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MG TD TF 1500 - Say 'Hi' to the newbie...! :-)

G'day All.

MG owners worldwide sound like they're all having so much fun. Temptation is getting too great...

I am familiar with TCs, however don't have much experience with the later Ts.

Would welcome all hints & tips as to what to watch out for when looking at a prospective TD/TF.

Post away; thanks in advance.
Will

Welcome Will!
In a word.."wood"..ya gotta check yer wood! If the woods no good...your in for a real go at correcting it! (if that doesn't bring capdave back up to the surface ...nothing will!) Next would be numbers check them with the BMHT..there are a lot of these cars with other than the orginal motors in them. This is not necessarly a bad thing..but as far as collectable should have some direct effect on the price you pay. Pay real close attention on the TF for this. Differance between a 1250 & a 1500 is about $40.00 worth of "badges & reflectors" there were considerably less 1500's made. I have looked at many 1250's claiming to be a 1500 only to find an MGB or MGA motor in there. (There is one on ebay right now)Again, not putting anybody down for this..but it should have a bearing on what you are willing to pay. If your looking for a "driver" only then go for one with a volvo 1800 engine..but adjust your willingness to pay the same as you would for an orginal engine! The rest is obvious...take a magnet with you when you look..are the "wings" steel or fiberglass?..."Bondo & Body filler" packed into the frame and painted is NOT a good thing! Get your hands on a Moss catalog...read through it and pay close attention to the items marked "NA" if the car your looking at is missing or in need of a lot of those items be pepared to buy or make sure you have access to a bead or sand blaster and consider the time & effort it will take to convert a "used block of rust" into a useable part! I'm sure others with more experance will chime in with even more & better advise...but this ahould get you headed in the right direction as to being an experanced buyer.
Best of Luck in your quest!
Cheers,
David #A1 55 TF1500
David Sheward

Will,
As a TD "newbie" myself I would add the following to David's excellent advice. Take your time and then take some more time. Join the local clubs and get a look (or a drive) in as many owners cars as possible). For all the reasons David stated, I would avoid cars with missing or non original components as missing items are becoming very expensive to replace. I am staggered at the prices paid for used an abused TD parts. Unless you are daft like me and enjoy the challenge I would buy the very best car you can afford. One that is known in local circles as being correcly restored or genuinely original. Don't underestimate the cost of a "small amount" of restoration work whatever you skills may be.
Tony
Tony Cove

Will,
Take time to look the car over. Find a TD owner and ask him to evaluate the condition of the car with you. I bought mine and it looked real good, new wood less than 2000 miles on the engine since a complete overhaul by an experienced engine mechanic, according to the owner. Main and rod bearings were .010 and crank had .020 stamped on it, chank was checked and it was .020, so the experienced mechanic blew that one. The wood was really new along with the interior. Ask for any receipts to prove that the work/parts were done. The above comments are right on!!

DJ
DJ

Sheward (#1) is right on... ONE thing. BUY a TF1500 ( no point in doing TDs' or TF 1250),, and buy one already done. Mr. Wisdom.
capdave


Much appreciated, guys... and keep 'em coming!

Yes, agree on the wood issue. However I'm in Oz and believe that down under here the climate is excellent for preserving original ash work - as long as previous owners haven't left it out in the rain uncovered too often. Better here than in UK or the tropics.

Would you consider it safe to assume if the scuttle doesn't flop around and the doors aren't sagging too badly, then the whole wood should be pretty sound?


Don't like Ts with non-BMC engines... imho its gotta be an XPxG in there or we might as well be driving a Nissan/Toyota engined replica. :-) And one nearly fooled me recently too... saw this young guy with "TF" broken down on the roadside, stopped to help. But one look under the bonnet its "sorry mate, can't help you there. I know nuttin' about those jap donks."


re: "matching numbers". How much can you rebuild an engine before its no longer considered "original"? From a novice's view, that XPAG/XPEG octagon badge on the block appears just rivetted on, right?


Thanks again, guys.
Will

Will,
The wood in my TF was in good shape...but very "dry" I spent the first summer I had her treating with lindseed oil to repalce some of the natural moister. It seems to have worked. A word of caution here is that I have been told there is a very real danger of spontanious combuston while doing this! For that reason I chose to do it in a garage with a good sprinkler system in place. An inpsection of the floor boards should serve as a good "gauge" as to wood condiction as it would be the most exposed and if it shows no sign of having been replaced then I would think the chances are pretty good the rest should be in good shape. If you get up under the dash with a flashlight you can see some of the wood for a visual.
Another easy place to check is at the door latches. Once you have decided on the "right" car consider asking the owner if he would mind you taking a closer look under there. My doors were not a very good fit as far as closing...closer inspection showed that over the years all kinds of crazy things had been "stuffed" in there in an attempt to make them close correctly. Moss makes a "repair" kit that extends the point were latches are fastened to the kick pannel..and that did the trick for me. The word of caution here...if you are suspect that the doors don't close tightly...tie the handles together before you trailor the car at 70MPH down the freeway! Although mine close very nicely I still do this if hauling it..."sucide door" comming open as you watch through the rearview mirror could be a very ugly thing! On the engine "kudos" to ya...I feel the same! (although the TD on ebay right now with the corvette 327 engine could be a lot of fun)BMHT can supply you with a document showing correctness of motor # for $40.00...worthwhile to know before you buy! I do belive motor # is also stamped into the block as well....I should know for sure as I am degreasing mine right now for a re-paint. Read all you can get your hands on! I had a couple of guys insist that the TF had "fiberglass" wings..I can assure you that "if it aint' steel,it aint' real"!
Cheers,
David #A1
David Sheward

Will, regarding your "safe to assume" comment- my dad always said that the first three letters in "assume" are the key to it- as you usually end up that if you do! I have seen several cars that the upper wood is fine, doors not bad, and the lower main side rails (the rail inside the running boards) and the tank backboard side supports are virtually missing. Gotta check those too! In my opinion, if going for a TF, look for a 1500, but an overbored, cammed 1250 runs nicely. I changed the oil filter on a TF last month- not a pleasant task Access to carbs, starter, water pump, etc. dismal. TD advantages: great headlights, classic grill, fabulous round instruments (some of which are even in front of the driver!),very easy engine access. Other than engine access, style the main thing.
George Butz

George is "dead on with the assume" ...I had to go back and reread to make sure I didn't say that!
I aggree with his comments about the TD being easier
to work on as well. My mechanic and I actually looked the other day (as the TF is in pieces) at what we would have to do to make the bonnet operate more like a TD! We decided it would "bastardize" the car too much but we are still going to look into more of a "quick release" for my side panels when we reasemble. "Concoures" be damned common sence might overrule if we come up with a better way! I have more fun driving than looking....if it will get me back out there "cornoring robustly" sooner and is something I can engineer in that could be switched back and do no damage I will do it. Anybody else ever address this in the TF? Instramentation on the TD is much more classic looking also...but I think I will leave that alone..gonna keep my 100MPH speedo...gives the wife something to watch!
Cheers
David #A1
David Sheward

Line up a good psychiatrist and a sympathethetic bank manager. Never set out in a TF with the expectation of actually getting to your destination.

Really, the main thing is that the numbers match, everything else is fixable if at a cost. See you around.

Bill.
Bill McGee

Hi Will,

Where in Oz are you? Just because these cars are here does not mean that the wood doesn't rot. I had to have the whole frame replaced on my TD due to rot. You must be very careful.

Regards
Bob TD11058 & YT4320
Bob Simpson


Hi Bob: Am down south in Melbourne.

Yes, agreed - abused wood can rot, especially if its repeatedly flooded by rain over the years. But wouldn't this be really obvious anyway? eg sagging doors, floppy scuttle, missing screws attaching the panelwork etc.

Oz weather & climate is a lot more hospitable for these wooden tubs than say Ol' Blighty or the tropics where it rains daily. The low humidity we enjoy makes it easier to dry things out... vs try drying your clothes on a foggy London day.

I hear the local replacement boys use Tasmanian hardwood in lieu of ash too.
Will

Hang out with a few MG T Type car guys who have nice cars and do there own work. Look for a car that's been recognized in the MG circles. Check the MG TD and TF websites hosted by Chris Couper for lots of info. Call Andrew Magliton (Aussy) He's a judge from which you can get lots of tips. Look at some original cars and notice the details. Avoid non original cars.
Ah!m The wood. Contrary to some people's opinion wood is supposed to be "dry", wet wood is what rot's. Poke around with a dental pick to find the soft stuff, that's the rot.
Unless you can do most of your own work on a basket case restoration, buy one that's been done and drive it. Do your research.
colin stafford

I agree with Colin, get some experience of T Types before you buy. Reading all the advice given is essential. There are so many variables that an overall knowledge is essential. It may take longer to get a T Type but when you do there will be less surprises. If you are going to view a car take a knowledgeable T type owner with you, even if you have to pay his expenses, it will be worth it.

Good luck in your quest,

David
David Tinker

It is correct that the wood will rot here in Oz. When I bought my TF thirty odd years ago with all the lower wood was completly gone. It was very obvious as the tub was only holding together by the panels and was, as you might immagine, somewhat shaky. The upper timbers were savageable and were retained. I had all the timber replaced professionally. I can't remember what we used, but it was a light soft wood, possibly orogon. However, we very carefully treated all the timber with preservative before painting. The result has been very successful, the timbers are in excellent condition. The preservative is the trick.

I would be very carefull of replacing what was originally a very light timber with a heavy hardwood as this would add weight to the car. My experience has been to be very carefull of any modification as it tends to produce trouble elsewhere. Change the threads on the front bumper bolts and three years later the rear bumper falls off.

But remember, basically you can't get it fullly right in picking up one of these cars. They were a cheap car to start with, never designed to last fifty years and a now guaranteed to produce continual failures. The suspense of wondering what is going to break next is much of the fun.

Bill.
Bill McGee

Gday Will,
Just got back from the Adelaide National Meeting after 11 hours in the saddle of my TF 1500 (God bless my sheepskin seat cover). It was a really good meeting, good weather for the concours, motorkhana and sprints. Several overseas guests in attendance including a TC from NZ. I helped judge the TF's in the concours, about 14 of them including two Really Top examples. Some of the Queensland TF's drove three days to get to Adelaide on highways which are "interesting" by English standards and "goddam rough" by American standards. Old cars don't have to be fragile cars.
The guys have been giving you some really good advice, I particuarly like the idea of taking a T type owner along to view the car and I recommend the Melbourne club which has its own T Register as a good source of information.
Woodwork. There is no good climate for Ash. The car manufacturers liked Ash because it was soft and easy to work, therefore saved time and especially money. (I am now putting on my bullet-proof vest). Give me a good Australian hardwood anyday. Seriously, you are unlikely to find a T type with a complete original Ash frame, unless it is a basket case,in Melbourne. A couple of years ago I replaced the sills on my car with Vicash (Eucalypt hardwood)and I expect this timber to outlast me and the next few owners. By the way, the sills are easy to see under the car-which probably explains why they are prone to rot.
Good luck with your search and take your time, the right car will find you.
Matthew #9097.
Matthew Magilton

Thanks again guys; more the merrier!

Wow, that Nat meet sounds amazing. Wish I was there; could only make the Melbourne concours earlier this yr.

QLD-SA or even VIC-SA in an MG would be an astounding effort... it'll be a while before I'd dare attempt that. :-) Plus taking into account commercial car cartage rates - could work out cheaper than just the fuel costs for the 3000km.



Ignoramus Q: "sills"... that would be the bit under the door openings?

Current definition is "the bit that rusts out between front wheel and back wheel on the MGB, then the doors won't close". (LOL)
W Chang

This thread was discussed between 30/03/2002 and 07/04/2002

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