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MG TD TF 1500 - Generator pully color?

Checked the archives with no success. What is the original color of the generator pulley on a 55 TF 1500? Different owners have them in black or red on their cars. Which is correct? PJ

Sorry for the miss spell in the heading!
Paul sr

It is my understanding that the pully was painted the same color as the engine. The generator arrived sans the pully, which was added at the works at the time of assembly.
-David
D. Sander

Agree - Engine red. See http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgtf/
Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Here is a pic kindly sent to me by Colin Stafford of his very original car. I have a theory that the pulley was painted with the engine after assembly of the generator, with some sort of cover over the black body of the generator to keep it black. This accounts for all the linkages and front plate being red.

Matthew.


M Magilton

Another pic kindly sent to be by Ove Wuiff from Denmark who owns the very original red TF from the late Jerry Gougen collection. This shows the front plate off his genny, most of it would have been covered by the fan when painted. I think we would see the same pattern on Colin's genny if he were to remove the fan.

Matthew.


M Magilton

Hummmm. I'll take note when I see the TD and TF survivors at our GOF's this year. I'm intrigued. To think that they painted the pulley on the generator, on the car... Why not paint the whole thing red? As they did on the MGA (I think...)
-David
D. Sander

Keep in mind that when the generators, they came with the colors that Lucas used on all of their generators, which would be black body and unpainted alloy end plates. Any other colors would have been added by the MG factory and/or the various owners. The pulley would have been supplied by the MG factory, so its color would be what the factory wanted it to be.

It is also interesting to note that one of the very few actual Whitworth bolts on the T series cars is the one that attaches the adjusting link to the generator (with 99.9% of them having been replaced with UNC bolt).
Cheers,
David DuBois

Bruce Cunha doug up this thread again to me. I had forgotten about it but remembered instantly when he brought up the topic of the generator front plate cover.

First off most of my TD pictures are of cars that are pretty beat up. And grease and grime love to cover the generators. For the two pictures I do have of clean cars (both 51's IIRC) they actually have all black generators, fans and pulleys. One I can see the date of the body and its from 1960 so...

But usually when you got a new generator you had to transfer the pulley and fans from your old one so...

Also TF's (which we have much better pictures) all seem to have red fans, pulleys and front plates.

The attached pictures seems to show a red front plate on an early TD.

I am not buying the sleeve or mask idea that would allow for the fan, pulley and front plate to be red. Too much work for the factory to do and we would also see some pretty crumby overspray IMHO.

What I would buy is that the generators came without the fan, pulley and front plate from Lucas and the factory added them before assembly to the car. The front plate had to be specific to each car type because of the attachment points.

So I am of the opinion now that if you go with a red fan and pulley you should also consider a front red plate.

You can also choose to have a black fan and pulley too and then a black front plate.

Let the debate begin again. :-)



Bruce Cunha

Chris. I am assuming the above post is you. For some reason, it is posting under my name.
Bruce Cunha

When I examine the above picture under enhancement, it does look like there is other paint on the generator.

While black and white, it looks like a similar shade to the engine and the fan.

Could be they sprayed it red and then our old friend the touchup painter went back over the generator.



Take a look at this factory photo of a later TD with steel fan. The generator end appears black, but there are what looks like wear-off marks on the end plate. The kind of paint scuffing you might see from handling and installing the generator.



Bruce Cunha

"Chris. I am assuming the above post is you. For some reason, it is posting under my name."

Yeah it was me following the link you gave me that had your ID embedded in it. :-(

I updated the TD Finish pages to at least acknowledge that both red and black are acceptable, at least for middle year cars (51-52). I do think that if you choose a red fan/pulley you should probably also choose the front plate as red too.

I am not sure what to make of the ghosting finish on the front of the Pathe video. To me it just looks like a bad paint job by Lucas. There is a very clean and distinct difference between the front plate and the generator body.
Christopher Couper

Ok. Here is what I did.

If you look at 1:26 on the Safety Fast Video, it is clear the pully and fan were red.

https://youtu.be/2KBKgw5Cvz8

The other interesting thing about the video is the parts rack. Must have had one person filling the rack with the correct painted parts for each car coming up the assembly line.


Bruce Cunha

Bruce,

I enjoyed watching the Pathe film clip.

I noted the correct single Lucas SFT 462. Early TDs had the single lamp.

Also noticed the correct solid aluminium rivets with aluminium washer
affixing the rear sidescreen cloth to the lower part of the frame.

Great confirmation.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

At 1:39 on the Pathe film you can see the MG emblem on the block, a jubilee clip on the top hose (which is a surprise), the dizzy orientation with the clip at the bottom and as Bruce said the red fan and pulley. It does seem that the red has been sprayed on as the front of the genny does appear to be also over-painted in red? Perhaps it was touched up further along the line?

At 1:48 the scuttle trim has been tacked to the sub dash before the dash is fitted. Great clip. Just left mouse to pause the video at whatever frame you want. Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,

The Jubilee Clip on a TD water hose is not really a surprise to me.

Whilst Judging at an MG Concours event a few weeks ago, it was confirmed by one of the world's most knowledgeable TC persons, that TCs also had the Jubilee hose clip.

TFs on the other hand, originally had the double wired type clips on a 'sock' covered top hose.

Perhaps the TD Jubilees were carried on from the TC.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

Thanks Rob. It seems I might have to revise my position on Jubilee clips! I'd always thought the wire version predated the Jubilee clip as it seemed to me at any rate to be a more functional approach, and hence a later improvement. Was it Mike that you were talking to? Cheers
Peter TD 5801
P Hehir

Peter,
Yes! We together Judged the Originality/Authenticity sections of the T types.

Cheers
Rob Grantham
Rob Grantham

I HAVE GENERATOR OUT OF THE CAR IN SAME CONDITION AS WHEN IT WAS BUILT.
DO YOU WANT ANYMORE PICTURES?

THE ONE I SENT TO MATHEW IS CORRECT.
colin stafford

More pictures please- I love pictures
W_Mueller

I like that the headlamp bolt (the large one) is unpainted during assembly but later you can see it's the body color. So it got hand painted after everything was assembled.
Christopher Couper

Another thing to note on the very early car is that the front splash used bolts that were body color and not the chrome round headed bolts and washers.

Also looking more carefully at the headlamp brackets that protrude from the radiator shell. These were unpainted too and looked like CAD plated prior to assembly. Then after everything was bolted in place someone had to hand paint the bracket, bolt and nut body color.

Makes sense. The end of the headlamp bracket where the bolt sticks through is always a PITA not to chip as you tighten everything up. I bet the put almost no paint on the end so it would slip over the bracket easier and since it was all going to get hand painted anyway. Must have been some paint slopped onto the rubber grommet but they either could have tapped that or treated it with some petroleum jelly prior to painting that could have been wiped off after the paint was dry. And of course it was an MG so a little slop over is to be expected. :-)
Christopher Couper

After looking at the early generator and the issue with the bolts (in all the assembly pictures, the bolts are shiny. But when the car is loaded onto the transport, you can see the bolts of the A pan are dark). The thought that they had people that went back and painted bolts, touched up overspray, etc., makes perfect sense.

I know it is very very difficult to tighten painted bolts without chipping them.

We know the plan was to turn these cars out as fast as they could. But, they also had to look correct.

My plan for this car is to make it as close as I can to what it would have been when it left the dealer. I say dealer because I have things like the add on temperature gauge.

This will not be a "concourse car" as the motor is not original. I had a catastrophic motor failure and cracked the block on the original. Motor in the car is only 3000 newer, and I do have the original engine tag.

What I am planning to do is document everything I have done and show a factory picture that I used to make that decision.

The early cars in the video may have things that were changed by Nov 1950 when mine was built, but this is the information we have to determine how things are.

I have been in contact with the British Heratage Museum and they told me they have very little information on these details.
Bruce Cunha

"I have been in contact with the British Heritage Museum and they told me they have very little information on these details."

This page has every image they stated was in support of the MGTD way back in 1990.

They gave me a lot of small versions to post and share but not all. Brave soles might want to order up some of the missing ones or get the larger image of pictures I do have listed.

https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_heritage_pics.htm

I would love to get all the images, even if small, but don't want to ask and loose what we do have now.
Christopher Couper

This thread was discussed between 26/05/2013 and 21/03/2019

MG TD TF 1500 index

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