Installing the upholstery on the rear fender wells | MG TD TF 1500

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MG TD TF 1500 - Installing the upholstery on the rear fender wells

I have checked Dave's pages and the archives.
I am having a lot of trouble putting the upholstery over the rear fender wells.

I have used Thermo-Tec 14125 - Thermo-Tec
Thermo-Guard FR Heat Shields sound deadening and insulation on them.

I believe this is the same product Dave B. used.
I used Thermo-Tec 12005 - Thermo-Tec
Heavy Duty Spray Adhesive, the complementary adhesive.

I have screwed up one side (See top pix) and I will strip and redo it. Before I mess up the other side, has any one had a success story putting this on?
The upholstery kit is from Moss. The metal wheel arches are Abingdon replacements. The two do not fit well.

I had a "professional" upholsterer look at it and his suggestion was to start by putting adhesive on only a narrow strip just around the corner and when that was set then spray the other parts. (Bottom pix)

If I am going to get the vinyl part to fit its going to need a lot of heat gunning. And then I don't know If I can work out the remains of the wrinkles. Trying to fit the part to the well cold comes up with a lot of wrinkled. (Bottom Pix)

I would assume I start in the middle, and work out the remains of the wrinkles. to the ends as this will give me the shortest distance to remove wrinkles.
Another possibility is to have two new covers made, that better match the wheel wells.

I am stumped at this point. I have found out I am not an upholsterer however.

Also am I using the correct adhesive?

If I look at the Eastwood site they push 3M Supertrim adhesive 08090.

Help Please.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

Jim I was ok with the ones I did on the TD

MG LaVerne

Not so much with Bill's TC. I believe one thing I'd try is keep the seam on top of the fender. The other is try not to stretch the material. I'd also start by setting the seam line first and then work my way from the center to the out sides on the well. Just my novice advise.

MG LaVerne

Do You remember, if when you started on the TD, if you had wrinkles like I show in the bottom picture.
I do agree on having the seam on top and working from the middle out.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

I had the same problem so don't feel alone! If I were to do it again I would experiment with adding more upholstery padding over the insulation to smooth it out before I hit the glue.
I also found when you install the seat back supports the bolts really compress the thing.
I finally settled on mine as best as I could do. (Sorry, no pictures on this computer.) I have no idea how LaVerne got his TD to look so nice?
Ed

efh Haskell

Thanks Ed.

I will keep trying.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

Jim,

I had good success with plain old rubber cement, brushed on from a can. I used heat shielding insulation similar to yours for padding. I had some minor delamination problems in places from not letting the glue dry enough first, but got that worked out.

Jim

J Barry

Jim Barry;
The upholsterer I had in (He is going to do the seats) did not like cement in a rattle can. He felt the only good stuff was what you put in a spray gun.
I asked about contact cement in a can and he sort of dodged the question.
I do have a quart can I purchased for the job and I will give it a try, with a brush - not a spray gun.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

Hope you get your issue sorted Jim. Could it be that the wrinkles in the reflective material may be visible through the vinyl? Another factor may be the radius of the stitched join doesn't exactly mirror the radius of the curve? I'd planned to use the "apply cement to the two surfaces, let dry & then work from the centre out" method. Easy with kitchen benchtop laminates & a few thin sticks, but the curved surface here however is a real challange. Problem with the benchtop method is you only get one bite of the cherry. I've also been advised to use very, very thin padding. The thinner the better.

The TD does look good Laverne. My beige is an almost identical colour & if I can achieve your level I'll be more than happy. Curious about the breather holes in the back of the seat however. The handbook shows the vinyl cut out over the two holes but I've yet to see it on any restored cars here, or anywhere else for that matter. Easy to understand why people don't bother as it would probably look ugly. Strange that the TC ended up looking nowhere near as nice.. Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

I think I just got lucky on the TD. The TC is a different animal with all the things going on there. All I can say is it was a lot better than what was in there. As for the seat back holes. The original covering on this car had them covered. And I do believe they were original covers, so that's the way it went back together. I used some 3M spray adhesive. Don't remember which one. I have a half different ones in the shop for different applications.

MG LaVerne

Cannot comment on this process on a TD. When I did the arches on my TF I glued down 2mm high density foam prior to applying the upholstery. The foam base appears to provide a compressible base and on recoil tends to absorb the wrinkles.

If the profile of the arch does not match the radius of the stitched joint within restraints additional foam can be added to modify it.

I have had little success using pressure pack spray adhesives.

G Evans

I fitted upholstery wadding under the vinyl using spray contact adhesive but as Ed said the seat-back brackets squashed it down a bit so I used short spacers under the brackets to prevent this.
The vinyl was also fitted using the same spray adhesive.
I didn't have a problem getting the vinyl to fit as my wife is handy with the sewing machine and made them from scratch.

CJ Harvey

Looks good CJ. Bespoke beats one size fits all any day of the week. I've often wondered whether the trim over the rear guards should finish above or below the rear floor? Below & although road water may want to rot the vinyl, the floor would help to keep it in place. Above makes removal of the rear floor difficult. Anybody know how it was installed originally? Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Peter: Its above. There are two narrow black strips of vinyl that overlay the edge that are tacked to the wood.

Sorry I don't have a more complete picture but you can see how its folded around to cover the front edge and how the tacks are used.

Christopher Couper

Jim:
I know this pix looks funny but I use pot scrubbers as underlay when I do not want too much give in the final fit of vinyl. I could not get the usual large sheets so bought this at the dollar store and it worked great. Also I use the water soluble 3-m contact cement since it does not soften the vinyl. Also see next pix.

John Crawley

Pix 2

John Crawley

I sit on a Lowes garden pad. :-)

Christopher Couper

Well I have not yet attempted to Install the right cover yet, or to redo the left cover.

I have been working with the Contact cement in a can, Weld-wood Original, on the other parts I have done.

The aluminized insulation was held down with Thermo-Tec Heavy Duty adhesive. This is what Summit Racing sells with the insulation.

The spray stuff I used on the vinyl has not been holding. That was NAPA Heavy Duty Headliner and Carpet Adhesive.

I have removed that with Lacquer Thinner and a lot of elbow grease. I found that if you do not remove the spray stuff the can stuff does not hold.

I brushed on two coats of the contact-cement-in-a-can, allowing 15 minute drying time between coats and 45 minute drying time on the second coat. That seems to be holding.

The spray stuff never seemed to set. After a month or more it was still wet-ish.

I really do not like the fit of the Moss cover on the wheel well. It has built in wrinkles.
My wife took some tailoring courses a long time ago, and she says the vertical panel should have been cut on the bias. Also the way Moss sowed the seam is not correct since it needed skits to allow the material to compress as it curved.

I am tempted to go down to the local furniture upholsterer and heave him make some up.

More to come as I proceed.

JA Benjamin

The 2 images show an original TD Rexine cover and the black felt that's underneath.

the only gluing was to fix the felt that is about 1/4" to 3/8" thick. This felt must be flat and carefully fixed at the join under the Rexine seam.

The Rexine was never glued to the felt. It was glued at the inner top edge around the captive nuts (no felt there) behind where the trim panel sits and stretched over and down to the ply base where some glue was used before the black banding is tacked on. The forward stretch is attached with some glue to the ply tacking strip before the tacks are put in.

Those who are trying to glue to the felt or padding will never be able to get it wrinkle free as it's almost impossible to achieve. This is why it is not glued in that area and is stretched over the padding.

You will see from the images that there is only traces of glue on one side of the felt and no glue traces on the body of the Rexine.

The TF is done the same but the felt is 1/2" thick and stops at the side screen box frame. Once again no glue between the felt and the Rexine.

This trimming is like painting, the foundation must be spot on and free of faults. The felt must be in one piece on the side and one piece on the top.

I do not know what the silver product is but I doubt if it will give a good foundation, likewise the patch work padding, all the joins will show through.

Rod Brayshaw

Thank you Rod.

I was beginning to think along that line myself.

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

I tried to load this outer image but it failed so try again today. Note no trace of glue on the top side of the felt

Rod Brayshaw

Thanks for the info on the felt thickness. Mine was so flattened and deteriorated I had no way of knowing how thick it was supposed to be.

Question: Do you have any idea why a thicker felt for the TF and less for the TD?

Frank Cronin

Frank, no it could be the density of the felts now supplied. was your TF felt black?

two images of a TF

Rod Brayshaw

trimmed

Note the wrinkles at the front edge are removed when the black banding is tacked on, also the cover is glued onto the inner area under the side screen box frame third image

Rod Brayshaw

showing side screen box

Rod Brayshaw

Great pics Rod. Do you happen to have similar shots for a TD? Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Rod, From what I'm seeing, the side screen box frame work is all fabric covered, is that correct? PJ

Paul S Jennings

Yes, mine were black. The original were matted pretty good and didn't have the density compared to the white felt in the tool box. If I were to estimate judging the compression I saw of the old original felt due to wear, I would say it was originally at least 1/4" thick.

Looking at the pictures of your installation, I think going with 1/2 is the way to go to.

Excellent pictures. I notice you installed and finished the interior to the rear of the tub before bolting it to the chassis just like they did at the Factory.

Frank Cronin

This is correct PJ. Glued and wrapped.

Frank Cronin

Frank, yes it is a frame that we paint the tub on after we remove the tub from our tub assembly jig.

I trim the entire tub on this frame as it allows me to get inside it to work comfortably rather than sitting on the chassis rails if the tub was mounted on the chassis first.

I will have a look in my image archives for some TD images, we have only completed one TD in about 20 years, most have been TF's through this period.

Rod Brayshaw

TD image, not a good one for the rear panel, but you can see enough to see there is no gluing and only stretching on these inner panels.

Rod Brayshaw

This image shows a bit more

Rod Brayshaw

and again form 2010.

I may have some from 20 years ago but they will be prints that need finding and scanning.

Rod Brayshaw

Thanks Rod. I also would love to find some detailed pics of the original TD trim installation method, not just of the rear wheel arches & rear corner but particularly above the dash, the top corner of the doors, the rear floor & the side curtain box, S/C door stops & door & the hidem binding corners. In fact just about everywhere. Because the Moss kits almost always need to be reshaped to fit individual cars & their hidem binding (banding in England) is 5/8", not the original 1/2", I decided to make my own trim & had the 1/2" hidem binding made up in England from my vinyl. (It was impossible to find a manufacturer in Oz with a machine with the essential 1/2" double foot). The pics & information Rod Brayshaw posted above were very helpful but if anyone else has more closeups detailing the correct TD installation method I would appreciate your posting them.
Cheers
Peter TD 5801

P Hehir

Peter I have lots of this detail from TD 11272.

I have added some more images to the file that Chris has from me for his TD web site.

Chris, down load these and sort them for
your site from the usual place I sent you.

Rod Brayshaw

Thanks Rod

P Hehir

Well Thanks to Rod I think I have it.

I pealed off the cover. The top layer of Aluminum separated from the fiberglass mat and came with it.
I spent 2 days picking aluminum foil off the cover and removing the contact cement.
It turns out the spray adhesive from Summit works well. The spray adhesive from NAPA is very unsatisfactory. Fortunately it removes OK with Lacquer Thinner. I cut away the remaining padding for about 1-1/4" all around the edges. (See Second frame in the montage. The arrows show where I cut.
I then applied Weldwood contact cement out of the can with a brush for 2" around the edges of the cover. I did not use any contact cement in the middle.
I brushed two coats in the fender well where I had removed the padding. Again no adhesive on the padding.

I used 2 coats of contact cement, allowing 1/2 Hour between coats.
I waited 40 minutes for the second coat to dry.
I started by fitting the seam to the edge of the fender well without adhering any thing. I kept the cover to the rear of the car.
I first adhered the rearmost horizontal part and then the rearmost vertical part.
I stretched the top of the cover to the front and adhered it. I then stuck the top outer edge to the well. Lastly I stretched and stuck the bottom working out any wrinkles.

I think that when I do the right side, tomorrow, I will narrow the adhesive strip on the bottom by the door just a bit. Perhaps 1/4" less. The carped does not quite mate up with the bump where the padding has been removed.

On the bottom frame of the montage you can see the improvement over the initial try on the top.

(The other upholstery piece is held wit a spring clamp.
Thanks to all

Jim B.

JA Benjamin

As Henry said, "By Jove I think (s)he's got it". Well done, Jim. Bud

Bud Krueger

This thread was discussed between 15/09/2014 and 27/09/2014

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