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MG MGB Technical - Turn Signal Stalk, etc., Positioning

Hi All,

I hope this makes sense.

steering wheel is not centered. Trying to determine if it's not centered on the column splines or off-center 'cause of tie rod adjustment.

I think I read somewhere that the position of the turn signal canceling pin will give a clue. On my car LHD '63, the steering wheel is turned clockwise several degrees when the wheels are straight. The turn signal stalk (on the left side of the column) is not parallel to the ground surface but points upward, clockwise, in what appears to be an angle similar to the steering wheel offset. The canceling pin on the right side of the column points clockwise downward at a similar angle.

If I didn't know better, I'd say the steering wheel is in the correct position w.r.t the splines and the canceling pin, and the stalk has been rotated slightly clockwise so the canceling pin is centered between its two tripping tabs when the wheels are pointed straight ahead.

I guess the simpler question is: should the turn signal stalk normally be oriented parallel to the ground, and, when the wheels are straight ahead, should the long axis of the canceling pin on the opposite side also be oriented parallel to the ground?

OK, Thanks, Cheers,
Greg
Greg Van Hook

Greg - The turn signal should be parallel to the floor boards. If you remove it from the outer tube of the steering column, you will note a hole in the tube pretty much opposite the hold down clamp and a corresponding tip in the center of the curve on the main body of the turn signal switch. That tip (or what's left of it should seat into the hole, establishing the orientation of the switch. The canceling pin should be then be aligned by rotating the inner column of the steering shaft, provided that the steering arms from the rack are approximately the same length on either side. This is a rather fussy alignment, consisting of removal of the lower pinch bolt from the U joint in the steering column, pulling the steering shaft out far enough to disengage the splines of the U joint from the lower section of the column, rotating the column to the approximate correct position, reengaging the splines and see if things lie up correctly, the trying several more times to get it right (note: be careful when reengaging the splines of the U joint that the horn ground contact is lifted to clear the slip ring and doesn't get crammed down when the column is pushed down - don't ask). After getting the canceling aligned in the correct place, remove the steering wheel from the column and rotate it to the correct position. Doing all of this should keep you off the street and out of trouble for most of a weekend. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Ugh........... Thanks Dave!
Greg Van Hook

This is kind of a chicken or the egg thing.

If my steering wheel had horizontal spokes, they would be parallel to the long axis of the canceling pin. So that would suggest that the steering wheel is on the column splines correctly and I need to line up the inner column spines at the U-joint. IF THE TIE RODS ARE ADJUSTED PROPERLY.

When I look at the tie rods, there appears to be an approximate equal number of threads exposed at each tie rod end. But, I have 1/2-inch toe-out, so I know they are not adjusted properly.

It'll be easy to get back to the proper toe-in, then I'm not sure if I should just make further adjustments at the tie rods to center the wheel or what?

WHERE DO I START? Shouldn't I start with finding the center of lock-to-lock and seeing where the steering wheel ends up?

Cheers,
Greg
Greg Van Hook

The screwed-in peg on early columns should be situated equidistant between the cancelling fingers of the turn switch, and facing the switch not away from it. Later columns have a cam that can be slid round the column to face in the correct direction (same as above i.e. between the fingers). This should mean that the wheel need do a 1/4-turn or so before the peg or cam passes under the fingers, and so will cancel the switch when the wheel is sytraightened.

Earlier columns have to be inserted into the UJ in the correct position *and* the track-rod-ends set so as to give an equal number of turns to lock in each direction (the track-rods and ends could be slightly different each side giving a difefrent number of exposed threads), then the steering wheel fitted to the column splines to get the correct alignment. Later columns only need the track-rod end adjustment, the column itself can be positioned anywhere as the cam can be slid round to the correct position. It doesn't matter whether the switch points horizontally or slightly upwards, it is the relationship between peg/cam and switch that is important.

In other words you need to start at the rack and work up through the column to the wheel.
Paul Hunt 2010

Thanks Paul,

So it looks like no matter what, I need to disconnect the column from the U-joint if only to orient the peg back on the stalk side. Now I know why my signals don't always cancel!

I'm not at the car now, but as a LHD car, I think that U-joint is kind of buried - or is it up near the firewall? Just hope that upper pinch bolt is accessible.

Greg

Greg Van Hook

Greg - The U joint is easily accessible on the drivers side of the car. You have to work with the lower end of the U joint since the clearance grove on the lower column is machined completely around the shaft. The upper shaft only has the grove in one place on the shaft, so it can't be rotated. the problem I ran into is that with the U joint attached to the upper portion of the shaft, there is insufficient room to get the U joint completely off the lower shaft. The result was that I had to remove the upper shaft from the U joint, then the U joint from the lower shaft, guesstimate the amount or rotation of the U joint, then reinstall the U joint to the lower shaft and finally the upper shaft to the U joint - only to find that I either didn't rotate the U joint far enough or over shot and had to start over again - Double Ugh. Cheers - Dave

PS. You may be smarter than I am or have a better eye to the rotation needed and find a way to only have to do everything once.
David DuBois

Dave,

You're talking about the groove for the pinch bolt, right?

Seeing as how we have the same luck with log splitters, I doubt I have a better eye than you!

Triple Ugh......

Greg
Greg Van Hook

I've got a '67 with the same setup. The upper part of the U joint coupler has the pinch bolt that only fits in a single place, whereas the lower splined shaft can fit anywhere that you like in the coupler. The cancelling button, on the steering shaft, must be oriented at the 9 o'clock position and the turn signal switch has a peg that locates it at the same spot. Let's not even get onto the subject of log splitters. I'm running low on firewood and it's the now's the time to start getting ready for next Winter. RAY
rjm RAY

Oy vey. Lock-to-lock on the TC is easy at 1.7 turns. 2.93 turns on this car. Guess I need to make a giant protractor and find the center of 1.465 turns to the right and 1.465 turns to the left.

At this point, I've stopped being surprised at some of the hideous PO stuff I've found.

I guess that's what makes it fun.

Barely made it through last winter with 3 major snowstorms and dwindling fire wood. I will not, however, ever touch another log splitter.

Cheers,
Greg
Greg Van Hook

One suggestion on this. Take the steering wheel and housing off, undo the pinch bolt on the upper shaft and put the steering wheel back on. This will give the leverage to pull it out of the yoke.

Dave's correct in that there is not enough clearance between the yoke and the firewall to get the lower shaft off without taking the upper out.
Bruce Cunha (1950 TD 4139)

Thanks Bruce. You mean it's not just going to slide right out? Think I'll ever get it back in?

By "housing", do you mean the upper and lower plastic parts that hide the turn signal guts and wiring? I've taken that off, and the steering wheel's still on. Do I need to take the steering wheel off?

Greg
Greg Van Hook

Greg - Yes, the housing is the two plastic halves held together by four screws. If the steering wheel is out of alignment by the same amount the shaft is, then it won't have to come off. I would leave it on until you have the shaft aligned properly, then take it off and align it if necessary.

No protractor needed for the cancel pin - it needs to be positioned at 9 o'clock. that centers it between the two canceling levers on the turn signal stalk assembly. What you may find, is that the assembly is broken and the signals won't cancel anyway - if it is not that way now, it will be after a period of time. That assembly seems to be less than robust. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

On the early B, the shaft slides down through a steel tube. If I remember correctly, the turn signal hooks to the outside of the outer tube. there is a metal finger coming off of the turn signal switch that runs on a brass sleve that is on the inner shaft. That is the horn connection. Just make sure the finger does not get behind the sleve when you push the shaft back down.

Actually, a litte penetrating oil spray where the shafts fit into the yoke and it should come out ok. Goes back ok also I thought this would be hard when I redid my steering rack, but it actually was not all that bad.
Bruce Cunha (1950 TD 4139)

"You have to work with the lower end of the U joint since the clearance grove on the lower column is machined completely around the shaft"

It's the other way round on both of mine, the cut-out for the bolt is in the rack shaft, the column shaft is machined all the way round. It's relatively easy to undo the bolts attaching the rack to the crossmember and pull that forward (track rods still attached, wheels off the ground) to give more space to fully disconnect the UJ. Watch out for shims between rack and crossmember, put them back in the same place.
Paul Hunt 2010

This thread was discussed between 04/06/2010 and 09/06/2010

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