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MG TD TF 1500 - Factory Questions

If i could talk to someone who worked on the Abingdon lines in 1953, I would ask them:

1) How many cars were on the line at one time?
I count about 10 - 12 in old photos.
2) How many tubs were kept on hand at any one time?
3) How many engines were kept on hand at any one time?
4) How many lines were there?
From old photos, must have been more then 3 (maybe about 8)? There must have been two lines of TD's to produce the number they did in '53?)

Am sure there are more?
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Gordon,
Pretty sure old photos I have seen of Abingdon Factory do indeed show "2" rows of cars being built side by side. I would have guessed the line at closer to 15/17 cars long. But don't know for sure. I had talked with a gent in the UK a few years ago that worked there in the 50's ...but have lost contact with him. I will watch the "post" and see what you get for answers and try to find his phone # (email bounced back so he must have changed it)
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

David
The gentleman in question may well have departed to the great MG factory in the sky. Have you got your car back on the road yet? Still waiting for summer to arrive here.
John
John James

What wouldnt you give to walk around the factory in 1950-55 with a video camera?

Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

Mathew
I think we would all be shocked by the untidy mess and the haze of tobacco smoke! I had a tour of the Rolls Royce factory at Goodwood last March. It looked cleaner than Chichester Hospital!
John James

Matthew,
I also share this curiosity to have a look into the old days factory. Finally I found such a videorecording and it is really facinating. It is a kind of PR from those days where the camera followed a young couple on a factory tour after the bought there own new MG back in the fithties.
Best regards, Huib Bruijstens
Huib Bruijstens

Huib,

where do you live in Holland ? Can you copy this tape ?

Cheers,

Bas TD 23222
VA 0251
Bas

HUIB;;
COULD YOU POSSIBLY PUT THAT TAPE ON A cd? I WOULD BE WILLING TO PAY FOR ONE AS I'M SURE MANY OTHERS WOULD
Sandy Sanders
Hudson Florida
conrad sanders

I had seen a film on the "Legends of Motorsport" here in States on SpeedChannel a few years ago that was put out by MG. The film was from the early 50's and showed a British ski champion touring the MG factory watching "his" TD being built. It then showed him picking the completed car up, driving to the Channel and putting the car on a boat (loaded, not driven on as you would a ferry, as I recall) to be taken to the Continent. He then drove the car to the Alps, in the snow, with the hood down and windscreen folded.

Quite a neat little advert film. I can't recall the name, or whether I was speedy enough to get it taped (I taped several of the Legends of Motorsports that seemed interesting). I'll have to dig through my tapes to see if I can find it.

Larry
Larry Thompson

These films are available on video from the Heritage Motor Centre in Britain.

http://www.heritage-motor-centre.co.uk/giftshop/videos/mg/default.htm
Steve Swann

The website Steve mentions is the right one: that is where I bought the video and i really recommend you to get it too. It is fantastic, especially the "silent movie" part that makes you almost smell the factory !!! People behind the side at the Heritage Centre are very helpful. It is the movie: MG Film Library (1) Ref: 1009 Price: £14.99
regards and enjoy, Huib Bruijstens
Huib Bruijstens

Did i miss the place to order online? Or do you just send an old fashioned money order and letter?
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Don't forget the differing video/tv formats.

NTSC for the USA and PAL for just about everywhere else.

The Poms may not have this one available in Septic format.
Steve Swann

Gordon,
I used the "contact us" and sent my request by such e-mail. They responded and asked for creditcard numbers. Finally we had phone contact. And yes, this gave a fine personal touch that relates well to the subject. Enjoy it and regards, Huib Bruijstens
Huib Bruijstens

Thanks... just did the email purchase....
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Thnx Huib, will order one too !
Bas

Is this VHS or DVD?
Steve Simmons

Sounds like VHS.....
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Bummer.
Steve Simmons

We have many companies here that will transfer VHS ( or even Beta) tape to DVD. I am sure that there would be many in the US.
The NTSC and PAL tape type is important, as mentioned above, but again either type is able to be transfered to DVD.
Some European countries use the French Secam TV system.

Mick
Mick Anderson

I can transfer it myself, and have done so in the past as I have access to professional equipment. However the quality of commercial VHS is typically not very good, and the difference between a video transferred to DVD and the same video originating on DVD is huge. I haven't used my VCR in four years and have no plans to connect it to my system again.
Steve Simmons

These videos sound interesting enough that I would drag out my old "Super 8" projector to see them!!! Can't wait to get it!
gordon lawson - TD 27667

There is some interesting old archive film on the Associated British News site.

http://www.britishpathe.com/index.php
John James

Just a few pieces of information which perhaps are of interest...
The video is indeed very informative: I bought mine approx. twelve years ago and still enjoy watching it. It is number HMF1009. The 56 minutes of tape, include four films:
1) Safety Fast, a silent movie from 1932. As Huib says it's fascinating to see the factory "in operation". However these are all pre-war models of course and therefore not representing the TD/TF production line (though this didn't differ very much from the 1930's).
2) Safety Fast-1950: the second film on the tape is the one you remember Larry. The skiing champion is Ian Appleyard (more famous for his Jaguar SS-100/XK-120 rally victories) and he's accompanied by famous motor-sports photographer Louis Klementaski. The film and the cars were described by "the Autocar" of January 27th 1950 (Reprinted in one of the "Brooklands" books ISBN 0-946-489-017). In April 1994 one of these TD's still existed (registration number FMO 265) as it appeared in the now long gone British "Popular Classics" magazine under the heading "midget Marvel" an article by Mark Dixon. It's in this film that you can see the actual TD production line at work.
3) Thoroughbreds All-1950, third film on the tape, shows the Nuffield development dept. and parts of the 1950 Alpine Rally were a Swiss privately entered TD wins the 1,5 litre class. To see a TD undergo the "vibrator test" in the Nuffield development dept. is... well, interesting...8^)
4)Exhibit B-801 is a 1951 film (last on the tape) were you can see EX-135 and Goldie Gardener in action on the Utah Salt Flats. It also brings the TD production car record run by the staff of Motor Trend Magazine: a feat frequently used by MG 's publicity dept.
All very interesting to see and definately worth buying.
To come to Gordons original question: this is also exactly what I would like to know. I bought the book "Making MG's" hoping to find an answer there, but it started with MGA production so no luck there. I suspect however that in the early fifties production capacity at Abingdon was not that large; remember that they were also building the Riley RM's there...Maybe two or three TD assembly lines therefore ??!!
Also it seems that they were producing TD's in batches of the same colour (as in early MGA production) with three or four cars being completed at the same time (the body batch number???)
It would indeed be very interesting to interview someone who assembled the TD.....
Cheers, Nick, 52TD/63Midget.
D.G.J. Herwegh

As i add more and more TD's, i still think that second number is the "Carbody's" number... there are no duplicate portions of the 2nd number and it seems to go up to 99,999 and then start over again.
Judging by the interior shots i have seen, that angled glass roof is over each assembly line...and i seem to remember an aerial view of the plant with a whole row of these glass panels. Would think that counting them would give the number of lines?
Can't wait to see the films.
gordon lawson - TD 27667

I have a couple photos of TD production on this page of my site: http://www.lbcnuts.com/mg/historicaltseries/

It's hard to tell but I think I see at least four cars in one of the photos.
Steve Simmons

Steve... nice page of photos... how large is that other shot of the assembly line and where did it come from?

D.G.H. - I bought that same book, although it does cover the A, the production figures in the back are great.
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Now that i look at the assembly line photo, i notice that the sides of the bonnet are not attached (you can see the engine)... think that was the publicity dept. showing more detail, or did they slide on the louvered sides after?
gordon lawson - TD 27667

I don't remember where it came from. Someone probably sent it to me in an email. Most of the photos on my site that were sent to me in the 'early days' don't have credits because I hadn't thought that far ahead when I first started building it.

I shrink all large photos down to 500x375 for posting on my site for various reasons including faster downloads and reduced bandwidth costs, so there's a good chance that I have a larger version somewhere. Throw me an email if you want me to look for it.
Steve Simmons

The website of this Heritage Motor Center in UK also mentions their archives. I suppose that some of the answers to Gordons questions could be found there.
Anybody ever visited this museum?
regards, Huib Bruijstens
Huib Bruijstens

I emailed Heritage about getting a copy of the mg tape in NTSC format. The response:
You will be able to get this video from www.motorfilms.com We have to order 10 films of the same at on time in US format so it is not economical for us to do so, however if you have a problem do not hesitate to get in touch.

The www.motorfilms site says that it's only available in PAL format. Shucks. Are there 9 others interested?
Bud Krueger

I emailed the gift shop and they said it would be sent out (or processed)? I added "North American" format!
gordon lawson - TD 27667

Gordon,
To return to your original question once more...
I think (but that's my thought so you can all disagree wholeheartedly !!)that the number of assembly lines for the TD was never more than two.
Take for example the year 1952 in which most TD's were built.
They made 10.838 TD's that year.
The factory didn't operate between July 25th and August 11th. Add another week for Hollidays/Bank Hollidays etc. This means: annual production covered in 48 weeks.
Now: 10.838/48 = 226 TD's per week.
I think they were still working six days a week (normal in the early fifties) but suppose there were just five.
226/5 = 45 TD's per day. (In the book "Making MG's" you often find small notes next to the lines with the notification: "today 40/tomorrow 42" does this mean the number of cars to be assembled that day ??? I guess so??!!)
Suppose there were two assembly lines:
45/2 = 23 TD's per line.
Still working nine hours per day ? Suppose eight:
23/8 = 3 TD's per hour is one complete car every 20 minutes !!!
I can remember an excursion I made in 1978 to GM's Opel plant in Antwerp. They were turning out one car every TWO minutes !! And this was in the days before robots arrived !!!
What I mean to say is that even in the peak production year they could easily make the average daily production on one assembly line...???
Remember that the emphasis at Abingdon was Riley RM production with approx. 2000 RME's and RMF's built that same year (which was low compared with other years) AND of course MG YB's of which 722 were assembled (some sources give a lower figure).
I think that therefore you quite often see Riley's mixed with TD's on the assembly line, especially in the early years of TD production. These sedans were at that time more important for Abingdon then the sportscars.
So to summarize: my guess is that there were probably four lines in operation in the early fifties: Riley's (1,5 and 2,5 litres) MG-Y's (YA/YT/YB) and MG TD.
It was still a small assembly plant then. Big expansion came with the arrival of the Austin-Healey's (six cilinders and Sprites),Morris Minors (Traveller/Van)and MGB/MG Midget some ten years later...A pity that the "Making MG's" book doesn't cover these details further.
About the bonnet assembly procedure: it looks as if they indeed were sliding the side panels in later. Look at the photo on page 199 of the Horts Schach restoration manual!
Cheers, Nick 52TD/63Midget.
D.G.J. Herwegh

I can convert from PAL to NTSC if you want to send me your PAL tape.
Steve Simmons

Wow... ordered that film on the 6th from the Heritage Centre in the U.K. and it arrived today the 12th in Canada... Can't wait to get it home.
gordon lawson

Gordon, if it's NTSC will you please send me the addresses that you emailed to? Thanks. Bud
Bud Krueger

Darn... just put it in the VCR and can't see a thing... lots of lines and snow???
Sent them a note to see if they have sent the wrong format?
gordon lawson

Sounds like PAL. You could always buy a PAL VCR.
Steve Simmons

If anyone is interested in pre-war MG footage I can highly recommend the VHS tape Inside the Octagon by Roadster Productions.

It has some wonderful factory shots of the cars being hand built and interviews with John Thornley, Jean Kimber Cook, Cecil's daughter, "Wilkie" Wilkinson, and others from the Golden Age of MG.

There is also footage of racing at Brooklands, and other MG speed record attempts in England and France.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no follow up film covering 1945-1980. No TC, TD,or TF footage.

Safety Fast,
Jerry
Jerry Thorson

Bud,
I would defintely buy a VHS or DVD copy if you get others interested.
Count me in!
Lew
L. Capriccio

Okay Lew. So far there's you, I and Dave Braun. Need seven more.
Bud Krueger

Just got an email that they don't have that video in NA format... they will return my money. I have, however, had it transferred by a local video production house (for $15.00).
What a great little set of films... the first silent one from '32 is great... shows assembly in detail. Lots of fun.
gordon lawson - TD 27667

In one scene there is a room full of engines... must be 100... no wonder eng. numbers are all over the place with chassis numbers.
I assume with producing about 40 cars a day(?)that they would have at least a week's worth of engines and frames and tubs at any one time...by the photos, there were fenders hung all along the walls as well.
Very interesting info...
gblawson

Gordon,
My favourite scene: film #3 "Thoroughbreds All" and the climbing of the Stelvio Pass.
Climbing that pass with my TD is VERY high on my list of "things to do in a lifetime"
>>>".....up the road and round the bend....."<<<<< and that more than forty times !!!!!
Cheers,
Nick 52TD/63Midget.
D.G.J. Herwegh

I would like a copy in NA format.
w.g cook

Okay, that's 4 down and 6 to go. Anybody else? I'll check back with Heritage and see how rigid the 10 number is. -- Bud
Bud Krueger

Bud, put me down for one -- that's five.

Dennis
D F Sexton

Picked up the 'Inside the Octagon' at the British Invsasion in Stowe, VT. What a great pick-up during the Looooong winter. Also picked up the MG Film Library I-Heritage Motoring Films, (HMF 1009) on ebay a while back. Has a couple picking up their car in the 30's, Appleyard's run to the Alps, more TD footage and Goldie Gardner's car. Great entertainment. Highly recommended if you do get them.

Safety Fast

Paul
Paul

I would take 1 ...we are getting there!
Cheers,
David 55 TF1500 #7427
David Sheward

OK I'll take one also.

John 52TD
John Shoemaker

Some encouragement -- here's my latest response from Kim Parsons at Heritage:
Bud
I have spoken to the gentleman at www.Motorfilms.com and he has the video that you want. If you go a head and order the video in the format on the website he will send you the correct format have given him your details he will e-mail you when he receives your order to confirm

Many Thanks
Kim

I asked Kim for an email address for the gentleman and received this reply:
Bud
This is the telephone no 01483 235600 I think this would be the best way forward for you
Many thanks
Kim

It's too late to call today. I'll try it tomorrow morning. Their website (www.Motorfilms.com) indicates a shipping/handling charge of £10 for overseas. Maybe they can reduce that for a package deal. I won't be at all upset if anyone else beats me to the call.
Bud Krueger

For an interesting read, look up A Stroll Around the M.G. Works in the 1983 Edition of the TSO found on the CD of the TSO archives. It has a nice picture of the 3 production lines.

Dave
D Runnings

Okay, I just negotiated to purchase the world's supply of their MG Library in NTSC format, 5 copies. They agreed to send them to me for £15 s/h, for a total of £89.95. I hope to see them in a week or so. The first four on my list are Lew, Dave Braun, w.g. cook and Dennis. If you folks will confirm that, I'd appreciate it. When I know what the conversion rate will be, I'll just divide up the cost plus shipping from here (Plymouth, MA) to you. Bud
Bud Krueger

Yes! Let me know where to send the money.

dave braun
D. A. Braun

Bud,
Yes, confirming a copy for me.
Thanks for doing all the "leg" work.
Also let me know the final cost.
I will send you an email off the BBS.

Lew
L. Capriccio

Bud, yes! Sent a direct email also to confirm.
Thanks!
Dennis
D F Sexton

confirming. Thanks Bud!

Bill Cook
w.g cook

The videos arrived yesterday. They've split the shipment into 3 + 2. The copies for Dave and Lew went out in today's mail. Hopefully, the other two will be shorttly for Bill and Dennis.

Had a quick look at mine last night. It answered a number of questions that folks have been asking. For instance -- Shots from the paint department (open area,no masks) showed them painting a significant number of fenders at one time. It looks as if cars were, indeed, done in batches of one color. Nothing but chrome headlamp buckets on early TDs.
Bud Krueger

Regarding the number of engines and bodies kept on hand "in the pipe line", I have written to Jim Simpson who worked at the factory for 50 years and who was chief of incoming inspections (as well as the works fire chief), We'll see what he has to say.

For any of you that were at MG2001 in Minnesota, he was our VIP guest and the fellow that spoke about his time at the factory.

Cheers,
Lew Palmer
Lew Palmer

Interesting in the 1932 silent film that the painter was spraying the side of the car with the engine open and exposed? Wonder, again, if it was for the cameraman and not regular practice.
gordon lawson - TD 27667

The other two videos arrived today. They'll be off to Bill and Dennis on Tuesday.
Bud Krueger

The film is a hoot. I visited my office today, and found it on my desk. I really enjoyed viewing it. I think I read a story about the 'London to Alps' ski trip, at least I remember a still picture of the ski jouring behind the TD. Lots of origninal TD views. Thanks Bud for handling all of this!

dave
D. A. Braun

OH Man, there goes that 'old age' thing again! Don't know how but I dun missed out on all this video stuff and it looks like I'm to late. Is it possible to get a copy of somebodies copy or what. Willing and able to pay. Greg & Grimm
G.J. Cenzer

I had the video in the vcr before the mailman got past the next house. It's great!
My wife said, "It's fun to know the history and see the TD in the time period. Makes you proud to own one."
The scenes of the TD in the mountains, fording the water, driving in the snow and the switchbacks are terrific.
Thanks again Bud.
Dennis
D F Sexton

Gordon, forgot to reply to your question on the painting in the silent film. Looks made for the movie. I noticed how other painting scenes the wings are being painted seperately -- can't think they would really be painting that car with the hood on, and all the other trim in place.
Dennis
D F Sexton

I thought it a bit suspect...but wasn't sure what happened in the early days regarding repairs to cars damaged and needing repair before being released.
gordon lawson - TD 27667

This thread was discussed between 04/06/2005 and 11/07/2005

MG TD TF 1500 index

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