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MG MGF Technical - Parcel shelf and neon

Had the parcel shelf off last night for some fiddling and I started to wonder if anyone had ever done any major modifications to this area.

What I was chiefly thinking about was replacing the engine cover, sound deadening material & parcel shelf with some perpsex allowing you to see the engine. Obviously you'd have to tidy up around the edges of the back shelf but thought it might look quite interesting esp. with a a coloured/ anodised cam cover. Of course you may have heat & sound issues to deal with but it would look impressive.


My other thoughts were concerning internal neon. Not in a boy racer Max Power style but I was considering two small strips in each footwell in red to match the car/ interior. Thought it would look pretty smart lit up at night. Saw a Elise with blue neon in the footwells and it was very nice.

Anyone experimented with either of these or what is everyones view on this. Is it too much down the Max Power route or and acceptable mod!
B Millar

Naa, ditch the neon, get a perspex distributor cap so you see the lightening, and four colour-tune kits so you can see the blue glow from the cylinders!
Will Munns

you could fir ultrabright LED's in line with the injectors, that way you would be able to see them glow brighter when you reved the engine.
Will Munns

I have considered putting small neod lights into the door handle recesses to help you find them in the dark.

My lad's Mondeo has these as standard, and it's a great idea.

Sam
Sam Murray

I do hope you mean LEDs, not neons sam!
Will Munns

Might be a bit of an issue with the stiffness of the chassis. I'm sure there is a reason why there are 10 bolts holding a profiled (strengthened) sheet of steel in place.....

Another BBS member was considering the same idea a couple of months ago.

Tim
tim woolcott

bob

I'd be a bit cautious of replacing that plate with a piece of plastic.. In the event of a rear end collision such as Mike's previous accident in Switzerland he said his bumper finished up behind his head..

That plate is obviously in the 2 crumple zone" if the plastic shattered you could end up it penetrating the headrests or you!

Stu
Stu

Perspex dizzys??? Can you really get them or am I King Gullible of Gullible land!
B Millar

Wasn't Scarlet toying with the perspex engine cover idea? And yes, you can get transparent dizzy caps (don't know about for the K-series in particular). On old cars they are useful for checking the centrifugal and vacuum advance mechanisms are working properly.

Tim.
Tim Jenner

>?Perspex dizzys??? Can you really get them or am I King Gullible of Gullible land!

Well I haven't seen them, but someone must make a clear dizzy! OK it wouldn't be perspex, coz that melts.

You can get plug caps with neon (the real stuff) lamps in line, so you can see the plugs fireing.
Will Munns

>> Wasn't Scarlet toying with the perspex engine cover idea? <<

Yep, got a design worked out, but no one to manufacture it at the moment.

Basically i was all set to get a prototype made up and then Tim Woolcott mentioned that there is probably a reason for the (excessive) 11 bolts around the inspection panel and that this reason is probably structural rigidity. I then set about designing some X-braces to fit below the panel - these are all worked out too.

However, as has been pointed out above, there is also the issue of crash worthyness...

So, i effectively canned the idea, then, at Silverstone recently i had a chat with one of the MGF/TF race drivers and he said that most of the race spec cars are lucky to have 2 bolts in the panel, so i am now in two minds about proceeding.

The original idea was to use race style bonnet quick release pins (4 no, with X bracing between them, i am completely p*ssed off with undoing all 11 bolts everytime i want to access the engine bay), a toughened glass (laminated, shatterproof) inspection panel, the same dimensions as the original metal one, using the original rubber edge seal. And (in my case) a red neon inside the engine bay (mounted directly below the T-Bar). The sound deadening material would be trimmed to suit the opening, as would the parcel shelf lining.

There is one other flaw with this plan (it'd look crap! - Who said that?) ;-) And that is heat transfer. The original panel has a heat reflective 'pad' stuck on the underside, this will not be there (obviously) on the glass panel, also there is nothing above it either, so it will get hot. Furthermore, if you fold the hood, then the rear screen (which will lay on the glass panel) will also get hot (and will probably melt!) I had thought about re-using the heat reflective pad as a loose laid item between the hood and the panel when folded, but this seems a bit rubbish and i'm sure there is a better solution, maybe a full size heat proof sheet trimmed to fit the parcel shelf (something that could be hidden behind the seat when not in use), or maybe having the panel double glazed.

Anyway, i am still interested in getting a prototype manufactured as i feel, from an access point of view at the very least, it is a sound idea.

SF
Scarlet Fever

I would not use PMMA (Perspex/Flexiglass) in this application. The melting temperature for PMMA is far too low. It would also be a fire hazard.

Ralph
Ralph

You would be better off with toughened or laminated glass. You could even double glaze for heat protection. Windscreens are now often used as structural strengthening components for cars, and it's suprisingly strong. The best material would be something like Triplex, both toughened AND laminated. The difficulty is this stuff is very tricky to cut to shape.
Grant Vowles

Although glass is very strong in laminated and toughened forms they really will only work in compression or tension. There use horizonally could easily result in twist which glass, no matter how treated, will crack.

If glass is to be used it will have to be isolated from the chassis in some form, some sort of gasket perhaps which can accommodate the anticipated torsional flex. Probably the best analogy to the glass panel is a typical sun roof, which has its own frame and is at least in part separated from the twist of the body shell. We must also remember that the F does not have a roof so WILL be bendier than tin top car.

tim woolcott

> F does not have a roof so WILL be bendier than tin top car.


Is that what Top Gear magazine means when it refers to soft tops as having "scuttle shake"?
B Millar

There is such a thing as heat reflective glass - but it is pretty expensive (as I am sure that Tim will tell us).

I'm so convinced that the cover is a vital structural component: whilst there are 11 retaining bolts, the torque settings on these are very low. Only enough to place a modest clamping load on the rubber seal. The reason for so many is to ensure a good seal between cover and body work, which probably has more to do with noise insulation and preventing the ingress of noxious fumes into the car's interior.

HOWEVER

My concern is that this modification would cost a small fortune to execute, but to what end? The view of the engine would remain incredibly restricted - difficult to see through the softtop plastic rear screen with the hood raised, and nearly completely obscured with the hood stowed.

It's an imaginative idea, but in the end, I'm not sure that the effort required would justify the result, sadly :o(
Rob Bell

Bob,

Yep, That is 'shake and scuttle'

Rob,

Yep, loads of reflective glass coatings available, However most of these must be used on the inside face of a double glazed unit, to prevent contamination from the environment, there are of course these platinum coated windscreens seen on may cars.....

All in all the logistics are a nightmare and as Rob points out expensive and to what real end!

Anything is possible, But......

Tim
tim woolcott

... and you'd have to keep your engine bay very very clean for it to look nice.

I know I wouldn't like anybody peering down into my engine bay to see how filthymucky it is!

Having looked at Andy's SOS site with Scarlet's rust problems on both the engine bay cover and the rear bulkhead/fueltank cover I took a look at my engine bay cover and there were a few spots of rust, so I cleaned it up, hammerited what I could see of the underside and respayed the top in tahiti blue to match the car. Also sprayed the small fuel cover up as well. Completely got rid of the sound deadening anc carpet back there too. That stuff weighs a ton!
A

Bob...Perspex engine cover sounds great. Forget all the paranoia about crumple zones and rigidity. Im sure if you get hit hard enough its not going to make that much of a difference whether its a metal plate or plastic.

Plus, If we all thought that anally about safery we would be scared to venture out on the roads.
D Jamieson

>> Windscreens are now often used as structural strengthening components for cars, and it's suprisingly strong. <<

It is in the F too. With the glass out the windscreen frame is surprisingly easy to deform, you can do it by bracing yourself against the seat and pushing with your feet (don't ask!) However, with it in place, the windscreen surround is incredibly strong, capable of protecting the occupants in a roll over situation. The two items (glass and surround) are designed to work in tandem.

-----

>> The view of the engine would remain incredibly restricted <<

Ah yes, but think of the red neon glow after dark... ;-)

-----

>> respayed the top in tahiti blue to match the car. Also sprayed the small fuel cover up as well <<

Looks good doesn't it? It's almost a shame to cover it up with the parcel shelf carpet! :-)

Scarlet now has a red engine bay cover, a red back panel and a cream petrol tank cover (complete with red 'SF' logo!)

-----

>> All in all the logistics are a nightmare and as Rob points out expensive <<

I'm getting a quote at the moment, more as and when...

-----

From my own point of view, whether or not i go down the clear inspection panel or not, i will be changing the fixing method at some point in the future. I am completely hacked off with undoing the 11 bolts everytime i want to get in there. It strikes me as unnecessary, even from a noise / fumes point of view. Torsion accross the parcel shelf wont be an issue unless the car is involved in an accident situation. The glass panel will be isolated from these kinds of forces through the rubber seal around the edge and the grommets on the fixing pins. There may be an issue regarding membranic forces, the panel could act (at a microscopic level) as a trampoline type membrane (it being flat and close to the horizontal), this may cause it to shatter over time, it may even make a noise. Unless it is tried however, we shall never know.

SF
Scarlet Fever

>> Looks good doesn't it? It's almost a shame to cover it up with the parcel shelf carpet! :-)

I didn't bother putting the carpet back in Andy!

Looks good IMO.
A

This thread was discussed between 10/07/2003 and 11/07/2003

MG MGF Technical index

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