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MG MGF Technical - Starting Problems...

I just got my F VVC back from its 60K service and cooling system overhaul and am hacing intermittent problems starting it. On the way back from the garage I stopped a couple of times and started the engine without any problems. Then once I had parked up outside my house (luckily enough) I could not get it started. However 20 mins later it started. It seems that if you start the engine then switch it off, it won't start, but if you leave it for a while it will start again.

When I say it won't start this is what happens:

1) unlock doors and mobilse car
2) turn ignition key and wait for fuel pump to finish (that noise as you turn the ignition key
3)wait for the SRS light to go off
4) then turn the ignition to position III

symptoms;
1) No noise at all from starter. No clicks or movement
2) It is just completely dead
3) A small light comes on after a few seconds of turning the ignition key which has a small oil can on with a temperature gauge on (not shown in the user manual) around the same place as the power steering and SRS lights.

I have had a look through the Archives and the closest I can find is a solenoid problem in the starter motor/starter motor itself.

I have forked out a third of the value of the car in the 11 months I have had it, so I don't want to spend any more! It is getting beyond a joke now. I read that the starter motor would cost around 200 to fix -where as a solenoid would cost about 30 or so (though they don't make just the solenoid I hear) I am going to cry if it is the starter.... Question...why does it suddenly work after 10 minutes or so?

thanks, Andy
A P Wrench


check the big crimp connecter on the starter motor, pull it off and close the contacts with a pair of pliers clean the contacts as well. I had a similar problem with a rover 214.

pete
pete

Andy

My VVC Owners Handbook Page 51 has 2 warning lights that may fit, both in the central strip between sppedo and tacho. The High Oil is above the SRS light and the Engine Bay above the ABS light:

Engine Bay Overheat (red) Engine bay overheat - RED
The light illuminates briefly as a
bulb check when the starter
switch is turned to position ’II’ and
extinguishes after a few seconds. If the light
illuminates while you are driving, this
indicates that the engine compartment
temperature is too high or that the engine bay
cooling system is not working; if this occurs,
reduce speed and allow the engine to cool
(but avoid very slow road speeds if possible)
- the light should then extinguish. If
illumination is frequent or persistant, ask
your dealer to check the engine bay cooling
system.

High oil temperature - RED
(1.8i VVC models only)
If the light illuminates while
driving, this indicates that the engine oil
temperature is too high; you should reduce
speed immediately and drive GENTLY until
the light has extinguished and the pointer on
the oil temperature gauge has fallen below The warning light illuminates
when the starter switch is turned on and
extinguishes after the engine starts. If the
light illuminates at any other time, there is a
fault with the ABS system; if this occurs, ABS
will not be available to prevent the wheels
the light has extinguished and the pointer on
the oil temperature gauge has fallen below 150C. If the light fails to extinguish after a
few minutes, stop the car and switch off the
engine. Seek qualified assistance before
restarting.

HTH
JohnP

Owner’s Handbook
Publication Part No. RCL 0332ENG - 3rd Edition
Published by MG Rover Group
JohnP

Starter Motor Sticking Due to Heat ???
It starts when it has Cooled Sufficiently to allow it to move freely...
Had this on a Couple of cars and if it is this, the only long-term cure is to Replace the starter.
You need to check for voltage when the problem arises, if you have sufficient voltage at the starter terminals then it's a sticky starter....
MARK PERKS

YES! When it heats up the starter won't run. I tried it last night when it was cool and it worked, then switched it off. Tried it again and it worked. Then as the engine got hotter it would take a little longer for the starter to kick in, then eventually it stops altogther. Is there any way to service the starter so that you can overcome the sticking problem? Any idea how much one would cost? Are the easy to fit?

thanks. Andy
A P Wrench

Try the MGF center for a second hand one if it requires changing, call them on the numbers displayed on the link advertised link above.
Mike
Mike (@home)

Andy
Only real cure is to replace the starter, if your going to keep it for a while then it's better to go the Guaranteed Re-con route.
If your not going to keep it much longer, then a secondhand one should suffice...
Before condeming the starter Check the Voltage as i sugested earlier.
You'll probably find that the voltage at starter is ok....
It gets quite warm in an mgf engine bay...
TVR Griffiths can suffer from this aswell....
Mark.
MARK PERKS

Don't replace the starter motor just yet.

I am inclined to agree with my trusted main dealer who tells me they very rarely replace start motors these days. Frankly, I was astonished that a garage/dealer would talk a customer out of unnecessary work (as I'd asked about a replacement starter) so I'm inclined to believe him. They remade the connections and I've had no problems since. Mine has just had it's 84K service, btw.

Trevor
Trevor Hobden

Trevor et al,

thanks again for your comments. I am thinking of taking the motor to an auto electrician as it may just need cleaning/tightening/slacking, etc. Like I said, when cold there are no problems, which suggests that the starter works to a point. If I can ensure that all the connections are in tact and secure, then start from there.

Trevor: when you said they remade the connections, do you mean to the starter unit itself, including the solenoid housing? Or was it an internal fix? I don't mind getting my hands dirty so will try anything.

thanks, Andy
Andy Wrench

I think Dieter has something about starter motor/solenoid removal on his website....
His website is a very good source of information concerning mgf electrics...
Mark.
MARK PERKS

Andy,

There is a single cable with a spade connector which pushes on to the starter motor. The connector itself is open to the elements and gets corroded. I found just by removing and pushing the connector back on a few times cleaned it up enough to allow a decent current to flow on turning the key and turn the motor properly. For a while. Then it would revert back to starting with a series of nasty clicks as the solenoid engages and disengages rapidly. Or not at all at which point I'd use a length of 2x1" kept in the boot to give the motor housing a smack and release the solenoid.

Naturally, this can take the fun out of the F experience so I let the dealer sort the connector properly during the service a couple of weeks ago. I've had no recurrences. I suspect they did very little given they only charged a few quid. Certainly not take the motor apart.

Trevor
Trevor Hobden

Does anyone have Dieter's website URL?

thanks, Andy
A P Wrench

www.mgfcar.de
Will Munns

Quick reference http://www.mgfcar.de/starter/solenoid.htm
I'm sorry, site will get better sorted 'at any time'. :)

May be it's worth having a look to Bosch Service for parts sourcing and of courdse at your friendly dealer.
However, the MGR Parts Catalogue is very confusing about compatibility of spares.
See here about the confusion http://mgfcar.de/bosch_parts/
Dieter K.

Dieter, from looking at the Bosch parts do you think that starters/solenoids are the same as the ones used on Rover 200s? IT's a great site by the way...
Andy Wrench

This thread was discussed between 04/04/2004 and 08/04/2004

MG MGF Technical index

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