MG-Cars.com
MG MGF Technical General ICE question BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net
MG-Cars.net
Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.
Recommendations
Parts
MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.
|
|
MG MGF Technical - General ICE question
| After spending two days in cutting T-bars, stripping the car and cables,.... . I am wondering. I remember someone told me one should never put the RCA cable (head unit -> AMP) next to speaker cables. Or should that be no RCA cable next to power cable to AMP? cheers, David (with a blown fuse before I even got a chance to listen to the system, *LOL*) |
| David |
| David, Keep the power cable apart from all other cables, they can cross but dont run them parallel to them as they will cause interference, best to keep all cables apart acually, hope this helps Mike |
| Michael Miller |
| ... though you'll only be able to tell if the car isn't actually moving when you're listening, or you're playing things loud enough to damage your ears... E |
| Ed Clarke |
| HiI David, on my Crutchfield installation guide, you can run RCAs and speaker wires can run together, but you want to keep the 'delayed on lead' a little further away. + Power as far as possible. And left over cables (length), especially in a small car like the F, you have to make them S loops in the middle rather than coiled loops. I will attempt to install my audio gears in 3 weeks time, I would like to ask some questions.. if you don't mind! 1) Did you remove your seats? if so, how? 2) Did you take the carpet out easily? How? 3) Did you rewire your door speaker wires? Any easy tips? 4) How did you get the power cable in from the front bonnet area..? Is this easy to do? Please let mek now! Thanks |
| Hanah Kim |
| Thanks for the info guys, Hanah, here are your answers: 1) Did you remove your seats? if so, how? No, didnt. I included rear speakers at the same time as new door speakers and amp. I have a LHD car. The only cables that run in bewteen the mid console and the seats are the power cable (on passenger side) and the rear speaker cables (on the driver side). Testing my system late last night, these seemed to be the only onces working. So the Power cable and speaker cable dont interfer. (rear speakers not amped) I would recommend you to remove the seats using a TORX screwdriver n50. The seats are held in posotion by 4 of them. Two at front (one facing the console, one facing the floor), two at the back (same posisiton). These are easy using a ratchet (right word?). dont forget to release the seatbelt spanner thing (if that is what I think it is) And maybe the seatbelt itself, though you could take the seat out without having to remove the seat belt. It runs under the seat, is a yellow wire clipped in another, just take a look. If you dont remove the seats, make sure you have a (literally translated from Flemish) a pull thread/cable. Cause the space between console and seat (in or next to the tunnel) is narrow for a power cable. Push through the pulling cable (3mmthick grounding cable 50cm) from rear to front, attach the power cable and then pull back. BTW. Removing the bonnet box or servo cover plastic in the bonnet, will reveal an unused hole in the car body that enters the cockpit behind the glove box. Youll have to remove the box to see it though. (unscrew inside and underneath) 2) Did you take the carpet out easily? How? Just loosened the edges, it is held with velcro, comes off fairly easy. The carpet (heat and sound deadening one) on the bulkhead has clips. They require some force to remove. 3) Did you rewire your door speaker wires? Any easy tips? Well my dealer told me just to run the cables from the amp/crossovers to the head unit and cut the old ones there and connect the new ones. I disagreed because theres more cable running from the head unit to speakers than there is from the amp/cross to the head unit and this at a lower section. So rewired the hole thing. Again, removing the carpet in the footwells (not entirely, just giving space) youll see where the cables run into the door (through a rubber hose, which you can see when opening your door) Cable speaker run next to the door sill. easy; BUT LABEL THEM (Front-Left/Front-Right/-/+) dont do like I did ending up in a nonworking system. 4) How did you get the power cable in from the front bonnet area..? Is this easy to do? Yes, see Q 1 5) a little extra. Hos did I fit the amp???? Well as I didnt believe what Dieter (poor me, shouls have known, sorry Dieter;-) ) wrote about the free room behind the aluminium bulkhead behind the seats, I unbolted it ( with patience hence all the what 15? bolts)and discovered 0.00mm of space, the fuel tank is like glued to this panel, so folks dont try to screw anything into this panel. This is whatI came up with. I loosen the top bolts, so the pannel came slightly free on top. I took 2 wide (2-3cm) ribbons (polyester, etc in any DIY store) clamped them behind the panel and ran them to the bottem. Where I glued or clamped them again under a bolt holding that same panel(which you will see after removing the two carpets=sound and visual) So I have two ribbons which hold firmly at an equal parallel distance from each other, a distance fit for the amp. From behind, puch through 4 (2,5cm) bolt. Make holes in both carpets, so the bolts come through all the way. Then fit the amp on the bolts and screw it onto the bolts. I now hope I used "bolt" and "screw" in the correct meaning of the word.You could also use plate metal. I checked all my wiring last night and no +/- errors were noticed. And still I saw the membran of the woofers move and producing no sound. Which means there is a conection error +/-. I didnt find it. Could it be that the +/-on the amp (MAGNAT 300 crusader) and the speakers resp. crossovers (infinity 65cs) are out of fase. (German-American procuts???) That cant be can it. Anyways, thanks for the information regarding the wiring. I have to go now and recheck/label the wiring before the weekend ends. cheers, David. (sorry didnt take picures) |
| David |
| David! Thanks so much for the info! You answered ALL the questions I need for my audio isntallation! WOW.. this should be in an archieve Dieter! Thanks for the amp instructions as well. My plan for the amp is like.. 1) take the carpet off (back of driver's seat) 2) get a wooden board (light)and glue gun it to the wall 3) put the carpet over 4) drill holes on the wooden board 5) Attach the amp + velcro is for safety + oh yeah screws Hope you can get the sound running soon! My car will be in dealers for next 7 days for fixing my crossmember again.. (but then i am busy with my study, so it's good..no distraactions :)) What's your audio gear like..? Mine so far. 1) Power Accoustiks 75 x 4 rms @ 4ohm 2) Sony CDX-910 headunit(got this second hand.. a competition unit. It was a bargain!! For 70 pounds. I don't think you can get any better. 20 bit dac / 4v / no preamp / copper housing / etc. etc. / remotes / oh yeah still under warranty...) 3)4 guage cables.. 4)6 x 4 Earthquakes for rear 5)Still with my factory speakers + extra tweeters I bought. Hopefully I can replace this with Blaupunkt 6.5 components.. soon. When I can afford it. ;) |
| Hanah |
| Well Bl**dy H*ll. Why canīt I just read the "howto" manual just like anyone else. But Oh No, David knows "howto". Darn. the Magnat amp manual states that the "ground pole" is the "-" and the "B"attery-pole the "+". When I saw "ground-pole", I wired it to the carīs body shell, In my case however this is "+", battery pole is "-". So thatīs why the woofers were out of phase and were pumping like h*ll and no sound producing. Can anyone be so stupid spending 1 whole day rewiring, labelling, whist the error was so simple. at least I hope so cause I blew the fuse yeasterday. Disconected "-" en fell on the seat giding system, bam gone fuse. So I canīt test it for sure. Hanah: 1. I have a simple Head unit pioneer DEH 3100 (soon to be replaced)4x45W mosfet 2. Front: Infinity Kappa (made a bargain also) 65cs compo set + crossover. 125W max 3. AMP: Magnat crusader 300 2 x 150W max @ 4ohm, 75W RMS 4. rear. Infinity 452i 10cm 2 way speakers 35W RMS, 105 peak. I have the ARTA windstop installed, couldīt fit anything else. cause of reduction in space. (maybe my old VW golf IIīs rear oval Clarions would fit. I still have them. Anything more than 3" doesnīt fit. Anyway, didnīt want 150W blowing in my ears @15cm. just rearfill. might fit an extra xover to filter out high pitched tones. cheers, David. Good luck with the exams I guess? |
| David |
| Hi all It seems that I was right after all. The amp is a neg. ground device and so is my carīs power source. "-" to the body. Strange. I canīt figure out why the speakers are out of phase. Making a mistake in wiring is not really an option.I labelled everything. And for only two speaker, nothing much can go wrong. And still... . My installation manual of the compo kit shows some discrepancies though. Woofers: "+" = red cable = big lug "-" = red/black = small lug tweeters:"+" = yellow = small lug "-" = yellow/green = big lug (although they got suplied with black- black/red cable) The tweeter connection drawing shows 1) a two tone cable (black/grey)with conotation "(+)yellow" and is attached to the big lug and the "-" of the crossover 2) a monochrome colour(grey)with connotation "(-) yellow/green" and is attached to the small lug and the "+" of the crossover. The woofer connection drawing makes more sense: 1)conotation monochrome cable "(+) red" big lug linked to the "+" of the crossover 2) conotation dual tone cable "(-) red/black" small lug linked to the "-" of the crossover. The woofer connections make more sense than the tweeters. Although does the big lug always imply "-" and the small lug always "-"??? With Tweeter/woofers/mid range speakers?? all the same abovementioned principle, I know Iīm hassling you guys with all this, but it (and thatīs not the hassling *LOL*, but getting a sollution)might help to get rid of my frustration being build up these last 4 days of hollidays. (you know the feeling 4 days of working and no response, this results in frustration) cheers, DaviD. |
| David |
| Have been reading alot latley about people putting amps behind the seats but when I looked into it they wouldn't fit with the seat right back. Are all F drivers who are into audio 5 feet tall? My amps are in the boot, one either side. The power cable runs down the left side of the car front to boot with RCA's and speaker cables running back into the cabin from the right. Didn't have to remove any seats to get the wiring in and as the amps are in the boot I didn't need extra room for drilling behind the seats. With referance to any interference an old trick is to rap all wires in three wraps of baking foil. Certainly worked from me on previous cars in competitions. Also the majority of interferance is the result of a bad earth and you can spend ages testing wires, replacing HT leads, fitting coil suppresors etc. Often the cheapest and quickest way to solve this is to run a new negative directly back to the battery. Bob Bell kindly put some pictures of my sub install on his web site if anyones interested see - www.mgf.4mg.com/recommended_ice_installations.htm |
| Dominic |
| OOOppps sorry Rob, slip of the finger and called you Bob! |
| Dominic |
| Hi Dominic, Putting an Amp behind the seats didnīt really result in a loss of comfort when setting the seats right back. But youīre right, the boot gives you the space you need for installing any amp and there are two holes on the "parcel" shelf that lead into the engine compartment hence into the boot. but I am able to transport nearly 3 crates/case (one case holds 24 bottles) of beer/water (1 6x1liter crate and 2 24x25cc crates)and Iīd like to keep it that way. Reading about ICE in resp. magazines Iīve seen a lot of boots being sacrified for it. Itīs all about prioroties I guess. Now, Honey, whereīs tha baking foil,... Thanks, Dave |
| David |
| Dominic, For some strange reason, I am not able to visit Robīs URL (getting nothing but adds), could you send me some images, including the location of the SUB, in the cubby box area? Thanks a lot, David. |
| David |
| Yeh David have the same problem myself with Robs site if I try to go via his home page first, but if you type in the full address as above it takes you straight there! |
| Dominic |
| Dominic cool installation! Where did you guys put your ground cable too..? Any suggestions around seat / or boot area? So suggestions from both David and Dominic would hlep alot. Regards, Hanah P.s. thanks davidfor thegood luck msg! |
| Hanah |
| David, >>Front: Infinity Kappa (made a bargain also) 65cs compo set + crossover. 125W max<< where did you get these from ? I am planning to upgrade my system too ... Cheers, Fabrice |
| Fabrice |
| Where did you guys put your ground cable too..? Ok everything on the F's electrical system earths through the bodywork so in the boot, the ground cables from the two amps simply run into a distribution block and from there one gound wire is connected to one of the bolts at the back of the boot under the carpet which hold the rear bumper on. A good earth is probably the most important thing in preventing interference so you may want to remove some of the paint to get a better contact and you'll never see it. Any suggestions around seat / or boot area? I take it you mean how to run the cable around the seat and into the boot? If thats the case, if you remove the T bar and carpet on the rear shelf and about three inches behind the seat belt rollers theres a rubber blanking gromet. if you drill a hole through these the wires fit through fine. Once in the boot, if you look right underneath the top of the rear quater pannel on either side you'll see an eliptical opening around one and a half inches by three. From the gromet by the shelf you can run directly through the rear quater pannel to this hole in the boot without cutting any holes. If you find this tricky in one go theres also another oval hole at the top of the engine bay on either side which you can reach into to help guide the wires. Its also a good idea to enclose the power cable in some plactice protective sheathing at it goes through the hole into the boot so the cable doesn't rub through, earth, spark and set you're ar*e on fire! |
| Dominic |
| Hannah, Where did I put the ground? Behind the carpets, left and right hand side o/t car, just above the two clips that hold the T-bar in position are two bolts, used to hold the soft top frame I guess. I just unbolted them and fitted the ground. Nothing more to it. My amp gets power up, so current is flowing!! Fabrice, I bought them at www.ibazar.be, from a guy called Eric. The Kappa series is out of production, it has been replaced by the reference series (hence the rear speakers). The guy had some connections to the Infinity main distributors in Belgium. The 65cs fits right into the standard fittings ,no adaptor rings required. I wonīt disclose his e-mail on this bbs cause of privacy reasons. You can mail for this one. cheers David. |
| David |
| >>For some strange reason, I am not able to visit Robīs URL (getting nothing but adds), could you send me some images, including the location of the SUB, in the cubby box area? Thanks a lot,<< !!!!! Is this still happening David? I don't seem to get this problem on either my PC or Mac on either Netscape or IE. Could you let me know? If problems persist, you can always add the '/default.htm' extension to the URL- should work then. Computers, don't you just hate 'em? Cheers Rob |
| Rob Bell |
| now I'm fed up of it, so I better ask it: WHAT MEANS ICE? I know it's car-audio, but since there's no A in ICE... Integrated Car Electronics? Idiots Changed Everything? Intelligent Computer Expert? Induced Cool Erection? Incredible Crap Essentials? thanks for solving this mystery ;) |
| Dirk |
| In-car entertainment. |
| Rob Bell |
| In Car Entertainment |
| Fabrice |
| It is still there rob. Canīt tame the IE beast. Where can I delete "cookies"? |
| David |
| Finally, plugged in the new fuse and bingo. What a clear sound. I can recommend this to everyone. It is such an improvement over the standard speakers. And the small 452iīs in the back are perfect as rear filling. Just having doubts about tweeter position. dieters pos. sound very nice (top of A-pilar). Signing of as a happy man, cheers |
| David |
| >> It is still there rob. Canīt tame the IE beast. Where can I delete "cookies"? << Hmm. :o( What version of IE are you using? This is really annoying... Aren't cookies kept in the temp directory? |
| Rob Bell |
| Dirk ICE = Internal Combustion Engine, these guys are all sprint champions and having an extra engine gives them the edge over the others. David or Rob - Try the biscuit barrel! Sorry can't see properly at the moment! Kite |
| Cpl Kite |
This thread was discussed between 26/05/2001 and 30/05/2001
MG MGF Technical index
This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGF Technical BBS is active now.