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MG MGF Technical - Fuel Pump Connector

Yesterday my car refused to start - in a cemetery of all places ! It had run ok earlier in the morning, but then decided to fire up & then die imediately.

Had to call out the AA since I had no tools etc with me.

We traced the fault to a burnt connector pin on the top of the fuel pump. The 'male' pin (part of the integral connector on top of the pump) was okay - the fault was that the 'female' pin in the loom plug was clearly burnt. A telephone call to the nearest Rover dealer established that this plug was part of the loom and not available as a seperate item - which I find hard to believe. Surely Rover use standard commercial connectors?!*!

Refitting the plug several times cured the problem & got me running, but its bound to go again.

Had a search of the archives but can find no relative threads.

Does anybody have any information on these connectors?

Or, does anybody have a right-off, and are prepared to cut this section of cable from their loom?

The cable runs for about 12 inches (300mm) before it joins the main loom. This would allow me to splice a new section in.

Appreciate any help.
Tony

Tony

PS: Forgot to add that my car is an MGF 1.8i,
first Registered December 1996.

Tony
Tony

If you could find a car in a breakers with the same fuel pump (old Rover?) you could chop off the connector and fit it to the loom.

Brian

Tony, Did they give you a price for fitting a new loom?
Will Munns

Brian,

<If you could find a car in a breakers with the same fuel pump (old Rover?) you could chop off the connector and fit it to the loom.>

Do you know which old Rover the MGF pump is compatible with?


Will,

<Tony, Did they give you a price for fitting a new loom? >

No, but I expect it's a hell of a lot! :-)

Tony
Tony

Yep so do I- especially as it would involved ripping the ENTIRE car apart! I just wanted to know how much they expected you to shell out for a burnt connector

Will
Will Munns

>Surely Rover use standard commercial connectors?!*!

As far as I know, this connectors design is from TYCO (AMP). Used at cars only and normally all connectors at one car are coded at the circumference with different notches/gaps.
I don't think the OEM plugs are availiable for none industrial private use.

Tony,

>Or, does anybody have a right-off, and are prepared to cut this section of cable from their loom?

:)

if you could upload a picture of the plug, (front view) then I could look at my spare harness in the cellar.

http://www.mgfcar.de/defects/tank1.jpg

Dieter
Dieter Koennecke

Dieter,

<As far as I know, this connectors design is from TYCO (AMP). Used at cars only and normally all connectors at one car are coded at the circumference with different notches/gaps. >

Seem to remember that it had 3 notches, one on each side, but I'll have to open up the cover again and get a take a photo. It may be a few days before I can send it to you, but thanks in advance Dieter.

I'll also do a search on web and see if I can recognise it.

Tony



Tony

Looked up somehere else. No need for pictures from your side.

It is a 4 position plug.
Not a common part IMO. with round contacts.

Pin # and colour code

1 GB (sensor)
2 B
3 B
4 WP (Pump)

# 2 and # 3 seam to be earth wires.
White-Pink is the pump.

I think easy to identify in the loom. Though I need to find it
*g* think about already who much it's worth :))

More tomorrow.

Regards
Dieter
Dieter Koennecke

Can't you just cut off both male and female connectors and make a permanent soldered joint.
You'd have to repeat the process if you ever needed to replace the pump but so what.
jt
John Thomas

Dieter,
Thanks.

John,
If you look at the photo link that Dieter has posted, you'll see that one half of the connector is an integral part of the pump top, and does not lend itself to being modified very easily. Since the problem is in the loom half of the connector, that's the part to splice.

Tony
Tony

Dieter,

Its definitely 4 pin, but with flat contacts. Two wires are black, but I can't remember the other two.

Tony
Tony

Dieter,

If you look at
http://www.members.aol.com/apttony/Pics/FuelConnector.JPG you will see an impression that I've made of the connector. You can see the overall housing of the connector & just make out the internal connector pin housing.

The colour coding on mine is different....
BLACK/GREEN
BLACK
YELLOW/BROWN
BLACK

Of course, with age, WHITE/PINK may now look like YELLOW/BROWN ! :-))

I'm not sure of the numbering or the function, but it's the YELLOW/BROWN one that giving the problem and I suspect that this is the PUMP since this is the one that is not functioning. This is also the heavier duty wire.

Regards
Tony

Tony

White and purple NOT pink is the feed to the pump.If you get stuck for a connector let me know Tony, mike
mike

Mike,

I can't be sure that Dieter will be able to find what I need. Do you know specific details of required connector?

Tony
Tony

http://www.mgfcar.de/teile/harness_cp_0647.jpg
The source :)

http://www.mgfcar.de/fueltank/DCP_0650.JPG
Splits from the main harness near the big sealing where the harness gets into the engine bay. The HT rear screen heater connector harness is at the same location.
The wires are led through another sealing to the fuel tank sender unit.

http://www.mgfcar.de/fueltank/connector_cp_0649.jpg
http://www.mgfcar.de/fueltank/front_cp_0654.jpg
Connector is special made. No other from the MGF will fit.
I think that industrial 2.8mm spade connectors will be in there.

So try standard 2.8mm crimp spade connectors before you solder to the connections of the sender unit.
Good isolation recommended in any way.

On the other hand you can try to get the spade connectors out of the retainer housing. They are pushed in from the rear and are help by thin brackets. These can be bend back by pushing a thin wire to the front beside the spade connectors. The same job as at all this connectors.

Dieter
Dieter Koennecke

Oops, I wrote offline and didn't see the previous posts.

Tony,
I think the wire colours are anyway. Both black are earth and the big one is the pump.

If you like to dismantle the contacts, then careful try to pull off the yellow front facia from the retainer housing at first.
Dieter Koennecke

Dieter,

Thanks for that. Looks the same as mine.

I've had a look at TYCO / AMP web site and found some similar connectors but still not 100% sure they are the right ones - very difficult to identify.
Pity they don't put part numbers on them !

Will get hold of some crimp spade connectors tomorrow and test them for size.

Tony





Tony

Had a look at a TYCO / AMP catalogue today. Looks to be AMP #174257 / #174259, but need to measure & compare to drawing.

However, also looks to be a part that may be difficult to get hold due to age.

Mike.....you sound as though you might be able to help me out. Please e-mail me.

Tony

Tony

*g*
Tony,
looks not bad !!
http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/TE/docs/pdf/4/79/165974.pdf

I can confirm the inner measure 10 x 12.7
Not sure about the contact distance.
Mine is 6.5mm, but the TYCO says 5.6mm !!
174257-2 is the part number.

LOL ... I'll call my Arrows service guy tomorrow, worth to get a sample in any way if availiable. The drawing says clear 'customer part', so also some doubts.

Mike may be the fastest option. It's better you call him tomorrow.
Please let me know if he wants to much ;)
I'll bid below then, though it will last two weeks.

Cheers
Dieter
PS. FAO Will Munns. DOOH ! I just see the Cherry switches for you on my workdesk. :( Shame on me, I'll send them tomorrow.
Dieter Koennecke

Nice new research game. Tony Smith would call me insane ;)

No clear instructions. Only some stuff for later searches !!

0.070 Serie is to look for
(refers to metric 2.8mm spade connectors)
(0.250 is the bigger 6.3mm spade)
housing only 174257-2 or 178398-2 or 6-178398-6 or 178399-2

Contacts Receptacle
Loose piece No. 171699
Contact Tab (spade I think)
Loose piece No 173600

Contacts Receptacle etc. for the rear rubber plug thingy.
SSC Series (Sealed Sensor Connector)
http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/TE/docs/pdf/2/38/208832.pdf

Whow, I've seen the 174262, as well at any other place
6 Position. ECONOSEAL J MARK II CONNECTOR PLUG HOUSING
http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/TE/docs/pdf/8/79/165978.pdf

2 position plugs for the damn sensors in different colours
Housing only 178390-2 or 178390-6 or 174373-2 or 178390-3
174352-2 is availiable at

Hot sure, but this one looks like the ABS plug
http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/TE/docs/pdf/8/54/189458.pdf

This is a may be fitting rubber plug 172888-2
Availiable @ http://www.gopherelectronics.com/prodsearch.asp?_x=ECONOSEAL+&submit1=GO

But not the four position you need.
ECONOSEAL & AMP TYCO to keep in mind for the archives.

Cheers
Dieter
Dieter Koennecke

Dieter,

Aren't catalogues, hardcopy or electronic, fun ? :-)) LOL

I have a hardcopy at the office & found it much easier to scan through than using the web site.

Unfortuneately, Mike has not provided his e-mail address so I am not sure who he is. Perhaps you could e-mail his address to me since he has not picked up on my question to him.

Tony
Tony

Almost useless to email to 'this' Mike. ;)
I think that guy needs an IT worker to sort the loads Emails, but he hasn't.
MS
Phone: 01709 890555
Fax: 01709 890642
Dieter Koennecke

Dieter,

All is now clear! I had thought that this 'Mike' might have been MS, but lets face it, its a pretty common name. :-)

Thanks..........I'll give him a call.
Tony
Tony

>Aren't catalogues, hardcopy or electronic, fun ? :-)) LOL

I'm afraid, what is a catalogue good for. It burns in fire, I know ;) LOL
I have only one important. The Electronica Fair thing/ Munich 2000.
The other is surfing, google, surfing and google and online access to Arrows and 'some more'.

So far the purchase guy.

Dieter Koennecke

This thread was discussed between 17/05/2002 and 22/05/2002

MG MGF Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGF Technical BBS is active now.