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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Possible new option for TD front disk brakes?

Yes, there have been several threads in the past (me included) about how to get/convert from drum to disk brakes onto a TD. I have been on the lookout for any reasonable inexpensive and mechanical easy method to gain some safety as my drums are near the end of life. Which is not good in mountainous Colorado! Most all "solutions" to date have involved either a conversion to wire wheels, replace with an MGA front end parts, or the expensive Wilwood adaptor system.

I just saw in this month's Totally T-Types edition (Issue #50, October 2018, page 2) an ad from NTD Motor Services LTD (Ipswich, UK) for a "disk brake conversion for steel wheels for TD, TF, YB".

Price is £581.25 or about $758 USD plus shipping (estimated at £125.00 or $163 USD) for a total of ~$921 USD

https://www.mgbits.com/contents/en-uk/p9220_Disc-Brake-Conversion---Steel-Wheel-Model.html

Website and catalog only has expansion picture and part list of all the parts. No assembly manual or other description.
I have emailed in a couple of questions to them, such as any assembly manuals, tire/fender interference or restrictions, VAT payment/process, reversibility, brake line connections. I'll post here if and when I get a reply.

Randy


R Biallas

Randy, thank you. I've been playing with the idea myself. I trust the Wilwood system but the expense was just too hard to bear. Looking forward to your nest post on the subject.


Tim
Timothy Burchfield

Thank you Randy, this is a very good news.
If you get contact with NTD Motor Services LTD it would be helpful to ask a couple of question mainly interested for European customers.
The safety regulation in Germany are very strict and needs a lot of paperwork before you get a stamp which is needed before installation.
I will obey this thread.
Thank you
GK Guenter

NTG are a very reputable supplier, and I have used them many times. Certainly not the cheapest, but definitely one of the best. If you have any doubts, call them up and discuss it.
Dave H
Dave Hill

GK,
Forget it!
I can assure you there will be no paperwork provided to satisfy the German TV for fitting disc brakes to a TD. You can't even get paperwork to fit a Moto Lita steering wheel in Germany. Even if God made the kit it would not be allowed!

Regards
Declan
Declan Burns

Randy,

I am all eyes and ears. Thanks for starting this thread.

Jim
James Neel

Randy,
Thank you for this post. I have also been looking for a reasonable solution for a long time for my TD.
I do have the Moss wire wheels and of course modifications to the hub and drum necessary to mount them but basically I have drum brakes.
Keep us all posted.
Thanks,
Mort
Mort Resnicoff


One correction, the company is NTG Motor Services Ltd.

Jim
James Neel

Oops, my too fast fingers, Jim! Yes NTG not NTD. Must be because of my TD and reflexive typing.

Yes will post any response. The sales person passed my question on to a Mike there.
Randy
R Biallas

Hi Declan,
slightly off topic
how do the German Hot Rodders get around TUV approval. I have seen many wild and wonderful German registered machines while on holiday.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Ray,
I'm not sure. Maybe they use the red garage plates which are not subject to TÜV approval. They can only be used for test runs and or going to car meets or shows but every trip must documented in a special log book for that purpose. You cannot use them for everyday driving.
When I bought my Morris Minor the previous owner drove on garage plates as he had several cars. I only agreed to buy the car with the TÜV cert and he didn't like it!

Four months later he rang me to say it had gone through the TÜV. The purchase was agreed.
It also varies from state to state and who you know and who you don't know.
There are other independent bodies such as "Dekra" who carry out inspections on behalf of the TÜV. They are a mobile outfit and much more flexible and they visit many of the local garages. Many of their inspectors are themselves classic car enthusiasts.
I had the TD over there about three weeks ago and the inspector didn't even sit in car. It wasn't even on the lift and he didn't even look underneath. He only tested the brakes (which need re-adjusting) and asked me to turn on the lights and then spent a half an hour talking to me about the car! I had been worried as to what he would say to the Ford T9. The TÜV would have taken the car and me (I'm in worse condition) off the road.
So two years more driving before the next visit!

Regards
Declan
Declan Burns

Ok all, some answers to my questions regarding the disk brake upgrade system from Mike Green at NTG Motor Services Ltd. (Telephone 0044 (0)1473 406031/32)


Q1) Is there some assembly manual available and can I get one (via download preferably ) so I can look at it to assess the degree of difficulty on doing the replacement myself?

A1 => "There is no manual for this conversion, but to briefly explain the procedure, the drum brakes are removed, along with the backplates and flexible hoses. The caliper brackets are then bolted to the stub axle, the calipers are then bolted to the brackets. The disc is bolted to the hub after fitting the new bearings and oil seal provided (the bearing spacer between the inner and outer bearings must be retained and used in the new hubs)."

Q2) As I live in the United States (Colorado) what are the shipping costs, timeframes door-to-door, any special paperwork or methods one needs to follow?

A2 => not specifically answered

Q3) How does the VAT process work exactly? Because I am in the US do I even need to pay it upfront at all? Or does one have to pay it then fill out a form and then wait, hope, and pray for a reimbursement?

A3 => "There is no VAT to pay when we send direct to the USA."

Q4) Is your replacement system totally reversible? If not what is not?

A4 => "There is no modification to the original parts on the car, therefore the process is completely reversible."

Q5) Is there any more details or description of connection to the brake lines?

A5 => "New brake hoses are provided which connect to the existing pipework, simply change them with the hoses on the car, the only difference is the thread on the end that connects to the caliper."

Q6) Is there any mechanical drawing or specs as to any clearance issues or restrictions for tyres or fenders?

A6 => The front track width is increased by approximately 1" (25.4mm) there is no restriction or clearance problem and is not really noticeable on the car.


Did pose another question about if anyone with a system would be agreeable to contact to see how the system works and satisfaction with it.

Randy

R Biallas

Well I sprung for a Kit.
I will document its installation when it arrives.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Great Jim B! Will be interested in how it goes.
My follow up question back to Mike Green at NTG about anyone with experience was "We don't have any feedback yet as we've only sold a couple of sets, and I have the conversion on my own TD."
Thinking I might also do this but maybe wait until next spring to do as won't most likely time to work on it till then.
Randy
R Biallas

Jim B count me among those who look forward eagerly to news of your installation of the disc brake conversion.

Thanks,

BobbyG
Bobby Galvez

NTD Shipped the Kit today.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Randy, I put MGA disc brakes on my TD many years ago. Got the parts from Quality Couches used. I have Dayton Wires on the car and did the conversion by myself, took about a day or so. no directions either..
TRM Maine

Tom, doesn't the MGA conversion also mean need to convert to wire wheels? At least that is what I have been lead to believe is required.
Randy
R Biallas

Package arrived at 5:25 today

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

That was pretty reasonable delivery time.
Thanks for keeping all of us posted on progress.
Looking forward to hearing your feedback on all areas, customer service, installation, and most importantly any improved braking!
Randy
R Biallas

Isn't it necessary to change the master cylinder as well? The diameter of caliper pistons is much greater than those in standard wheel cylinders so the pedal travel will increased. I know that if you update an early midget or Sprite with disc brakes from a later model the master cylinder must also be changed. Also I always thought there is no self servo action with disc brakes and a vac servo must be fitted. If you try to brake in a modern car with the engine turned off you really need to stamp on the pedal.

Jan T
J Targosz

The first cars with disc brakes had no servo - Triumph TRs particularly. I rebuilt one and the brakes were one of the best features (though the steering certainly wasn't).
Dave H
Dave Hill

Hi Dave,

The Triumph would have had a master cylinder matched to the disc brake set up. I know that mods need to be made to the master cylinder on Morris Minor when disc brakes are fitted. Due to the extra diameter of the caliper pistons the cylinder can run out of fluid.

jan
J Targosz

I am attaching a parts list so all can see whats in the Kit.
The calipers are listed as being off an MGB.
I suspect the wheel hubs are off something else, unknown, perhaps with longer wheel studs, because there is a 6 mm spacer to move the wheels out 6 mm on a side.

The shipping packaging left a lot to be desired. The container was quite beat up. No parts were lost, and it does not appear that any damage was done.

The calipers were in separate boxes, inside the outer container with some Poly sheets surrounding the outer periphery of the box. No shock packing on the top or bottom of the master container. The calipers had a lot of free room inside their respective containers probably unseen by NTG.

This allowed the calipers to bang about quite a bit.

I have appraised NTG of this.

There are no instructions as was mentioned. However it is fairly apparent where things go. I have an issue with one part.
I will show it in the next tab.

Jim B.



JA Benjamin


This appears to be a locking tab. On the parts list I "THINK" its "Locktab Caliper"? I have no idea how or where it goes.


Open for suggestions.

Jim B.


JA Benjamin

OK I found out what it is. I think
Moss Part 181-670. "tab Washer"
It goes under and between the two bolts that hold the calipers on to the spindle adapters.
Apparently the tabs are then bent over to prevent the bolts from loosening.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

We are looking at disc brake options for 5-stud TD drums and hubs also.

The Wilwood kit is nice IMO because it uses tapered bearings, a lighter vented drilled rotor and has 4-piston aluminum calipers for cooling. Un-drilled rotors are available as wanted.

Both kits install without modifications and can be easily converted back to stock. No harm no foul. The "to-your-door" price for the Wilwood kit is $1249 with un-drilled rotors.

Both kits widen the wheel base slightly (0.375-inch Wilwood to 0.500-inch NTG per side) because the rotor are close to the tie rod ends.

Wilwood can also supply (i) a proportional valve to ratio front and rear braking and (ii) drain back valves for the stock original master cylinder which is mounted lower than the calipers.



WHTroyer

Second picture:


WHTroyer

Jan,
I have disc brakes and a brake servo on my Morris Minor. The only modification to the master cylinder is to remove the top hat seal otherwise the brakes bind due to residual pressure.

Regards
Declan
Declan Burns

Today's Installment

I had written to NTG Last night.

1) To tell them about the less than adequate packaging.
2) To ask about the bearing spacer. (I did not pick that up in Randy's post.)
3) To note that the wheel studs a shorter than I would like due to the 6 mm spacers.

I received the following answer promptly this morning:

Hi Jim,
Thanks for your email and feedback. You should use the bearing spacer from the old brake drum/hub, there is no need for any shims. We have now labelled all our hubs explaining this. The bearing and oil seal arrangement is exactly the same as on the standard hubs, but as you know we supply new bearings and seals not because they are different, but for good engineering practice.
As to the wheel studs, we used MGB wheel nuts on my car for which the thread is long enough, I therefore need to carry a 7/8 AF socket to fit as the standard nuts are 3/4 AF, and have a "double chamfer."
In the future we will supply longer studs as you suggest, but if you would like us to send 10 MGB nuts free of charge, just let me know, or you could put a blob of grease into the end of the nuts to avoid corrosion.
Sorry about this, but hope that all is well otherwise.
With Regards
Mike

I have ordered 2 new distance pieces from AS.
I declined his generous offer of MGB wheel studs at this time. I dislike the idea of carrying an extra wrench. I MAY turn the ends of the supplied studs off to create MGB like nuts but with 3/4 AF hex.

One other note. The smaller front wheel bearing came pre-greased. The larger was just oiled. I have purchased full synthetic wheel grease and I believe I will clean the small ones off and re-grease them .

I am waiting for my son to bring up the wheel puller. I may wind up getting another one.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin


The only modification to the master cylinder is to remove the top hat seal otherwise the brakes bind due to residual pressure.

Declan:
NTG did not, so far, mention this.
Could you give me some more details?

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Hi Jim,

Check on the Morris Minor Disc Brake sites. The Morris uses a similar master cylinder to the MG and there is lots of info, including pictures, on line.

Cheers

Jan
J Targosz

Jim,
Here's what comes with the Morris Minor kit.
It is a small rubber seal and is buried. I didn't even see it the first time when I took the cylinder apart and of course the brakes did bind. It is a lot more difficult to remove the master cylinder on a Morris Minor. In fact it is one of the worst jobs to have to do.
The TD is child's play in comparison.

Consult NTG though-it is their kit but I imagine you will have to remove it. It is also known as the valve cup seal and is item 11 on sketch M2 in the WSM.

Regards
Declan



Declan Burns

Thank you Declan.
I will Query NTD on this as you suggest.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

FWIW,
I sent the following email about my TD to NTG:

Re: Disc Brake Conversion - Steel Wheel Model
K950FS
I have previously converted to wire wheels using Moss Motors Kit 111-328.
Is K950FS the correct kit?
Do I need any additional parts?

Their reply:

Good morning Sir

No the kit you will require is K950FW which is under development and almost ready. We are just waiting for the machining on new hubs and should be ready mid December this year.

The kit K950FS you mention is for the steel (plain) wheeled TD which has just gone online and is proving very popular. The wire wheeled one is the next addition and as I say, almost ready.
This has not yet been added to the website Sir, but if I get a chance over the weekend I will upload, but I will keep your email on file and drop you a link once done.
With Regards
Paul Banyard
Telephone 0044 (0)1473 406031/32
NTG Motor Services Ltd (estab 1966)

If nothing else they are very polite.

Mort
Mort Resnicoff

Randy, I also used MGA wire hubs
TRM Maine

Three things are slowing progress.

1) There will be a few warm days left this year and I do want to view the foliage while tooling down the road wit the top down.
2) mu son who lives 60 miles away has not brought back the hub puller.

3) While the kit does come with wheel bearings, it does not contain the distance piece. Since I cant pull the old hubs yet. I cant assemble the new ones.

PART 1.

I ordered up two new distance pieces from Abingdon. They arrived today.($44.25 with shipping) I had greased up the new bearings with Full Synthetic wheel bearing grease two days ago and I decided to start.

The new hubs are VERY nicely machined from Aluminum.
(Upper left frame of the picture)
The bearings are a light press fit. I lightly oiled the bearing wells with MT-90 and went to the Hydraulic press.
Bearing careful to align the bearing with the hub I pressed the small outer bearing in first. DO NOT USE EXCESSIVE FORCE. JUST FIND BOTTOM AND STOP. Be sure the socket is just touching the puter race, Not the bearings or inner race.
(Left: Second Frame down)
Next the larger (rear) bearing needs to be pressed in. BUT the distance piece must go between them> I visually aligned the parts for the first hub, BUT as you might expect,the distance piece shifted a bit. I was able to correct its position and the next time I inserted a deep socket into the front bearing before pressing to keep things aligned.
(left(bottom Frame)
The studs stick out past the front hub boss.
You do not want to press on the studs.
I used a scrap triangle of aluminum to lift the boss off the press.
(Left third down)
Again I used some large sockets which bare on the Outer race only to press the bearing into a lightly oiled socket.
(Right: Second frame down)
The rear bearing with the properly aligned distance piece is in the top. That very small lip is for the grease seal.
I am not sure its correct but the seal sticks up about 1/32 past the boss.
We will see.

Next step is to bolt on the Discs. There are 4 counter-bores in the hub. (Left top). The bolts have shoulders on them. They are UNF 3/8. In the kit there are 16 of them. $ for each wheel Hub and Disc assembly and 4 for each caliper adapter/holder.
They come with a Split lock washer and a nut.
I decided to orientate the bolts so the nut and lock washer were in the counter-bore. However I did not like the split lock washer. It was thin, lightly plated, and I did not like it being next to un-treated Aluminum. I have sat through too many MDR's (mechanical design reviews) to let that one go.
Also the bottom of the CB was Soooo! nicely machined I could not bring myself to gouge it with a lock washer.
I went down to the local ACE and got 16 SS flat washers. (Another ($9) They were 7/8 OD. The CB is 1". They fir Fine.
I already had 3/8 split lock washers. You will need two 9/16 deep sockets and drives to do this.

I tightened by hand but tomorrow I will torque to 30 Ft-lbs.
Note that in bottom Right I have just about 3 threads showing. Even with the flat washer and the thicker split lock washer This is just about MIL-Spec.

Total time so far is around 3 or 4 hours.

Hub puller should be here Tuesday or Wednesday, but I need a color tour first.

Jim B.



JA Benjamin

Jim B,

Would you please give me the stock # at AS for the distance pieces. Great write-up so far.

Thanks,
Jim N.
James Neel


AS # 19-050. Distance pieces

They are under Chassis not suspension Parts.

https://abingdonspares.com/collections/mgt-chassis

Jim B.
JA Benjamin


Do NOT remove the valve cup seal. If you do you will not be able to maintain a hard pedal. From the voice of experience.

Jim N.
TD28423
James Neel

Please explain "valve cup seal".
Part #; Diagram #?

Jim B.

Update.
No much progress. Waiting for a good day to drive through "South Mountain Reservoir" with leaves in color.
Next Wednesday forecast to be 60+ and sunny. Perhaps lunch in Livingston. (NJ).
Then I will put the car on jackstands and remove the old components.

My son has delivered wheel puller.

Distance pieces arrived. Hubs are fully assembled including discs.
I did add a thin layer of Silicone grease between the Aluminum Hubs and the CI discs hopping to minimize corrosion.



JA Benjamin

Do NOT remove the valve cup seal. If you do you will not be able to maintain a hard pedal. From the voice of experience.

Jim N.
TD28423

Did you then add a 10 psi residual brake line valve for the rear drum brakes and a 2 psi residual valve for the front disc brakes? Both are recommended for the conversion to (i) counter the brake drum springs and (ii) prevent pad drag on the disc brakes respectively.

The approximately 10 psi valve in the master cylinder (the removed part) causes the disc pads to drag if not removed. Then, it should be replaced by the residual line valves mentioned above.

Regards, Bill
WHT

Where to find "residual line valves" if needed?

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

Jim,

You can do a search for "residual brake line valves" or go to a brake supplier like Wilwood. The drums require a 10 psi valve to counter their springs (keep them from retracting fully). Disc brake require about 2 psi to keep the pads off the rotor. This will give a more solid pedal.

Regards, Bill


WHT

Second Picture"



WHT

Third Picture:



WHT

All

The emailed Mike at NTG the follwoing question on the master cyclinder questions being discussed. And follows is his response. Don't know if this helps or further muddies the waters.

My Question:
"A question has surfaced (and maybe the purchaser has already contacted you about it) about whether or not a slight modification or add-ons to the master brake cylinder to address the purportedly unequal pressure between the rear drums/shoes and front disk pads. Evidently people have run into issues when drums/pads are mixed. The pads needing less pressure tend to stick and bind up because the pressure to the back drums is greater.
Some people advocate the addition of pressure relief valves to the master cylinder to equalize the pressures. Others say to remove a cup seal ni the master cylinder. Others say don't do that, it'll bind up the brakes.

SO, what did you have to do to avoid this situation? Or did you do nothing to the master cylinder. Do you not get the front pads to not release properly?
Thanks again"

NTG Response:
"Thanks for your message, we welcome the feedback.

In the 1970s I fitted MGA1600 disc brakes to a YB saloon (sedan!) which has the same braking system as TD/TF. I made no changes to the master cylinder or any other part of the system and I used the car daily for many years including family holidays etc., and never experienced any trouble at all. My TD has only done a couple of hundred miles, but all seems fine without any changes to the rest of the system.
We have also sold over 20 conversions for MG Magnette ZA/ZB over the last 3 years again without any changes beyond the front brake assemblies, again without any problems.
We are also preparing a full instruction sheet to include with the kit.
I hope this helps with your continued interest in our product."

Randy
R Biallas

I have checked for drag often and have yet to encounter any....your results may vary.
L E D LaVerne

Well, the laws of physics (and gravity) probably work the same in both locations.

If you do remove the valve in the master cylinder, the primary problem is to prevent brake fluid draining back into a low mounted master cylinder designed for drum brakes with heavy springs. The master cylinder is mounted lower than the wheel cylinders.

The disc brake pads are partly retracted by their rubber boots and only require about 2 psi to prevent drain back. As the boots age, they do not retract the pads as much.

If you don't remove the valve in the master cylinder, it will apply too much pressure to the disc pads. Some people either ignore this or do not realize it is occurring.

Regards, Bill
WHT

Additional comments:

If you do remove the valve in the master cylinder, the primary problem is to prevent brake fluid draining back into a low mounted master cylinder designed for drum brakes with heavy springs. The master cylinder is mounted lower than the wheel cylinders.

If you don't remove the valve in the master cylinder, it will apply more pressure to the disc pads than intended. Maybe the MG caliper cylinders have more friction or stronger boots than more modern efficient brake systems?

Also, wire wheel cars often have more rotor "wobble" than cars with good/straight conventional steel wheels. Any very slight deflection in the rotor (not enough to be noticed when driving) will cause caliper cylinders with stiff boots to retract because they are pushed-back into the caliper. This will cause the pedal to soften slightly and is a recognized problem with some modern high performance brake systems. But, you would not observe pad drag when push-back is present.

One of my cars is capable of going 190 mph and I have put considerable effort into its braking components.

Regards, Bill
WHT

push back does not "soften" the pedal it just increases pedal movement before the brakes work. As drum brake shoes wear this happens naturally and you get used to it.
The low position of the M/C will not cause drain back as once the brake lines are full of fluid it is a closed system.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Thank you Bill.

All of your informative pictures have been saved to my Disc Break Conversion file.

But remember, The TD uses a single cylinder MC. Not a dual.
Getting two single relief valves with different pressure settings may not be all that easy.
Also The Wilwood fittings will not be British Sstandard. Perhaps UN or Metric, either requiring some brake line work I am not presently equipped for.


Randy I also contacted NTG and received an identical reply.
My plan, at this time is to not modify the MC in any way and see what happens.
If I notice drag I will go further.
Jim B.
JA Benjamin


We put the check valve back in the MC and now the brakes work perfectly, firm pedal and no binding at rest.

Jim
James Neel

All
Mike at NTG emailed me some additional info/experience about the MC discussion I reported to him that's been going on in this thread.


Mike @NTG: "Just another thought about master cylinders, the seal kit for the MGA1500 (drum brakes) and the 1600 (disc brakes) has the same internal parts, therefore the makers never considered the removal of any item when discs were fitted. We've sold hundreds of these kits during over 50 years in business."

Don't know if this will clear up or further muddy the discussion. From reading all of the posts, it seems to me that the general opinion/thought is running, it shouldn't or rather hasn't been an issue in the past or on similar hybrid drum/disk systems.

I have plenty on my plate until next spring but I'll probably get a kit then. Just want to beef up my old, turned to the max, drums with something better for the foothills/mountain driving around me in Colorado.
I'll be monitoring Jim Benjamin's great installation reporting.

Randy



R Biallas

To all. what happens to the drain back if you install a resorvoar higher than the callipers,
whit a tube to the master cylinder.

Thoralf. NORWAY TD 4490
Thoralf Sorensen (TD4490)

Need some help.

The weather turned cold, so I put the TD up on stands and started the installation.

I stripped of the front drum brakes and cleaned everything up. I put the assembled disc and hub on the Right side.

The disc is hitting the tie-rod ends on turns. Communication with NTG has been very very good.
They are talking to engineering just now.

I had thought, perhaps, someone in the group, might have some insight.

if the tie-rod and ends is tilted forward there is clearance. However it returns to the "tilted to the rear" position and hard turns,

But I do note that the steering Arm (Moss 264-040/050) is “bent” to the right toward the disc.
I believe this is correct from looking at Dave's pictures.

I think they could be swapped but I don't think there is enough adjustment on the tie-rod ends to accommodate this.

NTG suggests they may be bent?

I am using the older (original) style tie-rod ends with the metal shields.

Suggestions? Help!

Jim B.



JA Benjamin

Perhaps a dumb question but have you checked your toe in / toe out?

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

I am pretty sure I did that about 1 year ago, when I changed the steering boots.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

I just called Abingdon


spares.
Their replacement tie-rod ends measure the same diameter as the ones I have.
Strait replacement will not gain anything.
I wounder if I could grind a bit off the side/back of the end.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin

I think that your steering arms may have a slight twist in them causing a lean out at the extreme end. My car had at some time in the past had a crash on one side that had bent the king / swivel pin and twisted the steering arm. I replaced thr king / swivel pin with new, but the steering arm I had to reform to match the other side, new not being available. This was easy to do by removing the ball joint and wheel, putting a 12" adjustable spanner across the flats of the steering arm end and then using a jack under the end of the adjustable spanner to twist the steering arm, against the weight of the car, back to where it should be. On advice I did this cold.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Jim, I'd check the toe in again. Are you setting it to 0"? It's probably fine but I'd eliminate that possibility before moving on.

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

Jim B.,

It appears in your picture that the car is on stands or a lift. That will bring the tie rod ends closer to the disc. We found that when my car was on the ground there was enough, not much but enough, clearance and I have heard no noise while driving.

Jim N.
James Neel

Dave:
I think you may have hit it.
I, first, put a level on the front bumper.
As noted the car is on jack stands and I wanted to see if the car was level.
Yes; sort of,the bubble touched right side line.
Then using a square wit a level I compared how the tie-rod ends look.
In the picture I arranged the square/level so its level.
I see the Left (drivers) side end not having much of any twist.
I see the right side as having a slight twist and in the direction to give some rubbing.

Note I tried to make the square bubble as level as possible while juggling a camera and the level.

Based on that I will mount the left side disc and see if there is clearance.
If there is I will attempt to "de-twist" the arm.

Jim N;
I need to mount the left side disc to put the tires on the car.
So before any "de-twisting" I will try your suggestion.

Jim B.



JA Benjamin

Jim, you need to replace those tie rod ends. The rubber looks like it is shot.

Tim
Timothy Burchfield

Tim:
Those are original style tie rod ends.
The rubber was renued 3 years ago.
See discussion here.
https://mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/or17?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=8&subjectar=8&thread=2015082620593831991

The rubber is very minimal. You see 2 metal conical concentric rings.
Jim B.
JA Benjamin

You can just replace the rubber if the joints are good. The rubber being like that would be a fail on a road worthiness test here.
Dave H
Dave Hill

I didn't buy a kit but I suspect your kit contains the same pieces I used and if so you might want to watch my video and my solution...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sSWDJjVuDc
L E D LaVerne

Thank you LaVern.
Very informative.
I dont think I need to go that far.....yet.

I put the conversion disc on the left side. (Trouble is with the right side.)
on the jacks there is NO rubbing, all the way left and right. About 1/8"+ of clearance Rotor to tie-rod end.
I mounted the two tires, removed the stands and lowered the car to the floor. The tie to disc orientation changes a bit.
No rubbing on a hard right turn but a slight rubbing on a hard left turn.
Any clearance is less than 1/16", I cant get a dental pick between the tie-rod end and the disc.

I have ordered new tie-rod end rubbers from McMasters. They should be here tomorrow, I will replace them and while the right end is removed I will try to de-twist the steering arm a bit.

I don't think it needs much.

Jim B.
JA Benjamin


Using Dave Hill's suggestion and method, the problem is gone
See attached collage.

Leaving the left wheel on the ground I put a jack stand under the right, offending, wheel. I removed the tie-rod end.
I put a 12 adjustable across the steering arm Flats and with a floor jack twisted the steering arm. (Top frame.)

It twisted quite easily and it was done cold.

I went from 5 to 6 to 7 cranks on the jack handle until I got a suitable gap between the disc and the rod end.
The second and third frame show clearance on far right and far left positions with the tie rod rotated to the rear of the car, as close to the disc as possible.

As soon as the new rubbers arrive I can mount the calipers and start bleeding.

I will now need to reset toe-in.

Thanks to all for your comments.

Jim B.



JA Benjamin


After 6" to 8" of interruption from mother earth, I finally got all of the assembly done.
Now for some bleeding and we are through.

I need to write up the second half of the effort and post it. Give me a few days.

Jim B.


JA Benjamin

Well done Jim B. You are going to love the way it stops, almost as if you have power brakes.

Jim N.
James Neel

Jim Looks impressive. Looking forward to your writeup!
Thanks for being the first! Hopefully will do the same next spring/summer.
Randy
R Biallas


Assembly Part2, First of 3 posts.

With the preliminary preparation work done Its time to proceed. Place blocks behind the rear wheels. Secure the emergency brake. Jack the car up and install two jack stands.
As shown in the top-left frame, remove the dust cover.

Next relax the brake shoes. This is accomplished by aligning the hole in the drum at (around) 10:00 or 4:00 o’clock. With a light you will see a SLOTTED STUD. Rotate drum so the stud in in the middle of the hole. Then by inserting a large screw driver into the hole in the drum, and rotating the screw driver CCW, there will be a series of clicks. Rotate as far as you can easily go. (See top right frame).
Then, remove the cotter pin on the brake drum/wheel bearing securing nut and remove the nut (1” Socket). Save the nuts for the future.
NOTE: The RIGHT-side nut uses RIGHT hand threads and the LEFT-side nut uses LEFT hand threads. Do not get the nuts mixed up.

You will most likely need a puller to remove the brake drums, hub and bearings. The lower left frame shows mine. It makes an easy job of getting the bearings off the stub axle shaft. One note, Mine has a center, the axle does not have a center hole. To avoid dulling the center, I have added a couple of washers between the screw and the stub axle. You can just see them in the picture.

Jim B.



JA Benjamin

Second section Part 2

With the drum off I removed the backing plate assembly, shoes, springs, brake cylinders and hoses as an assembly. It’s held on with 4 BSF 3/8” bolt. (Bottom right frame of the first group of photos.). There is a nut and lock washer on the back. You will need a spanner/wrench along with the socket. Here is a hint on removing the old brake hose. ( Top left frame of the second collage). Start by leaving the large nut securing the hose to the bracket tight. Try to loosen the brake line fitting, (1/4” BSF). If the small nut turns, without twisting the tubing, good. ( A small amount of Dot 5 sprayed on the nut may help.) If so back off the tubing fitting nut one or more turns. This may cause the brake line to move back. Then loosen the large nut holding the hose to the bracket. This will relieve the pressure on the metal line. Work the line and the hose fittings until the hose is clear. Leave the large nut and lock washer fall down the brake line. They will be reused and that’s a good place to store them.
The flange on my stub axle had paint stuck to it from the old backing plate. I cleaned it up with a small wire brush on a drill, along with the bearing surfaces on the axle. (Top left frame in the second Collage)
The special caliper adapter plates are now attached. (Lower left frame on the second collage.) They are not marked L or right. The proper position puts the Caliper to the rear and slightly tilted clockwise, (on the right side of the car, vis on the left). The plates are secured with, provided AF bolts, lock washers and nuts. Not shown, but I did add a thin SS washer under the bolt head and silicon grease on the shank to limit corrosion. I also use 30-Lb-Ft of torque. (In the frame, the caliper is just there to see how it fits. It should not be there just now.) Also note that there is a thick spacer that must go on before mounting the Disc/hub/bearing assembly.

Next the Disc and hub/bearing is placed on the stub. Insure you have the spacer in place. This should be wiggled while pushing in to allow the stub to extend enough to screw on the axle nut and washer one or two turns. You can then use a socket (1” AF) to tighten the nut. ( Remember RH on Right side, LH on Left side).
The WSM says 50 Lb-Ft but the castellations need to align with the cotter pin hole in the axle, It could be a bit more or a bit less.
For those of use used to the, relative, ease of cotter pin removal on drum brakes,
These are tight. The pin needs to be turned flat and lightly tapped with a punch to get it past the lip. Bending over the split end is also difficult. (Bottom left frame of the second collage.)

Jim B.



JA Benjamin

Second Section: Part 3

Next, we assemble the Caliper. Just as LaVern did I heated the copper washers to anneal them. I used a BurnsOmatic torch with the washers on a steel plate and heated until the copper discolored. Shown in the upper left frame of the third collage. (Oh yes I did replace the bleeder with a self bleeder having an internal valve.
The caliper is secured with two, supplied, AF bolts that I torqued to 30 Lb-Ft. ( top right frame of third collage).The open end of the brake hose is now fed through the securing bracket hole. HAND start the fitting on the metal line. If it does not start easily and screw in several turns by hand, you may be cross threaded and you should start over.
You can now slide up the large toothed lock washer and nut (15/16 AF) thread them on, by HAND, and then tighten. Finally tighten the metal brake line fitting, ¼ BSF.
The, supplied, brake shoes are now easily inserted. There are, supplied, retaining springs and cotter pins. You may need to fiddle with the springs to get them seated properly. (Lower left frame)
That’s it except for bleeding, which remains to be done.

Let me know if I forgot anything.

Jim B.



JA Benjamin

Oh yes, I forgot. Holding the caliper are two AF bolts. These do not have lock washers. There are, supplied, Two dumbbell shaped pieces that go under the heads of the bolts, and then, after torquing, the tabs are bent over, to prevent the bolts from unwinding.

Jim B.


JA Benjamin

I have converted to Disc brakes on my TF. I have a problem with the disc brakes not releasing. I have the master off the car and all of the vent holes are clear. Is the solution for me to just remove the small seal as indicated earlier in this thread?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Rick
Rick

This thread was discussed between 01/10/2018 and 13/02/2019

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