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MG TD TF 1500 - Priming TD oil pump; help?

Hi All,

Last Thursday I started the process to get a '52 TD
started that hadn't been started since ~8 years ago.

The problem I'm having is how to prime the oil pump.
I've heard this is an issue in T-series cars, so I
want to do the right thing...

My TD doesn't have an oil priming plug like some of
the later cars do, but there is a bolt in the pump
head near the filter which I've heard can be removed
and oil poured in there to prime it. The problem I
have is that none of the sockets I have seem to fit,
and the Whitworth socket from the TD tool kit that seemed to fit already slipped once so the head of this bolt has already started rounding.

The bolt head is in a pretty hard to access place;
about the only thing that will get to it is an
appropriate socket on an extension. It isn't possible
to get at it with a wrench, vise-grips, etc.

I've also heard of people taking the oil pump apart
and coating the gears in vaseline for priming & better
suction, however the fender appears to be in the way
of getting the pump off. Anyone have any experience
with removing one of these, and can offer hints?

On the bright side, I pulled the plugs and the engine
easily cranked by hand, with no initial breaking
necessary, so the pistons weren't even remotely
stuck/frozen. The brakes also work (haven't bled them
yet though), the shoes aren't stuck to the hubs, and
the clutch isn't frozen either. So good news on a
number of fronts. I drained the engine oil &
transmission oil, both of which were pretty black,
even though both were changed 8 years ago just before
storage. Next up is the diff, cooling system and
brakes...

Thanks,
Scott Linn
Scott Linn

Hi Scott.

What I did was take the brass plug just above the pump out. I build a small pump with a pipe fitting that fits that hole. You can pressurize the whole system that way.

You can also use a turkey baster and fill the pump up with the bolt out.

You can take the pump out but you have to take the steering off at the lower junction, drop the steering wheel from the under dash bracket. You also have to take the front two bolts off and lift the engine so the bottom oil bolts clear the frame.
Bruce Cunha

Scott, there are many things that can be done to aid the pump in getting oil moving, but they may not be required.
Have you tried filling the sump with fresh oil and turning the engine over with the starter? It may well take a minute or so of cranking time (don't let the starter overheat), but you may find that the oil will come along. If the engine isn't running, you're not going to hurt it by turning it over with the starter with no oil pressure. If you can do so, I'd suggest that you fill the oil filter with oil before you begin.
Bud Krueger

Regarding Bruce's comment, that is the problem... The brass plug won't come out, and I'm worried about rounding it off even more than it already is.

Bud, I haven't tried the starter yet because I haven't replaced the battery until I know I want to try and start it.

Wouldn't hand cranking the engine a bunch (with the fresh oil that is already in there) do the same thing? I could pull the plugs, and hand crank many times (for minutes at a time) without worrying about burning out the starter.

As far as filling the oil filter before beginning, how do you recommend doing that when it sits horizontally and I can't open the brass plug? Before reassembling, I *did* soak the filter in new oil, and poured a little in the canister before refitting.

Thanks for the suggestions,
Scott
Scott

regarding vaseline..guys pack the pump with vaseline..fill it so they don't have to prime it on start up.before i pulled the pump..it is kind of a pain, i would do what the old timers did...tow the car with the key off, watch the oil pressure come up and when it does turn the key on and away you go. if you don't have a tow rope turn it over with the starter..leave the hand crank where it belongs...in the rack! good luck. tom
tm peterson

Scott - I have built up oil pressure from the oil in the sump using the crank - once! since then I have used a garden sprayer hooked up with a Brass T fitting from a late madle MGB that can be put in place of the existing fitting betweent he flex hose from the block to the fire wall where it transitions to the oil pressure gauge pipe. After hooking it all up, fill the sprayer with 4 quarts of oil, pump it up and watch the oil go into the engine, filling all of the oil passages and building pressure on the gauge. once all the oil is in, start the engine and go through the run in routine.

Since you already have oil in the sump, then the hand crank or the starter turning the engine over until you have pressure is the best way to go. The starter has to rest periodically to keep it from overheating. With the hand cranking method, you have to rest periodically to keep from overheating (a cold beer at hand helps here). Good luck - Dave
David DuBois

To remove the brass plug you should remove the dynamo and rear bracket, and then carefully file (filing downwards) the hexagon back into shape to suit a smaller socket, which may be whitworth, AF, or metric. It may be that you have to gently tap the socket onto the new hexagon. The plug can be replaced with a new part. Assuming you succeed with that, and pour oil in to fill the pump, then you should remove the spark plugs and either use the starter motor (with occasional rests) or get a tow, until the oil pressure builds up. Alternatively, you could leave the brass plug alone and just go for a long tow without the spark plugs, but you don't know how much of an oil film is left in the main and big-end bearings; filling all the oil passages sounds a good idea, and I'm sure there must be a plunger filling system on the market.
Roger Wilson

Forgot to say, after filing the brass plug, and before using the socket, it may be useful to heat the plug slightly with a soldering iron, allow to cool, and then cool with an ice cube on the top of the plug. Then immediately use the socket. Best of luck.
Roger Wilson

Scott

I have an extra of these plugs (I salvaged lots of extra little parts off my blown engine). Send me an e-mail off line and I will send it to you.

cunhab@charter.net
Bruce Cunha

This thread was discussed between 08/05/2005 and 11/05/2005

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