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MG TD TF 1500 TD Heater BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net
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MG TD TF 1500 - TD Heater
| I've been running in New England in my 51 TD year round for about 5 years now, but on some of the cold winter days, the fingers and toes are getting numb and I'm feeling the need to put a heater in! Was wondering if anyone out there would have a workable heater that they are not using and might be willing to part with? You can answer me here or email me direct at: hinchcli@mediaone.net Thanks, Paul 51 TD |
| Paul Hinchcliffe |
| Look in the J.C.Whitney catalog and you will see that they havr a 7" X 7" heater that has the fan and all . If you order it and the installation kit you can put the heater in for about $ 100.00. If you want to chance a 1950's heater core and electrics, drop me an E-mail and I will make you a deal you can't refuse. If you want the JC Whitney part numbers, let me know. Tom |
| Tom |
| Paul I had a mate who owned a TD. He had a heater in that which came out of a Morris 1000. How it was plumbed in, I can’t remember. I would imagine scrap Morris’s are hard to find in the states, so maybe you should contact one of the UK specialists if you decide to go down this route. |
| ian holliday |
| Check heater listed on e bay |
| D J |
| Check out Minimania.com. I adapted a Mini heater to my TD with great results (bought the plumbing parts through Moss.) Andy Moyce 52 TD |
| Andy Moyce |
| OK...here goes...tear me to pieces! It gets cold here in Ohio. I do not like the looks of the "period" type aftermarket heaters...not to mention what the plumbing does to the looks under the bonnet. As an alternative I am installing a 12 volt cermamic heater up under the dash on the support frame that runs to the dash. It apears you will not even be able to see it in there. Has controls for a fan only (for some air on hot days) as well as 150w/250w to warm the little lady on those cool evenings. Period..."not" functional...we will see....but it made more sence to me than bastardizing under the bonnet with some of the "router-rooter" set ups that I have seen other do! As far as cost...under $50.00. OK guys ...let me have it. David #A1 55 TF1500 |
| David Sheward |
| Ok David - here it comes - where did you get your set up, it sounds great. Dave |
| David DuBois |
| Dave, Keep us posted on you findings. Unless you have a heavy duty alternator in place of the dynamo, your lights may be a little dim on those cool evenings. Tony |
| Tony Cove |
| David, I simply did a "search" for "12 volt car heater" from GOOGLE. It came back with tons of them. (Truck stops have them also). I don't like putting "holes" in baby and am in the process of re-wiring & re-painting the dash. Given the number of little aftermarket do-dads I have aquired I am adding a small pannel to the underside of my dash with some switches for fog/driving lites..a fuel "cut-off"...map lite...cig. lighter...hunting lite... "euro" style dc plug...binding post...and controls for the heater taht I am moving off the unit so I can hide it better. Unit I decided on is aprx. 7"x6"x3" "Road Pro RPSC-1481" 250 Watt. It was under $40.00. Going to require a little "re-working" to mount the way I want it. You might want to surf around on the web for one you like. I'll send you an excel file (unless you have AutoCad) of the panel design. Cheers, David #A1 |
| David Sheward |
| I added a heater 3 years ago, it's critical in the winter weather that is always present in Upstate NY. I used a TR3 heater (round) mounted under the dash and a switch for the fan under the dash on the driver's side so it can't be seen. The hoses are to the side of the engine bay and it comes off the radiator "T" and the back of the cylinder head. It is a clean and neat installation that really doesn't look too bad. The whole thing cost $30 and about 2 hours of my time. Now I can drive in April and in November and not freeze too badly. Rob |
| Rob Silverman |
| David, Doesn't the heat coming up through the holes and gaps in the floorboards keep you warm enough? We still have some of the plumbing bits here at Moss for a heater, although we don't currently have the unit itself. I'm going on vacation until March 18, but give me a call here after that if you need the plumbing. Craig Cody Contact Center Manager Moss Motors LTD 800 235-6954 ex 3190 |
| Craig Cody |
| Rob & others installing hot water heaters. <<<snip>>> radiator "T" <<<snip>>> That's okay to use the bypass hose for the return line <<<snip>>> and the back of the cylinder head. <<<snip>>> That's not. That's one of the coldest spots for water on the XPAG. Water from the pump goes down the external water gallery under the carbs before entering the block at the very back, just below the head. You want to take the hot water from the thermostat housing. On the TF there was a bung hole with a plug for just that purpose. BTDT with a TD. |
| Blake J. |
| Electric heaters at 150 Watts don't sound as if they will help much. The original Smiths (optional) heater in a Y Type is 1.5kW. |
| Colin Gibson |
| David, My wife has a hair dryer that puts out more than 150W Get out the thermals!! David |
| David Tinker |
| <<<snip>>> 250 watts <<<snip>>> Let's see 250 watts divided by 12 volts equals 21 amps. You'd better have an alternator installed as the orginal generator is either 17 or 19 amps maximum. You've got nothing left for the other electrics in the car. Blake |
| Blake J. |
| Tuff crowd! Not planning on installing snow-plow / 4-wheel drive and running all year! Just a little "warm air" to blow under the little ladies blanket on cool summer evenings. Blake makes a valid point though! When looking at my options...and there many of these units out there....I came across many of them requiring up to 30amps to operate. For this reason I did select one advertized as: "PTC Themistor power consumption...ensures LOW current Draw" Manufactor sugest a "20amp circut" but claims "normal duty draw" as closer to 5 amp due to "advanced circut design" ....just how "advanced" a design has been incorporated into a unit costing less than $40.00 remains to be seen! It's a "crap-shoot" at this point...but I thought it was worth a shot. At the very least I end up with a fan down there for the hot days...after all that is when I drive this car the most. I guess if we plan a trip to Alaska durring the dead of winter we will look at the option of installing a fireplace or steam boiler! I Love you guys, David #A1 55 TF1500 (w/dim headlights?) |
| David Sheward |
| Almost forgot..... Hey Blake...snip: "You've got nothing left for the other electrics in the car." Between "THE PRINCE OF DARKNESS" and the idiot that "almost" converted this car to neg. ground at some point in her life....nothing else was working in here anyway so I'm used to that! ;)! Keeping it lite! David |
| David Sheward |
| Blake: As a point of clarification...the bung hole you reference on the TF thermostat housing is actually used for the water temp bulb. On the TF, they moved the temp bulb from it's previous location in the radiator, to the thermostat housing to get a more accurate engine temp reading. Jim TF7022 |
| Jim Rice |
| Jim Rice The TF 1500 had a different housing than the TF 1250, in addition to the temperature sensor fitting it had a brass plug on the left side for the heater hose outlet. The "Y'-elbow was then modified by addition of a fitting for the return hose. |
| Don Harmer |
| <<<snip>>> The TF 1500 had a different housing than the TF 1250, in addition to the temperature sensor fitting it had a brass plug on the left side for the heater hose outlet. <<<snip>>> Learned something. I thought it was all TF's not just the 1500. Pulled out the TF parts book and indeed, the TF 1500 uses a different water outlet elbow. I've two TD-TF shop manuals: Jan. 54 and July 55. Niether cover the 1500 engine. Blake |
| Blake J. |
| Blake: That makes two of us ! Came THAT close to qualifying my earlier statement with specific reference to the TF1500......but alas...I didn't ! Jim TF7022 |
| Jim Rice |
| Has anyone tried to braze a fitting into the cast iron elbow just below the thermostat on a TD? I have thought about it many times but wasnt sure brazing would would hold a pipe fitting successfully. |
| Jim Merz |
| Jim: <<<snip>>> Has anyone tried to braze a fitting ... <<<snip>>> Brazing cast is tricky and you could warp the housing. I would try something differently as explained later. The original 1500 TF setup was designed to use the original style thermostat which cut off the bypass when the thermostat opened. These are hard to find and most people use a US pellet style. I would make up a new bypass elbow which attaches to the thermostat. It would be in the form of a T. One nipple of the T would have a reduced inside diameter and go to the bypass hose going to the lower radiator hose. The smaller bypass is to ensure that there is some water circulation so the thermostat functions properly. A smaller hole also helps to make sure that as much hot water as possible goes to the heater and not through the bypass. The other nipple would be larger and go to the heater. It would also have a shut off valve in the hose some where, perhaps under the cowl. I would also open up the opening where the T attaches to the thermostat housing. Another option would be to adapt some sort valve fitting like a garden Y fitting with shutoffs. I think you can get them made of brass. In the summer time, the valve to the heater is closed and the one to the bypass opened. In the winter the opposite is used. You could also adjust the heat to some extent by partially closing the valve to the heater. My TD had a heater in it when I purchased the car in 1967. I believe it was installed by the dealer when the car was new. The installer understood how the original thermostat worked and would cut off the bypass when it opened. Consequently the guts were removed from the housing and a USA pellet type used. This worked fairly well until the thermostat opened and the hot water went to the radiator instead. It also meant that the heater line served as the bypass and would get hot in the summer. You couldn't use a shut off valve, as then there would be no circulation during warmup. Blake |
| Blake J. |
| To David, Dave. David, David and David, I agree. David (#1), and still think we need a sub-set club. "Davids' MGT club". I vote for pegleg Sheward for our first President. |
| capdave |
| Our TF has a Bosch heater with a two speed fan. It is round and has doors on the front. The water curcuit is tapped off of the rear of the head and has a petcock to turn off the heat in summer. The return hose is connected to the three branch water pipe, which has been modified to four branches. The hoses run below the carbs and through the firewall to the heater. A very neat and simple setup. If you want a pix send me an email. I did a hose replacemant some time ago and it was very difficult get all four hoses connected at the same time. But there is this secret stuff, (K-V Jelly) which allows you to slide the hoses around while connecting them. Cleans up with water and does not affect the rubber. No pun intended. Works good on windscreen rubber too. Heater works quite well in the spring and fall, but is inadequate for winter. (Don't drive in winter anyway) |
| colin stafford |
| After his comments about heaters I do not think 'pegleg Sheward has a leg to stand on!! David |
| David Tinker |
| Tooo many "Dave's"...Mr. Tinker...you may be right but I have twice the legroom in MY TF! LOL Set-up Colin describes sounds neat & clean and I fully aggree about the seasonal driving habits. (yer scarring me with the KY Jelly though!)The "router-rooter" plumbing I refered to ...I have seen a couple of heaters installed with copper 3/4" plumbing ...I am not a concoures auto (right now if fact mine looks more like an erector set gone wrong!) but the thought of sweating pipes and the look of copper & soldier splaters all over the engine just did not apeal to me. Curious ..with the "orginal" period heaters what did the install look like? I would love to see what one looked like when installed with a "period kit?"...or was routing left to the installer? David #A1 1955 (built 1954) TF (not tf)1500(w/dimlites)& twice the legroom as the rest of you! |
| David Sheward |
| <<<snip>>> I would love to see what one looked like when installed with a "period kit?"...or was routing left to the installer? <<<snip>>> As I explained earlier, I think my TD #25539 had a heater installed when new. The bypass hose was removed and the heater plumbed into those fittings. (The bypass hose may just have been cut and the heater hoses inserted INTO the bypass hose. I've removed the heater, so I can't say for sure.) The hoses were clipped to the right radiator stay and entered the tool box on the right side. The nipples for the heater core were centered inside the bottom of the tool box. The heater motor has a two or three speed motor with the switch attached below the dash. The thermostat housing had the innards removed so the blocking action of the thermostat didn't function. A new pellet thermostat was used. It's outside diameter was the same as the outlet on the thermostat housing. When the hose was slipped on, it held the thermostat in place. The heater looks just like those seen in old advertisements. with doors to the floor and side. |
| Blake J. |
| Finally found the images of an original Arnolt heater brochure and installation. It's what I have in my TD and find it to be quite adequate. I believe that Moss Motors still carries the bypass plumbing adapter. Look at <http://www.home.earthlink.net/~budkrueger/Heater/>. |
| Bud Krueger |
| So I have what I now discover is an Arnolt heater in my TF- at least its the same shape but without any Arnolt badge. It has a rheostat controlled fully variable speed fan. It is plumbed in via hoses to the rear of the head via a brazed in takeof point. to a wheel operated water valve brazed into the metal pipe in the water return path from the bottom of the radiator. Quite an odd set up and could be better IMHO. Probably fitted in the States where my LHD TF was originally sent. (She also has chromed rocker cover, engine side cover and original AMCO luggage rack) jt www.mgjohn.com |
| John Thomas |
| If you'd like to see a well-presented article on installing a hot-water heater in a TC (Should also apply equally well to a TD), visit this website < www.mg-tabc.org > Click on the tab for "Technology" and scroll down to the article on "TC Heater" Now, if you really want HEAT, look around for a "sOUTHWIND" heater. These U.S.-made units will literally drive you out of the car with their heat output if set on high. They amount to a miniature gasoline (petrol) burning furnace with a sealed combustion chamber. They draw their fuel from the engine's fuel line, and exhaust via an adapter into the engine's intake manifold. Instant heat, and LOTS of it. The hitch is that they haven't been made for well over 25 years. |
| Carl Fritz |
| Just when you thought this thread had exhausted itself! There is a period (TF?) heater for sale on ebay. Item 1818521270. Tony |
| Tony Cove |
| Southwind heater for sale http://www.antiquecar.com/int.html |
| Robert Dougherty |
| Robert, Interesting heater. I had one on my 1970's vintage VW, my first car. I took it out when a friend of mine saw an article in the newspaper about someone who had a similar heater catch his clothes on fire due to a gas line leak and resultant fire. Not the way I wanted to warm up, I like warm air, not barbecue !! Cheers, Rob |
| Rob Silverman |
| <<<snip>>> installing a hot-water heater in a TC (Should also apply equally well to a TD), visit this website < www.mg-tabc.org > <<<snip>>> That article still uses the back of the cylinder head as the place to get the hot water. A better article written by Roy Jacobson appeared in TSO about 7-10 years ago. |
| Blake J. |
| P.S. Roy also tells how to install the nipples for the heater hoses correctly into the bypass line and the thermostat housing. |
| Blake J. |
This thread was discussed between 16/02/2002 and 25/04/2002
MG TD TF 1500 index
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