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MG TD TF 1500 - Latest Oil Advice?

I have rebuilt my engine, well actually Nick O'Donohoe did. What is the latest on getting a good high zinc regular oil to break it in? I think I will eventually go with Red Line synthetic, but understand I need petroleum based to break in. Any thoughts? After reading all the latest I am confused as to what is left on the market in petroleum that has the good stuff?

Keith in NJ
Keith Murphy

Keith

This site is showing details of vigin oil analysis for ZDDP identification

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

Redline may be bringing out a break in oil which I assume will be normal mineral. Certainly avoid Redline for break in as high ester content of RL oils may compete with ZDDP for surface.
Paul

I just used rotella and have about 3 miles on the breakin. It is available at Advance or Walmart. Good luck

tim
tim

I used 20/50 Valvoline racing oil for break in. now running Castrol 20/50 GTX.
LaVerne

My auto parts house told me that Shell RotellaT has the higest zink level of anything they can get. I note in the above link that it has higher zink levels than others, but not near as high as most.

Anyone know what an acceptable level is for a new engine? Would 15/40 be ok for breakin?

Bruce C.
BEC Cunha

Bruce, I don't think the viscosity matters as much as the non-detergent to avoid keeping contaminates in suspension. Check out the break-in procedures shown on the website that Paul provided a link for, from LN Engineering. I've been breaking in my boat engines like that for years, and always get good seating. Justmake sure you have enough z and p in your oil, and give the engine some good hard acceleration runs.

good luck,
dave
Dave Braun

The site that Paul in the UK reccommends - http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html, is a goldmine of information on ZDDP and engine break-in.

The latest up-date is March 26, 2007, For those contemplating breaking in a new engine, this reading is a must.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.

Gordon A. Clark

Hi,

I drive an MG TF and have misplaced the manual.

What oil do you recommend as I need to do an oil change?
Rich

If you mean a '1954 or '1955 mgtf... 20/50 seems to be recommended although there are a few other choices. If your TF is newer then that, you might try the 'new' TF forum.
gblawson - TD#27667

I had my engine rebuilt and was told to run only 50 wt racing oil. no 20-50. 50 wt racing oil still contains needed ingredients to lessen friction.
J FLESHMAN

You know... a company like Castrol could make out like bandits if they produced a 'vintage' oil .... and actually advertised it.
Tried to send them a note and their 'contact us' field holds 500 characters...(you know how I run on!!!!!) Anyway...couldn't get it down to that and just said F...it!!!
gblawson - TD#27667

that site seems very good, however those tests were done a while ago, if you check Castrol's web site now and download their MSDS, good old GTX 20W50 no longer lists ZDDP as an ingrediant.

As for Rotella, there are two types, CJ rated and CL/SL rated, Advance stocks the CJ which does not have sufficient ZDDP, the bottles are identical, you have to read the ingredients really carefully.

The recommended levels ate 1200ppm of P and 1400ppm of Zn, the closer you get to those the better.

All oils are changing, manufacturers are all dropping zinc in just about everything they make, the only oils that seem to be guaranteed to have the ZDDP we need are the off road oils, Redline etc.

Now, where can I buy Redline?

The Wiz

Gordon

Castrol do just that - produce a classic range

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/subsection.do?categoryId=9014105&contentId=7027417

David
David Wardell

Oops... thanks...sent an email asking about zinc?
gblawson - TD#27667

Unfortunately Castol Classic is not available in the USA.

The Wiz

I've mentioned it on another thread, but I use 20W-50 Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oil (in the gray bottle). It is designed for 'high performance passenger cars' and lists the zinc right on the bottle (forget the amount but I seem to remember its more than other brands I've checked). Valvoline makes a different racing oil for 'true' race cars (in the black bottle), if there is the concern that it won't last beyond a few runs around the block. I bought mine at Advance Auto.

Bryan
52 TD MkII
B Sieling

Another item I found. Moss lists a Cam & Lifter Break in Concentrate. It supposedly had the added zink needed. I tried to order itm and found that Moss is no longer stocking it.

I know that people from Moss read this, so perhaps you can assist us all and come up with an Oil or Additive that would meet our needs for breakin.
BEC Cunha

Picked up a pint of GM EOS recently and the parts person asked me what I was going to use it for. When I told him that it was going in my 1953 MGTD he said OK. He also said that the EOS bottle has been recently redesigned and now states that this product is to be used as an assembly lube and they do not recommend that EOS be added to the oil. The GM P/N 1052367 remains the same.

Jan
Janson Hurd

Jan

Sounds like politically correctness.
BEC Cunha

The lack of ZDDP is not a break-in issue. It's an ongoing problem for the contact area between the lobes of the camshaft and the flat surface of the follower. Your car's everyday oil should have the higher ZDDP levels. Personally, I've switched to Valvoline VR-1 20W-50 Racing Oil.
Bud Krueger

" ...but I use 20W-50 Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oil (in the gray bottle). I bought mine at Advance Auto"

Bryan,

If you have an Autozone nearby you might want to do a bit of comparison shopping. At $2.79/qt. locally, Autozone is $.50/qt. cheaper than Advance Auto.
Carl Floyd

I know we have beat this one to death folks, but I have a brand new engine that I just spent two years (and $$$$) to get going. This issue really has me concerned.

All the lists I have seen with Zinc and other compound levels appear to be outdated. Do any of the manufacturers list this information?

I trust this group, but there are a lot of differing opinions on what works.
BEC Cunha

Base oils and additive packs can be interchanged with no minimum ZDDP content and zinc is not essential.

If you phone Dave at Redline he will tell you the ZDDP content of RL products.

1960s oil contained less and more primative ZDDP than current SM oils. In general Diesel Bike and Race oils contain more ZDDP than a std road oil.
This oil probaly has highest ZDDP content
http://www.maximausa.com/
This oil has none
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/performance_lubricants/pdf/fuchs/TITAN_GT1_SAE_5W-30_BMW_LL04.pdf
Paul Wiley

If you want to be safe and are willing to spend the money, just head to your nearest Harley Davidson outlet. They demand that you use their oil to maintain the factory warranty. Two reasons. One, they get to sell you the oil and most likely the labor to change it. Two, and this is of interest to us, The hogs require (at least at this time) the zinc protection that we are all looking for. So give your local HD (that stands for high dollar) dealer a call and discuss the matter with them. I'm sure they would be happy to sell you some $ 10.00 a quart oil.

LaVerne
LaVerne

Keith here, I started this thread. Looks like the VR 1 racing oil may work. I ended up finding some )old) Chevron Delo 400 that had the cL not the CJ designation, and that has the right amounts. I bought all they had, as I suspect the new will not have it. Rotella is now in a white bottle and is CJ not CL and has lowered the Z an P. I will alos add the GM EOS.

Keith
Keith Murphy

Hi All:
A service shop in our area has been using Delco oil additive EOS. This has resulted in tests showing high zink levels when oil is sent for chemical analasis after an oil change. Good enough for me I will be adding it to the: Norton, Triumph TRW, 2 TFs, MGB, Tiger and Mini convertable at oil change time.
Godspeed in Safety Fast
Jc
John Crawley

Was rechecking the site http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

They updated the data. Kendal vintage appears to be one of the higher of the standard oils. (although the data is from 2005)

I did find STP red and got the GM OES, so should be good to do the breakin this week.
BEC Cunha

Can I try this one on you gents?

I've always been a real believer in the large viscosity range of synthetic oil. I run Castol Syntec 5/50 in everything around here as it covers all climate conditions and will additionally deal with the oil temperature extremes of some of the hot-rodded turbo and high-rev motorcycle stuff around my place.

I understand now the conversation about the importance of a zinc additive - what about adding the GM/Delco EOS to Syntec 5/50 for the XPAG? Would I end up with the combined benefits of wide viscosity range and zinc protection?

In our turbo-Miata [12 pounds boost when cranked up, enough power to pull 7200 in top gear] oil temp will reach 220 during a good flogging, and I'm concerned that when I go out and stomp on the pressurized XPAG that the oil will get similarly hot and I'll need that 50W viscosity on the hot end.

Once the rings are seated does this sound like a reasonable course of action? After all this blood and sweat, I don't want to have to replace a camshaft a year from now. But I also want to have an engine that I can feel secure in running at 4500 - 5000 at 6 pounds boost from one full gas tank to the next.

Thanks, as always,
Dave J.
Dave Jorgensen

Dave:
I was in Ken's shop and saw your engine being built. I would ask him about EOS and Syntec compatability. He is who told me about ESO and he will have an oil chemistry test done to verify what is happening in your engine. We can post Ken's answer to the list. Would you please send me your e-mail address as I seem to have lost it.
Jc
John Crawley

Dave

10W70 with "Zinc" content stated

http://www.penrite.com.au/files/HBPH2CIKGF/SIN%20EngineOil%2010.pdf

Be aware that these oils shear and Castrol Syntec is probably a group III mineral oil although XHVI, however in Canada I assume you need the 5W for flow.
Paul Wiley

20/50 is probably the most popular up here (Canada)...at least for the moment. 5W would be for pretty far north even here!
gblawson - TD#27667

This thread was discussed between 23/03/2007 and 03/05/2007

MG TD TF 1500 index

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