MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MGB Technical - Wire Wheel wobbles

I have a '73 BGT with stainless chrome wires, only done c. 3000 miles. I get vibration between 65 and 80mph, which is really annoying! The wheels have been balanced by an experienced fitter who knows all about cones etc, but says that they are not completely true. Does anyone know of a wheels specialist in the West Midlands (or preferably Shrewsbury!) that may be able to adjust them?

many thanks

Jonathan Davies
JN Davies

Are you sure he knows about cones? Using an inner cone on the inside and an outer cone on the outside? Did you see the wobble on the machine? Have you confirmed it on the car? I only ask because I was told the same by a 'professional', he showed me the wobble on the machine, but they are perfect on the car. Vibration at the wheel at those speeds does indicate out-of-balance, but unless it is located on the machine properly they will always balance them incorrectly. With V8 alloys I had constant wheel wobble for the life of one set of tyres despite repeated rebalancing, it seemed to be beyond the machines (modern computerised type) capabilities.

Not Shrewsbury, but I take mine to a one-man (well, one man and his Dad) business in Smethwick - Phillips, 0121 558 5942, cash only, no change (well it *is* a small business!). I've never had a balance problem with my wires even though I would not let them put any weights on when I first had them and fitted part-worn tyres off my old Rostyles which *did* have weights. When I had new tyres on the front they put weights on the inside rims without asking me. I use Phillips to replace spokes, which I break one or two of a year. He does those while I wait, wobble-correction would probably take longer.
Paul Hunt

JN there is an on car balance system that uses a wheel spinner while the wheel is still mounted on the car. You may have a hard time finding one as the ones I've seen are rather old.But, I have found that they are the best for isolating the offending wheel that may turn out to me an offending tire. Short of finding a spinner you can jack up the car in a safe manor and spin each wheel using the motor [rear] or spin it by hand on the front.Watch them as they spin you will be able to see if there are any problems,Ric
R E L Lloyd

I have been experienceing the same problem, but with the bolt on wires purchased from Victoria British. I have had the wheels checked for true, tires balanced 4 times. still have a serious shake at higher speeds. My front end has been totaly rebuilt and checked. I'm actually trying new tires this Friday. All the experts and still can't resolve the problem.
Ray Huckleberry

Short of on-car balancing, have stud-mounted wheels fitted to the machine using the purpose-built stud adapter and not the centre holes.
Paul Hunt

Thanks Guys
Jonathan Davies

Jonathan; What did you find? Don't keep it to yourself ,there has to be other movers and shakers who are quivering in antisipation! RIC
R E L Lloyd

Could also be out-of-round tires. You can't believe how out-of-round even good tires are. I had a vibration problem on a 240Z and after I had my tires trued up on a lathe the nasty vibration disappeared. Look for a business that sells racing tires as they generally shave tires as well.
M Landskroner

I am going through this process myself at the moment. My tyre specialist has had problems balancing the wheels. I was even told that one Rostyle was buckled so I purchased another. I have two new Pirelli 1000's fitted on the front and that was much better, wobble now starts at 65 ish, I think I have a bit of play in the steering column so I plan to replace that, as well as have another two new tyres fitted on the back. I can't find anybody within 25 miles of Bishops Stortford that balances tyres on the car so that doesn't seem to be an option. I live near Stansted airport using airport transfers tonbridge - so I often wonder how do they get the tyres and wheels balanced on aircraft? I am told by my garage that this is definitely a balancing problem but darned dificult to solve.
John
J.A. Gearing

Rostyles were reknowned for their distortion even when new. When Abingdon tested the V8 wheels they commented "they were also round and concentric, which is more than we can say for some other wheels". "Also" being in addition to being unable to break them in extreme testing.
Paul Hunt

Well my fall back if I can't get it right with the above is to go for alloys on the basis that everything else is set up correctly therefore it must be the rostyles.It's all a bit hit and miss though isn't it.
John
J.A. Gearing

Many thanks for all of this. I intend to sort this at the same time as replacing the discs - as I did lastyear but this timne I will replace the hib bearings as well - they seem OK but doing both cured a disc warping problem on my Rover 214 a few years ago - I'll do the wheel as the same time then fingers crossed........

More worrying now is a sudden but irregular thirst for oil. I've probably been stupid by changing to fully synthetic 5w/40, thinking it would be better for intermittent use, and I suspect it has dislodged some muck - I fear this has done some damgae but I'll do a flush and filter change and refill first, just in case..........

Fun aren't they!
JN Davies

I've been dealing with this problem on my MGA all summer. My last resort will be to ship the wheels and tires to Hendrix Wire Wheel this winter.

Here's what I've done:
1. 3 spin balances with cones for wires and many gravity balances
2. moved wheels ft ro back etc.
3. true wires to within .020" both radially and laterally-(factory spec for wires is .040")
4. Checked upper and lower link bushings(new)
5. reset and tighten mgbv8 rubber bushings
6. replaced steering rack dampers which were badly worn
7. balanced ft brake drums (not for mgb but they were really off)
8. replaced ft lever shocks with rebuilt from world wide auto in Madison, WI (this is the first thing that really made a difference in the 60-65mph shake)
9. reseated wheel bearings with Locktite bearing retainer to take out sloppiness. (different set-up with mgb)
10. DIY shaved tires which are very oversized for an mga(205/65/15) This REALLY helped. On jackstands, I used another jackstand for a rest and spun the tire by hand and carefully chalked the high spots. Both ft tires were out by .100". Then, using the same set-up, I used an angle grinder to remove rubber much like a lathe. Holding the grinder at the right angle keeps the tire spinning while you grind.
11. Nylon bushings in top and bottom of steering column
12. new u-joint in steering column

Still have the shakes but now it's about 1/3 of what it was. My feelings are that it's the TIRES - Dunlop SP20

Fred H

I really don't think that low viscosity fully synthetic oil is recommended for 'older' engines with their original large bearing clearances let alone after many tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of miles. Brands like Castrol and even Halfords mark their cans for 'older', 'worn', 'modern', 'fuel injected' etc. engines as appropriate and I wouldn't like to go against that. Some semi-synthetics *are* recommended for older engines.
Paul Hunt

There is a tyre company in Wrexham called Hi-Speed tyres. Theses guys have a balancer that spins up the wheel while on the car so that the hub etc. is all balanced together. They have sorted my '72 wire wheel MGB a few times now. Always had a good service there.
steve
S Coulson

Just found this:

"Equipment Suppliers Gazing at the Garage of the Future

"The study found that whilst functions such as wheel balancing and alignment have remained the same in terms of basic principles, the actual performance of the machines have been enhanced through the use of the latest computer and electronic techniques. Further, 'all wheel alignment' and 'on car wheel balancing' are techniques which are of increasing interest where attention to vehicle performance, road-holding and passenger comfort are prime considerations."

The people who wrote that probably weren't even around when on-car was the *only* dynamic method.
Paul Hunt

Amongst the small ads in Enjoying MG magazine from MGOC I found a Company called Solent Wheels at Romsey. I phoned them up and explained my problem of unbalanced Rostyle wheels and they sounded very confident that they could sort it out. They have the laths for trueing up the wheels.So I've booked an appointment for the 14th September and we shall see how my B Roadster drives back along the M3 afterwards. Anybody else used this Company?
John
J.A. Gearing

Fantastic! - many thanks everyone
Jonathan Davies

+According to the Hunter Engineering Company, wheel vibration control is more than just wheel "balancing".
They are now selling a piece of testing and vibration control equipment that measures the variance in sidewall and tread stiffness of tires that locates and corrects deficiencies that the best wheel balance job available will never resolve.

Read about it here: http://www.hunter.com/pub/product/product.htm
Go to "GSP 9700 Vibration Control System" and then " Why the GSP 9700?"

I had a terrible problem with the front of a "non-MG" LBC bouncing off the road, and the local shop with this gear were able to identify a bad tire that was "balanced" by another shop with more than 10 oz. of weight. After they identified the problem, they rotated the tire on the rim according to the computer read out, rebalanced it dynamically with only 1 1/2 oz of weight to zero, and the problem was solved.

Looked like magic to me, until I read the technical blab on the Hunter website, above.

I have no commercial interest, etc. etc. But if you have an unresolvable wheel vibration problem, you could do worse than try one of these set-ups. From their website dealer locator, they appear to be all ove the world.

Best of luck with your vibration control problems. noting drives me crazier than a vibrating, pounding steering wheel!

Dave
Dave Munroe

Dave
This looks interesting but the GSP9700 doesn't appear to be available in the UK. I've emailed their agent for the UK and waiting their response. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
John
J.A. Gearing

But does it handle wires?

Larry
Larry Hallanger

Larry;

This is an interesting question. My car has wires, and after getting "the treatment", I still have an annoying bit of vibration. According to their sales pitch, if your car still shakes after having your wheels subjected to the "road force variation" test and cure, then you can rule out your wheels as the source of the problem.

But upon reflection, the equipment just may be a little too much, even for a good, sturdy set of wires. The roller puts 1500 pound of pressure on the tire as it revolves at something like 10 rpm or so (very slowly) so the computer can record the tire deflection differences around the circumference.

My car, and indeed, most LBC's, weigh in at 2400 to 3000 pounds, between 600 and 750 pounds on average per wheel. Subjecting these wheels to 1500 pounds of pressure may very well cause a deflection that they weren't designed to handle, which would really screw up the computer.

I am going to investigate this further with Hunter through their website, and will report back their response.

John: I saw some reference to Hunter UK on their website, but the equipment may very well not have arrived there yet. My local tire bandit store has two; one they claim they have had for a year, and a very new one which they claim is second generation, and indeed it does look a bit more imposing, with a larger pressure wheel and enhanced computer capabilities. Hopefully you will get this gear soon, as although it may not solve wire wheel vibration problems, it has got to be state of the art for all other wheel types. Best of luck with your vibration.....wish me luck with mine as well!!

Dave
Dave Munroe

This thread was discussed between 05/08/2003 and 06/09/2003

MG MGB Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGB Technical BBS is active now.