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MG MGB Technical - Wiring hi-torque starter in '79 B

Installed one of the hi-torque starters in my '79 MGB, and found no place to connect the white/green wire that used to go to the small spade on the stock solenoid. The coil is still stock, so I believe I need to connect this white/green wire somehow, to get the starting spark strength back up where it should be. Extensive research in the archives have yielded tantalizing hints, but no straightforward how-to. Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
Chris Foleen

Hi Chris.

The white / light green wire is there to bypass the ballast resistor during cranking, ie to provide full battery voltage to the coil while the battery voltage is low due to the high load from the starter motor.

You may find that you don't actually need it for reliable starting if you only use the car in warmish weather, so simply taping the wire up might be all that is needed. If you have CD ignition you certainly don't need it.

I am not familiar with US spec cars, but (assuming that I have the correct diagram) connecting the white / light green to the brown / white that connects the starter solenoid relay to the starter motor solenoid would have the same effect.
This it would, of course, increase the loading on the starter solenoid relay, so a more bullet proof solution might be to provide another relay (also operated from the 'start' position of the ignition switch) to provide a direct battery feed to the coil during cranking.

Don
Don

Thanks, Don. You're quite right, hard starting is the reason I want to connect that wire. Recent cold-wet weather here in the Pacific Northwest leaves me cranking away for far too long.
Your suggestion of connecting it through a relay but I am in need of more detail. What type relay? Where to connect the white/green wire, and where would the 12-volt "hot" and ignition connection come from? I'm a complete tyro when it comes to auto electrical stuff.
BTW, I just was in Cornwall last week (Praze-An-Beeble, near Cambourne). Wonderful place.
Chris Foleen

Hi Chris.

A common normally open (N/O) automotive relay will do the job. One with a mounting tag so that you can secure it to the bulkhead would be a good idea.

I think I would disconnect the white / green wire at both ends and put some new wiring in place, so that the wiring could be put back to standard if someone in the future felt inclined to do so, also the new wiring will be easier to trace / understand if someone needs to investigate it in the future.
Tape the loose ends up.
I would also make a note of the modification in your workshop manual or somewhere similar.

I would put the new relay near the ignition coil.
One side of the RELAY coil needs to go to earth, while the other connection to the RELAY coil needs to be connected to the wire that goes between the starter solenoid relay and the starter motor solenoid (brown / white on my diagram). I would make the actual connection at the starter solenoid relay using a 'piggy back' connector.

A new wire from either of the relay contacts needs to go to the tag on the IGNITION coil where the white / green used to go.
The other relay contact needs to go to a 12V feed (ie a convenient brown wire, easy on a UK model, not sure on a US one) via a 5A fuse (or thereabouts),
I suggest that you invest in a proper ratchet tool for fitting crimp connectors, they are much better than the simple ones, and use cable ties to secure the new wiring in place.

I'm glad you enjoyed your visit to Cornnwall, it is a very special place with a unique character.

Don
Don

Hi Don,

Wonderful. I will try your method today, and report back the hopefully successful results.

Thanks!
Chris Foleen

A stock coil with an electronic set of points should have no problem throwing plenty of spark even with the ballast resistor in line.

The gear drive starters also draw down the voltage less than the stock starter and consequently leave more voltage available for the coil.

Try bypassing the resistor entirely and see if that helps your starting. If you run it all the time without the resistor you run the risk of overheating your coil. I ran my B a few years back, for about 3000 miles with no ballast resistor and had no problem. The coil got a little hot to the touch though. I finally decided it was prudent to put a resistor in place. The coil was cooler, but no apparent difference in spark or performance.

Barry
Barry Parkinson

Chris, hard starting? It must be cold - I assume all other aspects (ignition, timing, carbs, choke) are set up well - after all these cars were designed to run in the cold of England! :)

Curtis Walker

The coil boost circuit can make a difference under marginal conditions such as poor state of tune, cold damp weather (rather than cold and dry), weak battery etc. but otherwise shouldn't make that much difference. If an MGB is a poor starter there is something wrong with it.
Paul Hunt 2

I agree with Paul - what I meant to write was 'it must be REALLY cold'...a high-torque starter is an attempt at a symptomatic cure, rather than finding and treating the cause.
Curtis Walker

A geared starter does have other benefits, so much so that even I opted for one at one time, only to find its mechanical construction was so poor that it fell off after two days (neither did it have the coil boost contact) so I went back to a 'proper' one. Yet another confirmation (if any were needed) that modern technology on an MGB is usually crap and a waste of money. The first time I cranked it on the geared starter I thought the pinion hadn't engaged, it was so quiet, then it fired up and near gave me a second (the first being the suspected non-engagement) heart attack. Whilst that is just a 'decorative' benefit tests have shown that they take about half of the current of a standard starter, hence half the drain on the battery, and half the reduction of coil voltage, whilst spinning the engine nearly twice as fast! Now the construction has improved I'll probably opt for one next time ... in about another 150,000 miles.
Paul Hunt 2

Chris

Who did you buy your starter from?

If it is one of ours, they have had the third contact for a few years now, but it is kinda hidden, over tucked under the heavy blue wire, a small screw terminal.
Keith Gustafson

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Anthony Eselu

yeah - rather than all these millions Tony, see if you can get your minions to fly over to the UK and pay my garage bill/do the welding themselves, be so much more preferable for me! and if you can see your way clear to giving me one of those gadgets for getting the clip back on a rear brake cylinder, then hey, the deal is on!
sheesh - dont these people realise that as MG owners we are all highly selective, intelligent types who cannot be scammed by this sort of stuff. now, magnets, potions and pills to improve fuel consumption and make us go faster on the the other hand.............
mick
m rae

For m rae
Do you still have some of those pills to put in the gas tank and increase my gas milage up to 60mpg while also doubling the horsepower??? I thought the major car makers had bought them all up, along with the Fish carburettor years ago.
I've already installed one of the magnettic clamp on devices for my fuel line to "align the electrons" in the gasoline to make it burn more completely, but still can't get 60mpg from my "B".
Wayne Hardy

Wayne - nah, i took them myself when i ran out of viagra - i now run for 60 miles on only 3 pints, and have more horsepower than i thoughy desirable. pity the car doesnt.
mick
m rae

This thread was discussed between 24/02/2006 and 09/03/2006

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