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MG TD TF 1500 - Fuel out of tickler holes.

I'm about two months behind on entries, but this shouldn't wait.
Yesterday I went to start Lazarus after the previous day's run with Prestone System Cleaner (much story about that to come). Pulled out the choke and turned on the key. Sounded like an AR-15 fuel pump. Key off immediately and opened the bonnet. Standing next to the fuel pump I reached around and turned on the key. Gasoline was spurting out from around the rear carburetor tickler pin. Pushed the pin down and it stopped. And I stopped. I looked down and saw the wet area by the starter and the exhaust pipe.
I can think of a number of component malfunctions that could cause this and I sent an order off for some new parts.
Today I'm joining the 'close it off' group with some J-B Weld (both carbs). I'm grateful for the opportunity to be able to do it without Lazarus having experienced a fire in our garage.
More following on cooling system experiences. Bud
BTW, Merry Christmas.
Bud Krueger

It seems to me that if fuel was coming out of the tickler pin hole, the fuel bowl must have been full and the pump was still pumping fuel in. Wouldn't that mean that the float valve was stuck open preventing back pressure to shup off the pump? Perhaps the float sank or the valve got some dirt and stuck open. Then again I may be totally off base. Let us know what you find.

We had a nice drive up to Brevard, NC, Thursday and we're going up to some NC vineyard next Thursday.

Merry Safety Fast Christmas!!

Jud
J K Chapin

Install the o-rings that are supposed to be there and this won't happen again!
Steve Simmons

Steve:

I think this topic came up recently when the group was discussing the overflow/breather tubes. Any idea where we can get o-rings that will fit the tickler properly? None of the usual parts suppliers list an o-ring for that application.
Jim Rice

Found the cause. A cause treated by the late David DuBois. The end of the needle was jammed against the float lever. David had a technique for limiting float lever motion.

A couple of months ago when I rebuilt the carburetors I replaced my Grose-Jets with needles. The Grose-Jets are going back in. The J-B stays on the shelf. Bud
Bud Krueger

I can't remember the size offhand but any o-ring that fits the pin should do the trick. Bentley and the likes came with them as standard so a supplier of those parts should have them on the shelf.
Steve Simmons

Bud, Moss sells the tickle pin set which contains the pin with a rubber washer, a steel backing washer, a spring and circlip.

John
J Scragg

some levers have a stop to prevent them from dropping too low, They need to be adjusted.
If the lever drops too low (fuel evaporates from the bowls) the steep angle of the lever pushes the needle sideways and jams (jambs ?) it.
Ray TF2884
Ray Lee

Ray 's onto it,-- also check the surface of the float lever where the needle/pin rubs, they can get a wear groove that jams the needle, just file/sand it off flat
By rights, if the needle valve is working properly there should never be fuel up high enough to spit out the tickler or overflow pipe.
There was possibly some junk in the valve and when you tickled it it went through
The o ring for the ticklers aren't original fittings they were just ticklers in a hole----people fitted them aftermarket to prevent fuel spewing out there instead of going through the overflow pipe--if all is good with the lever/needle you shouldn't really need o rings
willy
William Revit

Not listed as such in their catalog (375-045). Just pin, spring and circlip. Should be easy enough to make. An earlier thread gives DIY directions. Bud
Bud Krueger

The o-rings were original on some cars, but not on any M.G.s that I'm aware of. They should have been though.
Steve Simmons

I posted these photos about ten years ago of gaskets that I made for the ticklers on TF7211. A 2" rubber plumbing washer from the hardware store, a 3/8" diam. paper punch, and a leather punch made the gaskets and the hole in the center. A small washer completed the job.

Don't know if I really needed them, but I installed them soon after I bought the car because I had read posts about gas flowing out the ticklers. I did not add gaskets to ticklers on TF681 - no leaks. I agree with others that gaskets on the ticklers might be needed if the needle was not closing off fuel in the seat, or if the float lever jammed. Or maybe if the tickler was depressed, although fuel has never escaped from the ticklers when I depressed them.

See this tickler and gasket "Lift pin Kit" on the Burlen site:
https://sucarb.co.uk/lift-pin-kit-1.html

Lonnie
TF681
TF7211






LM Cook

Lonnie:

Looks like a pretty nifty "fix". Do you have/know the approximate thickness of the rubber washer you used? Available real estate seems pretty limited to install all the various bits on the shaft.

Agree that if the needle got jammed open, or the float sank, excess fuel is going to go somewhere. most obvious would be out the overflow tubes. However, those sit at a higher elevation than the ticklers, so an earlier path for fuel to escape right over a hot engine/exhaust pipe.

I'm somewhat surprised the current offerings for replacement tickler parts, other than from Burlen, don't include a rubber seal. A $.10 part to prevent a potentially catastrophic fire.

Thanks, Jim







Jim Rice

I believe that the washer I used was a 1/4" I.D. by 2" O.D. neoprene washer that was about 0.063" thick. I have some rubber washers that are about 0.037" thick. Both came from my local Ace Hardware.

I used a Pop-Rivet washer. Thinner washer would give a little more space to maneuver.

Some replacement ticklers have two detents for the "e" clip. The lower detent gives more space to add a rubber washer and retainer, plus clip. You can see the two detents in my photo. The tickler from Burlens appears to have only one detent. Some ticklers have a hole for a split pin, so they are really difficult.

And yes, it takes a while to get the washer attached to the tickler.

The washer and retainer lower the bottom tip of the tickler below the edge of the float bowl lid, so you won't be able to use a 3/8" (7/16") rod to set the float lever. I set fuel level by measuring at the bridge, so doesn't affect me.

Lonnie
TF7211
LM Cook

I know they are not original but my lids are not drilled for a tickler.
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

Reinstalled the ancient GroseJets and went for a spin around Marietta yesterday in a Santa stocking cap. Nary a bit of problem. That was the final run with the Prestone cleaner in the system. Should get it drained and re-antifreezed in the next few days. Then I'll get Lazarus' jet numbers to be where Len Fanelli says they should be.
Merry Christmas. Bud
P.S. One of my daughters had Santa bring me a 6-pack case of Valvoline 20W-50 VR-1 via Amazon.
Bud Krueger

"I know they are not original but my lids are not drilled for a tickler.
Ray TF 2884"

My carbs on the TF1500 are 1160 and 1161 and have no drilling for ticklers. Not needed in my case.
M Hyde

I have never seen the need for ticklers on carbs fitted with a choke/jet depressor.
The only time I use a tickler is on my BSA A7SS motorcycle as it will not start without it ????
Ray TF 2884
Ray Lee

I must say I agree with Ray, I too have never seen the need for a tickler on a MG TD. Even if the washer below does its job well, and in that environment does not degrade with time. If the input valve fails and pressure fuel fills the float chamber. The chances of it making it out through the tickler hole as well as the relief tube are high. So, to ensure that any unwanted fuel does not make it to the manifold. I filled the tickler holes to prevent that from happening. The only path for excess fuel is out he relief tube to the underside of the engine. I also am using a set of Gross Jets (since 1970) that have never failed.
Rod Jones

Hey Guys:

I'm looking at making the "seal" as described by Lonnie. Instead of using the hardware store rubber material, keeping in mind the comment Rod made about possible material degrading over time, I'm looking at using Viton rubber strips to make the sealing washers. It's available in multiple thicknesses, including 1/16th & 1/32nd thicknesses, and the material has a durometer rating of 75A. The Viton rubber should stand up to any degradation concerns, but my question is with a durometer rating of 75A. Will material that thin be rigid enough to actually act as a seal, or be too floppy to be of much use? Conversely, would it be too stiff to actually compress and seal against the tickler opening? Yeah...I know, I'm probably going down an expensive rabbit hole, but it's winter and I need a project or two to keep me busy.

Any thoughts or comments?

Thanks,

Jim

Jim Rice

Update:

The Viton material I want to use for the seal has a new delivery date in April. Was January. So....was wondering if cork might be a good alternative? I have a sheet of thin cork, and cork is used in other parts of the engine where fuel is present. It would seem to be a reasonable alternative, but not sure if it's durable enough for that application, of if it might degrade and fall apart. It's not a high density cork....so that's my initial concern.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Jim
Jim Rice

Yet another update:

Tested the composite sheet cork in a gas bath...that was a fail. Fell apart once the adhesive backing dissolved in the gas. So...over dinner the other night, we opened a bottle of white wine...with a cork stopper. Looking and picking at it, the density was pretty high. I sliced a thin piece and submerged it in gas for a couple days. The gas had no effect on it. I then cut a fresh cork "seal" (3/8 punch and leather punch set at 1/8) along with a very thin metal washer, and installed on the tickler pin. The combined thickness was approximately 3/32. To test, I reinstalled the cap on the float bowl, and turned on the fuel pump. It ticked to fill as expected but stopped when the needle seated. So, with the new seal/washer installed it did not interfere with the float level setting. I still need to do the other tickler and then test/drive to see how it holds up under use.



Jim Rice

This thread was discussed between 23/12/2023 and 28/01/2024

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