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MG TD TF 1500 - Sway bar links

I want to install a sway bar on my late model TD. I've gone through the archives and T-Talk and have decided that I might want the MBG 9/16 sway bar with urethane bushings. I'm considering the 5/8 diameter but I'm just not sure yet. I'm going to overhaul the front suspension anyway this winter and now seems like a good time to change the spring pans and a-arm supports to accept the sway bar links so I don't have to do this again. This will also give me the strength in the a-arms that was designed into the MGB.
It would appears as if short links are the way to go to eliminate possible interference with the tie rods and steering gaiters. Does anybody know where to get these short links other than to make numerous trips to NAPA to perform a trial and error process? Does MOSS sell these? Seems as if I need 4 3/8" long links, center to center on the bolts, from what I can tell based on reading various articles, so that I keep the links under the tie rod. This appears to eliminate a lot of problems.
Also, would I be advised to look for used pans, arm supports, and a sway bar or am I just buying trouble? I get nervous using e-bay for parts like these. I don't know of any MGB's locally that are being parted out. If I did, at least I could examine the parts before purchase.

Mark
Mark Strang

I put the 5/8 sway bars on mine and all I did was shorten the rod end about a 1/4 inch and it is fine, been on car almost 7 years.
Tom Maine

Tom,
What do you mean by "rod end"? Isn't that the actual sway bar? How can that be shortened with the bushing in it?
Mark
Mark Strang

Tom, are you referring to the "MGB link" rod?

The bar diameter, 9/16" vs 5/8" is like splitting hairs, for street use. They'll both limit roll, the thicker bar will reduce it better for roadracing, but ride will be compromised just a touch.

Engineering wise, the short links will work, as long as you don't care what's twisting and turning badly under there. Copy the long links as built on the MGBs. The old rubber loaded joints weren't meant to swivel very much. If you like modernizing, you could look up some Heim joints off ebay for some really slick looking links.

Also, best to go with B spring pans (or significantly reinforce TDs*) as they're reinforced for the sway bay. Drilling a hole through the unreinforced stock springpan flanges will weaken them, but they will work... the risk is about like driving with only 2 lugnuts/wheel.

*I'd weld a couple of washers on each side of the pan flange at the hole you drill to restore strength lost to the hole.
JRN JIM

Mark,
3 years ago I decided to put sway bars on my TD. In speaking to Moss Tech support they suggested I call Lawrie Alexander. I believe he used to work for them but has his own business now and is available for consulting. He is a mechanic and had a vintage TD that he races. Probably does more mileage on TD's every year than any one I know.
He suggested the Austin Healey sway bar(031-281 plus some hardware). Some folks don't like the way it attaches but he has been using his under the hardest of conditions for many years with no problems.
I've been using it since May 2011 and it has been a great improvement in handling. I've made one slight modification.
There have been some past threads on sway bars.
Mort
Mort Resnicoff 50 TD (Mobius)

When I did mine, I bought a used MGB sway bar (think they came in three sizes, mine was about the middle weight) and two spring pans ... the links came from Moss (and bushings) and it was an hour or so job... no binding or interference.
Check the exploded view on Moss....
gblawson(gordon- TD27667)

Mark, the OEM (long) links work, but you have to trial fit with car on the ground, steering at full lock.
I used MGB R/B performance springs, 480# & urethane bushings on ALL suspension ( front & rear) & the sway bar. Find used sway bar assembly, check MG race car sites. 5/8 bar as 9/16 are scarce.
I might have spring pans, & front a arms.
914 420 8699
Len Fanelli

Mark, I bought all the sway bar parts from an MGB being salveaged. The spring pans and front arms were cleaned up and painted to look like new. No signs of any wear on them. I bought new rubber sway bar bushings to fit under the retainer brackets but used the same long links. The long links caused some interference problmens with the steering gaitors so I had them shortened. The studs on a link are not in the same plane so I made a little jig which fit each stud and therefore preserved the angular differeence. I cut the jig in the middle and shortened it to fit the studs where they should be. Then I had the shortened parts welded back together. No more interference and the front suspension is very much improved. Like Jim Northrup said, it doesn't make much difference in which diameter bar you use unless you ara really into some hard driving.
I have a pretty good photo coverage of my installation if you are interested.



Jim Merz

Jim, I reviewed your write up on Ttalk which encouraged me to try this modifcation. I installed one on a 69 midget years ago when I used to go autocrossing. It was great. From what I can tell the results should be good with the TD. I'm looking locally to see if I can find the suspension parts used. If not I'll try Lou or as a last resort-Moss.
Mark
Mark Strang

The tie rod end had to have about a 1/4 inch sawn off because it hit when adjusted to fit.
Tom Maine

I have considered adding a sway bar to my TD MKII. Would there be a clearance problem with the Andrex shocks? Any problems mounting the Andrex to the MGB a-arms and spring pans?
John Masters

John, take a look at the image I posted above. I don't have a picture of your Andrex installation but you may be able to answer your question yourself by looking at my sway bar. Keep in mind that I had the vertical link shortened so that may make a difference on your car. The MGB front arm has a small doubler welded in place to take some of the sway bar loads.
Jim Merz

I seem to have found a B that is being parted out locally on Craig's list. The bar is the right size and is apparently in good condition. The owner offered to sell me the whole front end. Is there any point in doing this? Can the disc brakes be mounted on a TD and if so will the wheels bolt on. I've told him that I didn't want the rest of the front end, but I thought that I'd check here to see if it makes sense.
Mark
Mark Strang

I did the shortened B links on B pans and sway bar that I bought offeBay. I didn't have a measurement to work with so I took the springs out and turned the dreading left and right and was able to manipulate the pans through their entire range and then determine the most reasonable length. My goal was to get the bar as level as possible at neutral suspension position as I didn't like the high angle of attack of the stock length B links. It felt to me the vector forces would put undue stress on the dumb irons.

The bar does indeed improve vehicle lean, but the turn is a bit more skittish than it was with out it. The car now has a catch and release, catch and release experience when cornering at the limits. I really miss the old heavy lean, ballanced oversteer, gentle restoration to original track format from before the bar. I've even considered removing my bar. That said, it is still on there and it will likely stay there.

Alex
Alex Waugh

Alex,
Certainly something to consider. I'll have the parts next week, but probably won't get a chance to do anything until after the hoildays.

Mark
Mark Strang

Alex, just out of curiosity, how does the length of your links compare to mine as shown in the image attached to one of my comments above? I didn't go through the analysis that you did but my short link seems to be in the right ballpark.
Jim Merz

Jim,

They are pretty durn close to yours.

Alex
Alex Waugh

Jim, are your links 3 inches long?
Rich (TD 3983) Taylor

Mark, get the spring pans with along with the A arms. The B pans have an additional opening for the link and the A arms have a larger hole and welded in gusset for the threaded link end. The rest of the B stuff won't work unless you want to do some major modifications. You might want to take the springs and the upper location cups as well. The springs will stiffen up the front if you want to go that route and they will work on the T. They are a slightly different id and the cups are as well but they will bolt right in place of the stock cups.

Here is the difference in the pans


MG LaVerne

The A arms


MG LaVerne

The upper locating cups... hard to see but they are different od's


MG LaVerne

And the springs


MG LaVerne

Last picture


MG LaVerne

Rich, yes my vertical links are right at 3" long measuring between the center lines of each attaching bolt. Shortening to that length has removed all interference problems between the sway par and the rubber gaiters. Before shortening, it was possible under certain conditions for the gaiters to get torn open which did happen to me.


LaVerne, excellent coverage on the differences between the parts. Your photos will take all the guesswork out of those who are considering the addition of a sway bar.
Jim Merz

Jim,

Just hit the shop and took a quick measurement. I wouldn't use this as a final measurement since I was just going for a close check, but mine look to be somewhere between 2.25" and 2.5".

Alex
Alex Waugh

Here are a few other shots to show what I ended up doing...

This one shows the bracket I had made to replace the one at the horn bracket. I made it up so that one hole was re-used from the horn bracket in the dumb iron, and one NEW hole had to be drilled to mount the B sway bar brackets.


Alex Waugh

Here is a shot of the bracket in place.


Alex Waugh

and here's a picture of my links (that ended up being somewhere between 2.25-2.5" long.

As for the horns (which you can just see past the sway bar bushing), which no longer fit in their stock location with the bar in place, I did not want to mount them upside down as others have done. With the weather we have here in the NW and the chances that I'll be in the rain now and again, I saw that the water would get trapped in the horn body and lay on the resonator plate. This would likely lead to a failure of that part.

So, I went out looking for a replacement set of horns that are similar in sound. I found those in a modern Audi/VW. They have a high/low in the same interval as the stock horns, and are just a bit higher than the Lucas ones. I bought them at a junk yard for $10 for the pair including the wiring harness which I soldered onto the TF's stock harness.

I then set about making brackets out of two thin pieces of metal that mounted onto the steering rack bolt in the front side of the rack. The new horns lie in the same spot and face roughly the same was as the stock ones with a TON more clearance. I'm quite pleased with the installation.

Alex


Alex Waugh

LaVerne,

I was able to get the spring pans, A-arms, links, hardware, and the bar from a donor '78 MGB in Northern Va. A friend of mine is going to bring them to Williamsburg after the first of the year. It seemed to make sense to go with the pans and arms to eliminate the mods to the various TD parts. I didn't think of the springs and holders though. Interestingly enough, there seemed to be a lot of MGB's that are being broken up for parts on Craigs List. My deal cost very little considering the owner took everything apart for me. I hope to have the bar installed next month. Gives me a chance to replace the seals and check out all of the pins, bushings, and parts in the suspension since I'll have most of it apart anyway. I am anxious to see how the car handles. My wife is getting a dash grab bar as a stocking stuffer. I think that she might need it!

Mark
Mark Strang

It will make a huge improvement Mark. Probably the single best modification I've done to the TF.
MG LaVerne

LaVerne,

I'll let your know how it all turns out.

Mark
Mark Strang

This is an excellent thread. I also have all the bits to install an ARB but am questioning the use of the MGB springs.

I have seen LaVerne's TF (genuine 100mph TF) and his installation is exemplery

The TF springs are larger in diameter than those of the MGB so this means that I will have to replace the entire TF springpan with an MGB one (which I have) if I am to use the MGB springs.

Also appreciated the comments and pix of various links, and placement of TF horns.

No lack of choice here.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué
Gordon A Clark

I am reactivating this thread to as Jim Merz a question.
Jim could you please measure the shaft of your shortened links. The measurement of 3 inches from center to center of attachment bolts seems to be shorter than the picture above, maybe I am not understanding correctly, as usual. If I know the shaft length I can get it right.
Thanks,
Rich
Rich (TD 3983) Taylor

Rich, I just did my '50 TD (see prior post with video link attached). There was no need to shorten my links. It handles 100% better now!
Ed
efh Haskell

Rich, I made a mock-up of a shortened link to see how it would work based on what Jim had done. After fooling around with it for a day with limited success, I installed the long stock link. It(the long link) worked just fine so I went with it and bagged the idea of the shorter link. I'm happy and the car is happy.
Interestingly, when I removed the spring on the left side, I discovered that the spring was broken at about 1 turn up from the bottom. I replace it with a good spare that I had on hand. About two weeks later while doing a brake job on a friend's TD I discovered that he had a broken spring on the right hand side! Two broken springs found in a matter of two weeks. I installed the second spring that I had and all is well. I've not heard of springs breaking. I'm wondering if this is basic problem. I'll watch them from time to time in the future but hopefully it won't happen again.

Mark
Mark Strang

Rich, I just measured my short links and came up with about 3 3/8" from center to center of the mounting bolt and hole. With everyone having good results with the original long stock link, I finally remembered why I decided to shorten mine. With the load off the front wheels and the steering turned to full stop on either side, the link rubbed on the gaiter and tore one. In retrospect, maybe that is an unnatural situation but my conservative philosophy is that if it can happen, it will happen.
And I have to thank you for asking because in getting this measurement for you, I found a very slight longitudinal crease in the bottom edge of the dumb iron just aft of where the sway bar clamp is bolted on. In my earlier comments on the subject, I mentioned that I considered making a 1/4" thick doubler to be installed on the top side of the dumb iron flange for strength but said I would wait and see if a doubler on each side was necessary. After several years of driving during Summers, I will make a pair and install them over this Winter.
Jim Merz

Ed and Mark thanks for the feedback I really appreciate it. Jim thanks for taking the time to measure that for me.
Rich (TD 3983) Taylor

This thread was discussed between 08/12/2013 and 09/11/2014

MG TD TF 1500 index

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