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MG TD TF 1500 - K&N Filters for Volks AC ~TF~

Thought I'd but this up as a new thread.

I have been a big fan of K&N filters for sometime. As may (or may not) know they do not make one to fit our Volks air cleaners.

Purchased an E-3310 filter yesterday. ($30.00)
It's too tall (3") and the rubber ring does not quite fit.

That is the orginial element next to it. Does not show well here ...but pretty rusted up.


David Sheward

Somebody might have a better idea for cutting it ...but this is what I used. Angle grinder in a vise with some wood clamped on bench to get the "height" right.

The "centercut" went like "butter".
To get the 1.25" I cut into the rubber a little bit on the other 2 cuts.
Don't do this in the dinning room! Makes a mess and some "smoke".

Not the first thing on the MG involving "smoke" so no big deal!


David Sheward

Very impressive David and good thinking. It appears that the single K&N was of sufficient thickness to provide you with two filters. Correct?

John
John Brickell

Worst part is a bit messy but it works.
Still need to clean up my "screens" (they are a little rusty also). Plan on running those through the beed-blaster and giving them a shot of clear-coat so they stay nice and will need to give the K&N's a good cleaning.

Guess it all depends how bad you want the K&N elements as to if this is worth the hassle. Personally I run them in my other cars and have been happy enough with the resulats that I thought it was worth the effort.

My carb throats were filthy after running only 3000 miles after last cleaning with the S&H that were on the car. I have run those since I have owned the car but this will be the first time with the Volks back on. Will be a while till I find out as I'm waiting on my exhaust manifold to come back before I can put it all back together.


David Sheward

John,
Yes ..that's why I went with that one! They make another that is only 1.75" tall. Price was the same!
This was a cheap way out. $15 a filter was very reasonable ...the ones for our Mitisbishi GT's were $80.00 a piece. Been on those cars for 15 years ...just recharge/clean them every so offten.
David Sheward

David : My compliments . I was planning to do the same but with a band saw. Your idea is much better.

I am planning to do it for the S&H filter housing and will try it with a K&N P/N, BM - 400 . The only thing I have to alter is a longer center bolt to keep the lid on. And cut the Filter to size ( 1. 3/4 planned )
I also will dip the rough saw edges of the filter in liquid rubber .Approx for 3 mm.
Will keep you guy's posted on progress. Have to find the filter here in Canada BC first.
Gerard Hengeveld

Tried a small "test cut" with a saw ...but it snagged the metal mesh in short order.
My plan is to dip them also on the rough edges.

Gerald, Is that the right part number for K&N?
I was curious to see what one you found for the S&H ...but that number did not return a flier from their site.

Think I may do the same for our TR with the S&H on it.
David Sheward

Hi Dave I made a typo in the part number ( just noticed ) must have had one of those elderly moments.

The correct P/N is BM - 0400.
Just got a mail from a company here in BC who has them in stock at CAD 49,95
Hope this helps.

Gerard
Gerard Hengeveld

reactive this thread
David Sheward 55 TF1500 # 7427

I use K&N #E-3212 in the Volks air cleaners on my MGA (2) and the TD with M/N supercharger (1). No fitting problem. Marvin
Marvin Stuart

Marvin,
I use a pair of Vokes air cleanres on my TD, with the 1 1/2 " carbs. They are 6" in diameter and 2" thick. Would the K&N filter #E-3212 you use, fit my housing?

George

George Raham [TD4224]

Yes ..... it appears they will fit the Vokes- may need a shim if they vibrate..

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?prod=e-3212
Dallas Congleton

Are they making these in different "thickness" now?
Could have sworn mine needed to be 1.25" to be able to use the "mesh" that goes around the casing.
David Sheward 55 TF1500 # 7427

reactive
David Sheward

Good day gents,
Been lurking here for a while now and thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.
I use a NAPA 2032 filter and with a 32 TPI hack saw, use the old filter as a guide, to slice in two. Just kept rotating the filter as I cut, to keep straight.
A piece of 1/8" closed cell foam (the stuff appliances come wrapped in) on the cut side makes for a good seal.

Cheers
Tim
TD Hall

reactive
David Sheward

Used "tool dip" to seal the cut side.
David Sheward

Morning Gang;

Thanks for all of the information. Now off to the garage to do something useful.

Dick
Safety Fast
Richard McCutcheon

Good Stuff David. K&N make good stuff. When I took my air cleaner apart for the first time I couldn't believe all there was is a wire mesh and a thin round fiberglass material that was crushed against the air cleaner backing plate. I have to take a picture to upload to share. I think all it is filtering is small rocks and little birds....

With these filters you made, how is the removal to re-oil the filter? I know it is a tight fit and evidence that I am missing the bolt to the front air cleaner that this is a major pain in the ass......

Frank
Frank Cronin

While we are on the subject of air filters, I've been wondering, does anyone recognize these? I suspect PO installed then during 1974-75 restoration. Second image to follow. No foam, just coarse metal (looks like copper or brass) screen. Just sufficient to keep out pebbles and small birds.

Jud


J K Chapin

... and the insides.

Jud


J K Chapin

Jud,
Almost got me ...was going to tell you that I think I recently saw a pic of a set of those on a TD.
Green car with black firewall & black valve cover.
At this age the mind remembers what it wants to, but redacts some info as well! LOL
David Sheward

David:

Sounds like my car - that's how it came. It was advertised online by Motoring Investments (San Diago) until I bought it last October.

Jud


J K Chapin

LOL ...yep that's the pic I saw!
David Sheward

Ractavate for L Spahr.
David Sheward

As an update: Been running these since 17 February 2012 and I would have to say well worth the small effort & $ that went into it.
Carbs are cleaner than ever and quite a noticable improvement in preformance.

Followed some friends in about a dozzen cars to The "Moonshine Car Show" yesterday. Mostly Muscle cars ...I was the only LBC. (SS396, 440 6-pack, several Corvettes, GTO, several street rods. ect).
Comming back on 2 lane road 55MPH we came across a neon doing about 35MPH. I think I surprised some of them when they got on it and passed the guy doing 85/90 Little Izzy was right there holding her own!
I turned off for home but should be interesting next time I see them ...got a bunch of thumbs up and honks from those in front as well as those behind me!
David Sheward

Interesting information. Can anyone with Volkes confirm that the K & N's mentioned by Dallas C. above will fit in the Volkes cans? 1.8 in thick.
Dallas says it "appears" they will fit. Anyone tired them?

Tom
'54 TF
T Norby

IMHO: May work if you leave the "mesh" off, or if it is wider than what mine was (1.25").
David Sheward

Well that didn't work!
Try this.
David Sheward

David: Try what? I would like to see an easy solution to this on my TF, but maybe cutting a K&N i two halfes is the way to go.

regards

Jan
Jan Emil Kristoffersen

Jan,
The "try this" was just me reactivating this old thread for Geoffrey M Baker. I tried to put a link to it in his recent thread: "dual air filters"...but it didn't work.
Geoffrey was contemplating putting the S&H pancakes on his TD to get better air flow.
There is some good info on K&N filters in this thread (model #'s) I thought he might like to see.
Seems some have found ones that work with no "mods" both with Vokes and S&H air cleaners.

Guess I'm just cheap...but the fix I did is still working great! LOL
Carbs are cleaner, and car runs better than it ever did with the S&H on it.
IMHO: Worth the $30 and the mess I made.


David Sheward

All of this is very interesting. Not sure what S&H means (shipping and handling is what comes to mind) but I'm learning a lot.
My 2 cents right now: The major thing about an air filter is to get the largest square area of filtration, thus reducing constriction on the air flow to a minimum.

Has anybody looked at or tried "Ram-Air"? They are a British company that makes a lot of claims about their units, what's interesting is the long rectangular units that will fit both carbs.
Here's an ebay one that will fit su carbs. 390535385370

My thinking:
1) a single long unit that fits both carbs offers the max airflow over two pancakes (or anyother configuration, I think)
2) the company claims 40% improvement over K&N filters.

Of course, I'm not entirely sure about fit.

Thoughts?

I'll attach a pic as well.


Geoffrey M Baker

S&H = Snellings & Hellings ...the commonly sold little chrome air cleaners many of these cars have on them.
These: (old picture)
I may have that name wrong.
The Ramair you show looks like a decent way to go.


David Sheward

Let me ask another question: none of these will fit my TD (I think) because of the angled radiator support bar. What do people do about this? I imagine I could fabricate a bar that would get out of the way, but am curious as to how others have handled it...
Geoffrey M Baker

My TD came from the PO without the passenger-side radiator brace and it seems to be holding together. Nonetheless, I bought a used brace from someone on this bbs (maybe Hugh P but don't recall). To accomodate the dry filters, the bar has been "pre-bent" to fit under the filters. I haven't installed it yet so I don't have any pics but others probably do.

Jud
J K Chapin

As there is some expandability on the bar (threaded end) it certainly can be bent somewhat. I think I'll go ahead and buy the ramair filter and then if the bar won't work I'll just get some longer stock, thread or tap it and bend it to fit around.

I was so impressed how much better the engine sounded without the stock filter on it that I feel a good air filter will make a huge difference, it will be worth the work. And I'll keep the stock filter so I can always remain "correct for the period" when I want to be... :)
Geoffrey M Baker

The S & H air filters strangle a TD with not enough area, and are a disaster on H4 SU's. They really decrease your engine performance in spite of a lot of people using them as a substitute for the TD Oil Bath filter.

The rectangular filters shown may not fit a TF because of the angle of the side panel on the front carb. Most flat filters won't fit. The Volks filters are angled to fit.
Don Harmer

I ran into the issue of the bent stay a couple of years ago.
I did not have a RH stay for my car. Pictures I have collected show the RH stay should be bent.
Checking both Moss and Abingdon, they list the same stay for RH and LH sides.
A board member was kind enough to send a picture of his. I scaled the picture and fabricated my own stay with the bend as scaled from the picture.
I did need to borrow a tubing bender from a friend.
The price of the piece of tubing, from McMasters along with shipping was 1/2 the price of a new stay.

Jim B.



JA Benjamin

I've ordered a ramair filter. I've got some angle iron I can use to make an angled radiator stay; I'll just cut it, bend it, and weld it. Should be as strong as the conventional tube.
Geoffrey M Baker

Hey Dave S
I suspect many of us don't have the capabilities to cut a K&N in half, but would like them for our TF's
Would you be willing to do them for a fee and cost of postage?
I have the original Vokes and am interested. Others? Maybe you could do a batch.

Tom
'54 TF
T Norby

Dave S and Tom; I would be interested in a pair as well!

Regards

Jan
Jan Emil Kristoffersen

That RamAir might work on a TD, but I doubt very much that it would work on a TF. The front would hit the side panel! As we all know, that's why the front Volks is on an angle.
I buy regular filters for the Volks air cleaners from Moss. Not worth my time to try to convert some after market filter to fit, for what reason, just to save a few bucks? All I do is just take them out of the box and replace them. I use Moss filters for the 72B also. Just my 1.5 cents. PJ
Paul S Jennings

JIm,
Is that your car in the picture that you posted ????

SPW
STEVE WINCZE

Paul, I don't know if Ramair will work or not, as nobody has tried it (at least nobody has spoken up about it). So I get to be the experimenter who does something new which may work brilliantly, or be a total failure. This isn't about saving a few bucks; the cheapest thing would be for me to do nothing. Buying an aftermarket cheap pancake set would be 2nd cheapest. This will cost probably as much as buying a vokes filter off ebay; but I don't even know how (or if) that will fit my TD. So maybe I waste some money; I've done that before :).

However, all I'm trying to do is maximize air flow into the engine, which is all to the good. Vokes are better than the standard basket filter on the TD; I'm just hoping that this will work better than Vokes. In my (albeit tiny) mind, it's all about square surface filter area. The Ramair being a long oval, offers more surface area than two small six inch circular filters; plus it adds the whole surface area of the front of the filter, which no pancake does!
Potentially, it could be a significant improvement.
As far as whether it will hit the cowling; I don't know. I ordered the smaller one (300 mm width longest length instead of 390mm) in the hopes it won't be a problem. If it is, maybe I can find a workaround.
I ordered a blank one, which means I'll have to drill it out to fit the carbs, and also find some way of affixing the valve cover breather hose to it as well.
It will be a simple, but fun project.

I promise to report back on whatever I find!
Geoffrey M Baker

David S:

I tried to order a K&N E-3310 from my local dealer but he says that he is unable to find this K&N parts number.

Could you please check that this number is the correct one?

thank you,

Jan
Jan Emil Kristoffersen

Jan ,
Definitely right part number.
Not sure about suppliers in Norway ...but google search it maybe?
I got mine from Jeggs stateside if anyone is looking over here.
Amazon shows it also.


David Sheward

Thank you David!

I found it too on Amazon, and now it is already ordered. Your method of slicing it into two parts seem pretty straightforward,

regards,

Jan
Jan Emil Kristoffersen

While we are on the subject of air filters perhaps someone can help locate Vokes back plate that is attached to rear carburetor? (plate without breather hole)

Boris
B Gruzman

There is a full Vokes set for sale on ebay right now.
Geoffrey M Baker

Jan,
It does make a mess...and you will need a can of "tool handle dip" to finish the cut edge. Air compressor to blow off the dust.

Guys ...I am so sorry ...just saw the post asking if I could cut these for some of you.
I can, but doesn't seem worth it for shipping back and forth when you consider you can buy an angle grinder from Harbor Freight for $14.00 and a can of tool dip for $4.00 that will do the job!
David Sheward

Geoffrey,

Thank you but Vokes that are for sale on e-bay have flat back. Original back plates was angled. I am looking for plates that attached to carburetor with angle.

Boris
B Gruzman

Thank you David, I have both the grinder and the air compressor at hand. One pint of plasti-dip in Norway: 35 USD!! Someone is making a living for himself importing the stuff....


regards,

Jan
Jan Emil Kristoffersen

reactivate
MG LaVerne

Not sure why you reactivated this thread LaVerne, but it reminded me that I don't think I've posted about my results using Ram-Air filters on my TD. So I might as well summarize my experience with them.
Ram-Air filters are British made racing air filters that claim to have the maximum square area and filtration rates over any comparable filters... which is to say the air moves through more easily and there is more area of filter than any comparable units.
I purchased a pair for my TD and installed them. They come in a wide range of sizes and shapes.
Here's my take:
They are great. The engine has always just sounded happier running with Ram-Air than the original oil bath, and stronger too. I am sure that the engine is putting out more HP thanks to not having to gulp air so hard.
They are cleanable, easily removed (two quarter turn pop bolts release each filter) and have an inner wire frame which should keep out serious dangerous foreign objects like stones or bolts or whatnot).
I highly recommend them over any standard pancake filter, and definitely over the original TD airbath.
When it comes to TFs, nobody has tried them yet that I know of, but I am convinced that you can get units to fit. (Ram Air sells four thicknesses ranging from 25-100mm thick, and a variety of sizes ranging from small round, one per carb, to large ovals to handle two carburetors). I would recommend you purchase a blank unit and drill your own carb holes, this would allow a TF owner to "drop" the filter down as low as possible to give clearance.
I'd love to see someone with a TF try these units out, I'm convinced they will fit!
Geoffrey M Baker

This is all good background for me as I'm looking for a better filter element to put in the Vokes filter body. The dimensions of the Vokes filter, i.e. the available space is 159mm OD x 30mm height. However to retain the existing metal mesh of the Vokes filter so that the appearance remains unaltered requires an ideal OD slightly less than 159mm. The E-3310 filter is 159mm OD so won't fit without trimming - I'm not sure how how fiddly this is as its not clear from the messages above, so I looked at all the alternative available K&N pancake filters (I have discounted those intended for offroad use). The candidates I found are E-2370 which is 156mm OD and 56mm height. Or E-3350 which is 154mm and 57mm height. Ideally they would be a bit taller, so that on cutting in two we could get 2 x 30mm filters, however assuming a slight loss from cutting it should be possible to get two filters of around 27mm height, which with sealing and packing the cut end should be OK. The ID will clear the fixing bolts, but some trimming may be required on the front filter to avoid the vent pipe. If someone can clarify the fit of the E-3310 filter it would help.
I looked at the Ram Air filters but they seem to have a completely different appearance, so not for me.
Dave H
Dave Hill

Fair enough Dave, they don't look period. I keep the old style bath filter for when I want to be original.
But I guarantee the Ram-Air will perform better than any pancake.
Geoffrey M Baker

K & N filters are highly touted to improve power and fuel mileage when installed on just about any car. If that is true why are they then not fitted to new vehicles where manufacturers are under the gun to eke out the last tiny fraction of MPG to comply with government regulations?
John Quilter

Agreed, especially when some other similar filters cost a lot less. You have to ask whether K&N are really worth the money.
Dave H
Dave Hill

One of my colleagues buys ALL of the performance enhancing items he can find for his truck, K&N included. Adding the percentage improvement each promises his truck should be making fuel and exceeding mach 1!

I tried to tell him the engine computer adjusts the mixture with no regard to the airflow therefore there's NO possibility of better mileage. The performance increase, if any, is likely hard to measure.

Perhaps on our carburetor equipped antiques there's something to be had but........
JE Carroll

This thread was discussed between 17/02/2012 and 22/01/2016

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