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MG TD TF 1500 - TD paint delemna

Okay, so I go down to my local professional automotive paint supplier that I've used for many years and give them the paint codes for Cream and SSG for Dupont and PPG As supplied by Christpher Coupers site.
The Cream comes back as a !962 GM color with no mixing formula available. Fine, they say bring in a sample to color match. Problem is TD4834 originally painted cream has no good color left on her. I figured the sides of the fuel tank behind the side panels or inside the headlight buckets would be my best chance for descent color that wouldn't be sun bleached. Well no luck to that or any other panels as they have all had multiple color layers over them. The SSG has the same issue and was my preferred paint choice. Is there any one who has or knows the actual mixing formulas for either of these in Dupont or PPG or even Seymour if I can find a dealer for them? Does any one have left over touch up paint that they can flash onto a piece of tin and send it to me? Does anyone in the Sacramento CA region have a part or left over paint that I can spray a piece of sheet metal so the retailer can do a manual color match? I figure it would take 1 1/2 gallons of un-thinned basecoat to cover all the necessary areas on a disassembled car. Is that too conservative? should I order more? I really need some advice/help

Thanks in advance

Bill
W. A. Chasser Jr

Bill I cannot give you paint no/code but I can tell you when my shop sprayed my TD they used 1 gallon and nothing left (PPG paint ) All parts individual sprayed .

Gerard
Gerard Hengeveld

I spent a lot of time last winter trying to update all those colors with paintref.com and thought it was done. Apparently not.

Anyway this San Diego company claims they have formulas for all the british colors. I noticed there web site is down now but perhaps it will be back up later or you can call.

http://www.tcpglobal.com/Auto-Color-Library/

Get at least two gallons. There are always issues.
Christopher Couper

I guess with the changing nature of paint technology it does not hurt to get a sample and do a test panel. It would save ending up with a clanger that you may not be happy with.

Matthew.
M Magilton

Bill I could supply the code from my car off the can.
(AND a chuck of it that fell off the other day ...if I didn't throw it out yet.)
I am not sure how close to "real ivory" it is though.
It matches very well the Ivory I found when I recovered the side curtain box lid.
(I was told years ago by a gent that worked in the factory they sprayed the tool box lid on TF's on that piece before it was covered...and did find ivory "shadow" there.)
My car was a brighter "yellow" when I bought it, but went with color match from the tool lid outline I found.

Now, the odd thing is, according to my vin & paper work from BMHT, my TF was Red when built.
Confused yet? I know I sure was!

The color on the TF now is a good match to the bonnet on Tom's TC I have in my garage now. Just in case you weren't confused enough! LOL


David Sheward 55 TF1500 # 7427

20+ years ago, when I discovered that Lazaus' original color was Autumn Red, I found that Paints Unlimited in North Carolina could replicate the color from Sherwin-Williams bases. The Martin-Senour number for SSG shown on Chris Couper's site is a valid M-S number from about 20 years ago. You might see if you can locate them. Bud
Bud Krueger

To replicate Ivory I used PPG's DBU (DBC) 3769 Yellow Biege which is indeed an early GM color. Some say it is too yellow, you could mix up a half pint and test spray it.

Service counters do not have all the mixing information available. If they contact PPG directly they can get the formula. PPG never throws anything away.

Warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

Thanks everyone for your information Dave I will gladly accept a chunk of paint for a color match sample How do I private mssg you on this site to give you my information? I will gladly pay postal expense.

Christopher, I fired off an email to tcpglobal to see what they come up with. I gave them all the paint codes you listed for both the Ivory and SSG. Keeping fingers crossed. You mention on your site that the wheels were painted a straight silver color. My restored wheels have a greenish iridescence to them and I'm wondering if this may be the SSG or the valve cover paint described in your Finishes section I will Post a picture here later this morning as it is 5 am here and the sun is still below the horizon.

thanks again everyone'''

Cheers
W. A. Chasser Jr

The greenish cast is from older clear coats that were often put on silver painted objects by owners
Christopher Couper

Thanks Christopher
W. A. Chasser Jr

David, do you still have the ivory paint chip??
W. A. Chasser Jr

The direct match for the Ivory colour on my '50 TD is Ford's truck colour called Colonial White. It was a direct match for the original colour found on the car.

I can provide the colour code if you need it.
C.R. Tyrell

I'll take any and all #s CR
W. A. Chasser Jr

Sorry Bill ...just saw this after seeing your other post...not sure if the chip is out there ...but will look.
David Sheward 55 TF1500 # 7427

We've been through this a few times and it seems that we're always having a hard time pinning down the "original" ivory color.

One fellow I ran across had matched the white body piping that Moss had sent him. I didn't care too much for the result, but that's a personal thing.

IMHO, at this point you'll be hard pressed to paint a car that will look exactly like the factory original paint color or that anyone would be able to tell you in a scientific way or even from dim memory that it is exactly like the color of the new car they bought in the 50's. Especially since modern paints will be used and tend to have their own "look." I think the only thing we can definitively say is that it certainly isn't a bright, blue white and should be more a yellowish or off white.

Since, again IMHO, the result will only be an approximation no matter what you do, choose what looks good to you.

Personally, I'm going to use Ford Wimbledon White. A friend has an E-Type that color and I think it will look great on a TD. Plus it is a "standard," easily obtained color identified by a relatively stable paint code. In another thread, someone said that he used Ford Wimbledon White to touch up what he believed was the original paint on his car and that it matched fine. There are a few other Ford whites that you might like-- Corinthian White and Colonial White are a couple of examples. Be careful, though, some of the paint codes get mixed up depending on the year of Ford car you're looking at! You should be able to find numerous examples on the web, and perhaps at your local car clubs, of vehicles painted this color.

I doubt that anyone seeing my car in that color will be able to tell me it is definitely "wrong" or that I would have concours points deducted for it (provided I cared about such a thing).

It is your car, of course, and you should do what you like. I just think this search for a Holy Grail of the absolute definitively correct ivory white is, in the end, fruitless.
David Littlefield

I know there has been lots of debate on just what is the correct color for "Ivory Cream" and I went through the exact process when I was attempting to buy the paint for my TD. My paint store eventually contacted the PPG color library at their headquarters, who reportedly has all of the old color swatches, and they came back with a mix formula. I can't speak to whether this is the correct color as my car was in primer when I bought it, but it does nearly duplicate the color remaining on the old gas tank side panels (I sprayed half of one to check the match)and it matches the fender welting which the previous owner had purchased 15 years ago. The picture is what my paint supplier used to mix my paint (PPG).

Don


don scott

Bill, I had my car resprayed from Red back to its original Ivory in 1971. See pic attached. As I had to respray some panels due to storage damage I had acrylic laquer accurately colour matched in spray cans. If you're interested I can supply the formulae or post you a swatch when I paint the front apron in a few weeks. I also have pics of about a dozen Ivory cars from all over the world, albeit of differing shades. Though difficult to tell from these pics (light & printing ink being what it is) I believe Dave Sheward, Bill Brown, Norm Lewis (a mate here in Sydney) & CMA Adams have also achieved the correct original shade. I agree that Dave Braun's is a little too yellow. The car on the cover of Horst's book is way, way too white. White was not an original option. Good luck with your search. The original M.G. Ivory is a great colour! Cheers
Peter TD 5801


P Hehir

We have two threads going on this, so going to repeat this here for those that may be looking through the archives down the road:
My TF with the bonnet from Tom's 48 TC on back of the car.
Florescent lighting and day light with garage door open in "Day" shot.
We know very little on the history of the TC so no idea if this is "original" paint or not.
The wings and fenders were definitely re-painted a dark brown at some point, but looking at it my guess was they were not removed from the car to do so. There is Ivory/Yellow paint at bottoms of the wings where panels were left in place.
Shadows and angles make a difference...but if I put some polish to the TC panels I am amazed how close in coloure they are.



David Sheward 55 TF1500 # 7427

Thanks again guys your all a great bunch of people.
I have narrowed my search down to the ivory color. I made a request to tcpglobal with no response. I agree that anything in todays paints will likely be a compromise, the question is how much?

Peter thank you for the image of you car. If you are going to spray soon would you please make a pass on on a piece of tin or something suitable and I will have at least a swatch to go from if dons PPG formula can no longer be mixed. Our problem here and especially in California are all the namby pamby's that have hog tied us and our hobby. In my area we can not get acrylic lacquers anymore and haven't for many years now, the synthetic enamels are going to be gone soon as well and all we will be left with is water base enamel. Come on people , I'm restoring a car not a bathroom!

Don I am going to run to my PPG supplier tomorrow and find out if your formula is a valid one now, given how many changes have come about.

Dave I will also look into the Wimbleton White. What year does that correlate with. I'm asking because GM may use the same name for a color for several years yet the formulas changed. I found that out the hard way when I tried to restore my muscle car and they mixed paint that was a year off and it wasn't even close. i'm thinking ford may have also
W. A. Chasser Jr

D Sheward, I read what was on the other thread but I will Respond here to try to keep it together. I can still get both those products in CA. Send me what you can, when your PC is back up My e mail salsburyrocketman at yahoo dot com I think we are close to getting this done When you spray clear your gun on something suitable and I'll pay for shipping

Peter same offer to you

and again thanks
W. A. Chasser Jr

Bill;

Ford Colour Code YY-9M - 6210 - Colonial White

Any paint supplier can provide this in any type of paint. I used single stage Polyurethane, because I drive my cars often.

Enclosed a picture of the car. The colour was a perfect match to the original colour found on the car.


C.R. Tyrell

Bill, I just spoke to my paint supplier here in Sydney, Automotive Colour Equipment & they are emailing me the details. If you email me at pjbm (at) bigpond.com I'll pass the details on. I believe it is a DuPont colour & the code is PF-322. I also have an empty colour matched Spray Max can from Germany which was used for my paint & it may work as a swatch. I'll cut it open & if so, I'll then send you a small piece. Otherwise I'll be spraying a couple of panels in the next few weeks. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Thank you C.R. for the paint code and the shot of your car. She's a beauty!

Peter, I'm not in a big rush as I'm going to start working the old paint down, priming bare spots and wet sanding again. That should occupy my time for several weeks. Before I'm ready to mix a base coat. Don't rip apart a can for me and ruin something I can wait til you spray and get a swatch when you clean out your equipment.

This weekend I have someone coming down from WA to purchase one of my vintage Salsbury Scooters (built by Northrop Aviation after WW II). That will clear the way for the majority of my restoration funds for this car. Can't wait to blow it all on paint upholstery, hood and curtains, powder coating and plating of all the bolts nuts and screws. Plus need to make a final choice on a rear end. to replace mine junk one.

Regards Everyone
W. A. Chasser Jr

Bill,
Power supply got here yesterday for my external hard drive!
Here is code I recorded:





David Sheward 55 TF1500 # 7427

Thank you Dave
W. A. Chasser Jr

Bill I just received this from my supplier:

"Hi Peter, please see formula below for Dupont Ivory Cream PF-322

AM1 533.8

AM7 576.6

AM81 618.3

AM70 626.4

AM84 627.2

AL145 1000.0

This formula is for 1Lt in Dupont Lucite 400 Acrylic Lacquer."

Hope this helps Bill. Maybe you could get a sample made of this formula & see what you think. (The can I was going to tear apart was just an empty spray can.) Cheers
Peter TD 5801



P Hehir

I have found the Ford Colour Code YY-9M - 6210 - Colonial White in a Glasurit colour book.

I have an original BMC colour book that shows the original Ivory as well as all the other colours.


The image is not good but you can clearly see that Ford Colour Code YY-9M - 6210 - Colonial White is in fact a white and the original is cream.

Maybe the Ford colour is described wrong or someone has referenced the wrong code or numbers, but it clearly shows that the Ford Colour Code YY-9M - 6210 - Colonial White is no where as cream as the original BMC paint shade.

I have parts from many Ivory TF's and they are all close to the colour chip in the BMC book. I have restored 9 TF's in ivory so have allot of reference material available. Ivory was British Standard Code YL5. As far as I can help with USA paints it was once referenced as PPG 81444.

From the BMC book I have opened up the red, grey, blue, @ green to show as a reference.

I realise I am dealing with the originality aspect and are fully aware owners will paint in a shade that they prefer even if it is not the factory correct colour.


Rod Brayshaw

To all those who helped me with paint chips as samples for my car, Thank you. After further inspection I found a usable sample from a rear wing that wasn't exposed to the elements under the fender welting after a quick polish and waxing I took the fender to my local paint jobber in Sacramento (Jerry's Paint and had them do a visual blend that came out perfect. Thanks to Lucky for a great eye as he has been doing this for many years and is quite skilled at his craft. I now have 2 gals on hand to have plenty for touch ups and the formula also.

The body panels sans the tub have been plastic bead blasted and direct to metal epoxy primed in white as that was the card stock color that the test color was sprayed against. The panels are being massaged this weekend and the hope is I can get color and clear coat on by this evening on some of them.

Just got in from laying down The Ivory basecoat on the inner hood panels, underside of the aprons and one front wing. Will follow up in the morning with a clear topcoat. Progress is finally being made.

Chassis is completely disassembled and going to powder coating tomorrow as well
W. A. Chasser Jr

This thread was discussed between 16/07/2014 and 22/09/2014

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