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MG TD TF 1500 - Help On Rear End Problem Diagnosis

Hello -- I am new to this site, and very much appreciate any advice. I recently "inherited" -- Dad is still with us but now in an apartment -- a 1954 mgtf. It's been in the family since 54. About 47k miles, good shape, engine runs fine. While driving in second gear up a slight incline, a heard a crack or pop from under the car, and lost power to the wheels. The engine kept running, gears would shift, but no power to wheels. With the car on the ground and in neutral, I am able to turn the drive shaft. With car on jacks, and spinning one or both wheels, the drive shaft doesn't turn, but if I turn the drive shaft by hand the wheels turn ever so slightly. When I put the car in gear, I can't turn the drive shaft. What I've been able to figure so far is that it is not the clutch/linkage, but something in the rear end (I am new to this!). Any suggestions for further diagnosis? Some friends have told half shafts are a common problem, someone else suggested it could be a pinion gear problem. U joints appear fine, nothing obvious on visual inspection.
Thanks very much.
K Fontenot

You can count on a rear axle broken at the splines. It would pay you to replace both rear axles with an up graded pair. I had one break at a red light in Athens Georgia just as the light turned green. Friday afternoon at approx-4:15,Towed it to the motel called Moss and had new axle Sat morning,Installed it in parking lot and was back on the road by 11 AM.This was at a GOF and was back in the show before noon.
I envy you with such a low mileage car . It is my favorite model.
Sandy Sanders
Hudson Florida
Sandy Sanders

Odds are pretty good its one of the axles...although you mention the wheels turn slightly when the drive shaft is turned...With both wheels off the ground and in gear, can you turn one or both wheels?
More mechanically inclined are sure to answer soon!
gblawson - TD#27667

99% chance broken axle. Check the archives for all of the volumes written about this. This will give you a chance to check the rear brakes also. Just about may as well rebuild or change the rear wheel cylinders and/or change the rubber flex line since you are into the brakes anyway. George
George Butz

K,
98% chance you have broken half-shaft. Not too bad a job to repair ...and you will end up like many of us with a little "twisted broken spline" for a paper weight in your office! (I am looking at mine right now).
Very cool that you have a "T" that has been in the family since new. Send in your pic to Gordon.
Cheers & Best Regards,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

Dear Footnote,

Yup. A half-shaft for sure.

If you're not in a crisis, newer and significantly better ones made independently of Abingdon / B&G / Moss etc., are available and made of 1541 (better) steel and with a new and stronger design. They are hardened to #62 which is a cut above the original #50 to #55 Brinell.

They sell for about $90 apiece and you buy them directly from the guy that manufactures them. I've misplaced his coordinates, so hopefully someone else on this BB will fill in this info for you.

Congratulations on your new ownership. Lottsa help available on this BB.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.





Gordon A. Clark

The fellow with the improved half shafts is Jerry Austin. Email me off-line for his mailing address. I'm at dbraun99 at comcast dot net. I have installed a pair of his axle shafts, he is very fair and quick, if he has some made up.

It is imperative that you achieve 150 ft-lbs of torque on the nuts holding the drums on the axle shafts. You may have to take some material off one of the shims if you are unable to get to 150 ft-lbs and still have the cotters holes line up.

Some pics:

http://travelaire.photosite.com/MGTDRebuild/suspension/wheels_and_tires_mounted_on_rear.html

warmly,
dave
Dave Braun

K. Fontenot,

My apologies for the mis-spelling of your name. In my haste to get my comments to you, I was obviously careless, and this error was brought to my attention by a regular - off line.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.

Gordon A. Clark

I want to thank everyone for their helpful advice. (Mr. Clark, don't worry at all about the misspelling--I got a good chuckle out of it!)

I will definitely have both axles done and look for the higher quality axles. I'm not sure I'm ready to tackle this myself -- and time is a precious commodity -- but this is all great advice that I will use one way or the other.

I don't guess there is anyway to tell if it is the shaft other than taking the thing apart?

Thanks again all.
K Fontenot

K Fontenot,

From what you describe, it has to be the differential or a half shaft. Given the weakness of the original shafts, they are the likely culprit. If it was the diff, you would probably hear horrible noises when you do the tests you did above.

Good Luck!
Evan

Evan Ford - TD 27621

Pulling the rear axles is a fairly quick job, about half an hour. Remove drums, remove 4 bolts holding the brake backing plates, hang backing plates by wire from one of the inner fender bolts, pry axle flange (was also held on by the 4 bolts) off and pull out axles. You will lose the oil seals, replace. Assembly is opposite of above.
gblawson - TD#27667

Not quite that simple, Gordon. That's fine for simply removing whole axles. It's also necessary to pull the other axle to drive out the broken stub of the broken axle. Check the archives for descriptions of how to do this.
Bud Krueger

My personal opinion is that there will be ground up metal in the bottom of the diff, so you should pull it, split the cases, and clean that out as well. Especially since the rear spyder gears are made of unobtainium, etc. George
George Butz

I saw an interesting tech suggestion by a member of the NEMGT register that showed a tool for removing the broken off shaft end. It is basically a piece of tubing - like you would purchase at Home Depot - they have many sizes. This tubing is nailed to the end of a wooden broom or paint extension handle. The tube is pushed onto the end of the shaft and used to pull it out of the diff gear. Just a thought...
J Delk

SANDY.
Hi let me pick your brain . How did you get the broken stub out of the sipider gear . Did you split the case and drop it and any chunks that were in there ?
Thanks
Alan.
Alan

Alan'
I had to split the housing in the parking lot and knock the short stub out. I was able to wipe out any sludge that was in the bottom. Replaced the axle ,topped it off with oil and came 500 miles home where I reflushed the whole thing. I found the the flushing in my case was not needed as fluid came out perfectly clean. The break occured 3 miles from the hotel and site of the GOF. The axle apparently had been cracked a long time and was showing twists in both directions. The big problem I had was finding a nut for the new axle. Moss California had the axle but not the nut. New Jersey had both but seeing it was late afternoon on Friday I missed the Jersey next day air shipment. A Farm supply store had the nut but it was not notched for a cotter pin. He cut the slots with a large cut off saw. Took all of a minute extra.Then I had to find a place to press out the broken axle from the WW hub and press in the new. received the axle at 9 AM Sat and was running at 11 AM. The GOF weekend was fantastic and all was well.
Sandy
Sandy Sanders

This thread was discussed between 18/10/2006 and 22/10/2006

MG TD TF 1500 index

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