Autumn Red and I went through the same problem trying to find a formula. My painter finally used a sample from on old touch-up can of Autumn Red that Moss use to make. The paint shop scanned it and came up with a pretty good match. I believe there are some pictures of a couple of my panels in the archives.

Regards,
Rich
Richard Taylor TD3983

I will still harken back to the article by Hal Kramer in the June 1996 TSO.

In this, he carefully analyzed the original factory colours and these are described with the BMC, PPG, DuPont, R-M, and Martin Senour paint numbers provide on the inside back cover of the (article) reprint that I have.

In 1951, the TD was available in both 'MG Red' and Autumn Red. The later TDs were in MG red only, and the TFs in Autumn Red only. For the record, the PPG numbers are 71993 for MG Red, and 50930 for Autumn Red.

Incidentally, there are several threads in the archives on this topic. For someone serious, its worth looking up.

He also mentions the laquer numbers and although illegal to now transport laquer paint (because its considred explosive), there are a couple of suppliers still left, but you have to personnaly fetch the paint as they won't ship it.

If anyone wants these paint numbers, contact me.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A Clark

Tim, here is my rear splash apron in the sunlight. It looks quite a bit darker in person and when light is not hitting on it.



Richard Taylor TD3983

This thread was discussed between 25/10/2008 and 01/02/2011

MG TD TF 1500 index

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