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MG TD TF 1500 - Questions about getting my first TD

Hello all,
I am thinking about checking into a 1952 MG restoration project for sale in my area (about 100 miles away).
I have restored several B's, an A, also a Morris and a Metroplitan.

I'm assuming:
1) Parts are going to cost more.
2) Parts are not as plentiful as with a B, for example.
3) Restoration if far more difficult, body in particular.

I'd like to know if I'm right on those assumptions. Am I missing anything?

Also, what are they like to drive, once made road-worthy?

Any advice or opinions are greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Dave
David Steverson

As an eBay afficianado, with time on my hands, I see no dificulty in TDs. Everything bolts together. There is the little things like getting doors to align but these fellows (and at least one gal) can step one through literally any problem. They drive wonderfully but slower. One might have to worry about sharp bends/inclines causing loss of oil pressure and there are rumors about some cars losing tire pressure on bends (if they don't have tubes). There are 'fixes' for these and other problems that I know about. I do not know what the users of the other BBS sections are like but these particular people are the best.

John
John Redman

Thanks for that speedy reply John. Yes I find this a wonderful board, I'm usually in the MGB section.

I looked back at the ad and it's a 1953, if that matters.
Dave
David Steverson

I am unsure any of your assumptions are totally correct. I started by restoring my TD. I feel it takes much less time and true expertise than the B does.

Some parts are more expensive, especially if you are rebuilting the engine. Others are about the same (carpets, seat covers interior kits etc.)
Bruce Cunha

Parts are as available as for an MGB. Get Moss and Abingdon Spares Catalogs. Some cost more, some less. Since you don't have a Unibody, but a steel frame, with a wood framed body you have far less rust problems.
If the wood is ok, then body restoration is much easier than a B.
Be aware, all body bolts and nuts are British Standard Fine and require Whitworth or BSF wrenches. The engine and transmission are French Standard Metric (NOT ISO) with Whitworth heads.

So an additional expense is a set of Whitworth or BSF sockets and end wrenches plus a 2BA end wrench and socket (for the smaller than 1/4 inch screws)

Buy a TD/ TF Workshop Manual before you do anything!!!
Don Harmer

Just one additional thing... driving a TD (30,000 built) compared to an MGB (500,000 built).
People really don't look twice at a B....but a TD... wow... you will be stopped at every corner by every age/gender type of person... you will feel really "special" after driving it a couple times... (Its why TD owners need big hats...!!!!)
This is why they are geared so low... people have more time to look at them as they slowly drive by...

http://www.niagarabritishcarclub/mgtnumbers/numbers.html
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Hi David (we been a bit short of Davids here on the BBS, it's always nice to have another)

I knew for years (since 1987) that I would restore my 52 TD. I have a photosite where the process is on going:

http://www.funpilot15.photosite.com/MGTDRebuild/

Other members have similar sites. I think it would be nice to get a running car in need of restoration, so you can play with it for a while. Things that you do (rebuild carbs, etc.) while running will acquaint you with the car, and give you a baseline that will be helpful.

I collected many books before I started my process, including the Workshop manual,
Original MG T Series (Clausager)
How to Restore Wooden Body Framing (Alderwick)
University Motors Technical Book (Twist)
The XPAG Engine (Wood) -never formally published
MG midget Series "TD" Workshop Manual (the NSW Austrailia version)
Tseries FAQ (from the mg-t@autox.team.net)
-and-
The Complete M.G. TD Restoration Manual (Schach)

Of these I think Schach will give you the best idea of the complexity, and the best guide to work with along with the Workshop Manual.

Welcome, and GOOD Hunting for a suitable car

dave
D. A. Braun

Dave,

One matter you didn't mention:- are your plans for a pure driver, combination show and driver, or strictly show?

I suspect most participants on this board have T-Series that are drivers, and in fact, many of us attend the events - called GOFs (Gathering of the Faithful - a phrase coined by the late Frank Churchill of Middlebury, VT) and other similar functions, in which a lot of the fun is in driving our T's on the back roads, to get there.

Do not expect a T to behave as comfortably as an MGB. You have to understand the psychology of enjoying true, open air driving - no roll-up windows (sidescreens), and the heater was a dealer-installed option! In fact, many of us enjoy summer, with the windscreen folded flat.

So whichever direction you take your T, will depend on the configuration of your restoration.

As Don Harmer (in your neck of the woods) points out, all pre-1956 MGs are of a simple "Mechano Set" construction. Unlike an MGB, doing body work does not involve complicated welding, compound curves, etc.

I've owned mine for 51 years (from new)and it has NEVER let me down, and I've driven to California and Florida from my home in Québec. And very recently, Rick Malstead literraly circumnavigated the entire US in a TD with his dog!

Whatevere you do, take heed of the good and free advice, you'll find here on the TD/TF BB.

Good Luck.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A. Clark

Dave,

It all depends on what you want from the car. How original do you want it, driver or trailer queen?

There are a few things I would look for that I learned from my first one. First of all check the condition of the frame, just forward of the rear springs back and behind the front wings (hard to do but at least in that area. The major body parts you want to be good, the front wings & bonnet, and bulkhead. These are VERY expensive as reprodution and if you find used ones, hard to ship. Other body parts to look at would be the fuel tank and rear fenders. The engine & transmission, too many TDs have Volvos & Datsun engines and although the owners think they are worth more, most of us would disagree. See if the engine & chassis matches the ID tags. Anyone here can tell you where to look, I'll even send photos. The chrome, be sure that the radiator shell is good. This could cost you $600 and up for a decent one. Another costly item is the gauges, be sure they have good faces and are the right color, my first ones were black, I didn't know any better.

Other parts you may need are expensive but less costly than the above.

Regards,
Ron

PS: nice 53 TD on e-bay in NH that ends tonight. Don't let the bad paint fool you, at least there is nothing to hide.
Ron Boisvert

"Also, what are they like to drive, once made road-worthy?"
I got my TD a year before I bought a B. The TD has been restored, the B worn out, so these are jsut my impressions -- the TD engine is more free revving, has a great exhaust note and handles like a it's on rails -- the B takes a while to wind up, rolls on corners, has creature comforts (a heater) and you seem more contained with the higher door top height to sitting level. If I drive at night I prefer the B. Great fun to have both.
Good luck,
Dennis
D F Sexton

What year B do you have, DF? My '70 B is much quicker and better handling than my TF 1500. I only have about 400 miles on the TF, but I've noticed that the TF tends to understeer a bit if you plow into a corner a little too fast, where the B will kick the back end out (oversteer) in the same corner about 5 or so mph faster. I'm way more comfortable with a little oversteer than understeer.

The TF is fun to drive, and it attracts with much more attention than the B with its outstanding looks, but you just can't drive it as fast as the B. The B also has better brakes. It's just a more modern car. The TF has its own charms, and I try to enjoy them on their own terms.
Mark Barrington

Mark, I helped a friend find a B, a wonderful 1970 B also. She loves it, and although the wheel has a position which is difficult for my tall frame (6'3") and long legs (my thigh collides with the wheel rim) it is a delight to drive. I found the steering on her car to be very neutral. I'm jealous that you have a TF and a B!

I think the split bumper thing is sooooo cool.

we now return you to your regularly scheduled T-Series forum.

dave
D. A. Braun

I have a '68 Midget, and just inherited a '52 TD, and here are my not-so-experienced impressions:

1) Parts ARE more expensive. I just had to pony up for some new carb fuel lines, and they were $30 *each*. The Midget uses regular rubber fuel lines which you can pick up at any auto store.

2) Parts are more rare, and thus more expensive. I've seen B's & Midgets in junkyards (although that is getting rare). Just try to find a T-series...

3) You need to buy some new tools to work on these. Unless you are lucky and hit a garage sale where someone is selling Whitworth/BA tools, you'll have to pony up for some.

4) I don't know about the difficulty of restoration yet. The car *seems* simple enough. It *is* annoying trying to do any work with the way the front bonnet comes up (and doesn't really stay up).

We need someone in the US to create a set of bonnet props like that guy did in (Denmark?). Those were *cool*.

Good luck,
Scott
Scott Linn

Hi, D. A.! Yep, I really enjoy the '70 B, the split rear bumper isn't a big deal, but I think it's a nice detail. As for the steering wheel, I am 6' 2" and I have a permanently rubbed spot on the right leg of every pair of long pants that I own. Despite the leg rubbing, I think it's a very comfortable car to sit it.

The TF is a little tighter to get in and out of, but I'm getting used to the seating postion. I didn't mean to run down the TF in the previous post. In it's own way, it's just as much fun to drive as the B. As it is right hand drive, I'm still in the learning stage, and I sometimes get a little stressed when driving it, but it's a fantastic adventure. Folding the windshield flat on the 100+ F days here is also a plus.
Mark B.

David, Parts cost: have gone up a lot due to value of dollar vs. pound. Many parts very cheap compared to many other collector and modern cars. Very expensive: cranks, instruments,gears, body panels. Parts availability: probably the best since the cars were new. Virtually the entire car is available from Moss/Abingdon/ebay. Most everything else can be rebuilt. Restoration of the body: the wood could be a total nightmare. My limited experience: it took hours to replace three pieces on a TF, then a whole day to get the door to fit. Driving: In central Florida, forgetaboutit except on weekends. Totally too dangerous with the hulking SUV's and teens talking on cell phones. With rear gears changed, you can cruise at 60 with no problem. Very slow (0-60 in about 18+ sec I think), but seems very fast. Terrible aerodynamics- air swirls over the windscreen, and back from behind over your head- seems like you are flying. Brakes- very nice, stops well. Steering: rack and pinion, precice, with a lot of roll/understeer (keep those tires pumped up to 30!) A total blast to drive- kids, young and old always smile and wave!
George Butz

Mark, my B is a 76, not known as the bset of years when new and now that it is well worn perhaps not a fair comparison to my TD but those are my impressions. Just got back from our monthly club meeting -- driving the B at night in Memphis traffic, something I would not be as comfortable doing in the TD.
Dennis
D F Sexton

This thread was discussed between 18/07/2005 and 19/07/2005

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