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MG MGB Technical - Tips for Pulling Engine

I'm planning to pull the engine and transmission from my 70B. Can anyone point me to a source for tips to do this? The last time I did this was from a 72 midget in 1978

Thank you
T Litty

Haynes manual?...or Bentley!
Dave O'Neill 2

Did mine with a come-along and a floor jack. Covered the wheel wells with blankets, attached a chain to the engine and a floor jack under the rear axle. Slowly lifted the engine/trans out and as we went up with the lift, rolled the chassis rearward and jacked up the back end. Took 3 guys two beers each to get it removed without scratching anything. Oh yes: radiator and support removed also.
T Lea

T-
Pulling the engine out of the car need not be an exercise in fear. Get at least one friend to help out, as it is not an easy job on your own. Although it may seem that the removal would be easier if the engine and transmission were separated while still in the car, the easiest way is to pull the engine and transmission as one unit with your engine hoist located directly in front of the car. It is possible to pull the engine separately, but to do so incurs the risk of damaging the first motion shaft of the transmission. In addition, realigning the engine with the transmission still in place can be maddening.

You may find that it is best to remove the crankshaft’s harmonic balancer pulley wheel retaining bolt prior to removing the engine from the car. The crankshaft’s harmonic balancer pulley wheel retaining bolt in the end of the crankshaft is not standard Whitworth, but is of Whitworth form: Diameter 1 5/8", 16 TPI, 1 1/16 full thread. If it is found necessary to clean up the thread, the operation must be confined to cleaning up only. This thread is highly stressed and must always be up to full size. Thus, it is not correct to use an American - SAE - UNF form tap in order to clean these up, though you might get by in the end of the crankshaft, but definitely not on the bolt. To my knowledge, this is the one and only British form threaded fastener on any of these engines. Note that BSF is 5/8-14, and not 16 TPI. UNF is 5/8-18. CEI starts with 20 TPI at ½" and up. In order to remove the crankshaft’s harmonic balancer pulley wheel retaining bolt, the most professional method is to use an impact wrench. This method has the advantage that you do not have to worry about blocking the flywheel (if engine is separated from transmission, or blocking the wheels with transmission in gear). Another, and much more common, method for loosening the crankshaft’s harmonic balancer pulley wheel retaining bolt is to place your 1 5/16” wrench / breaker bar against the left chassis rail (as you are sitting in the car). Put some wood or something soft against the chassis rail in order to prevent scratches. Disconnect the coil so that the engine cannot start. Blip the starter briefly, and the bolt will be jarred loose.

Remove the gearshift lever (gear change lever) surround, raise the gearlever boot, then unscrew the gearshift lever (gear change lever) retaining bolts and lift out the gearshift lever (gear change lever). Drain the oil from the sump and disconnect the oil cooler and the oil pressure gauge hose (flexible pipe) from the engine, then remove the oil cooler. Disconnect both the throttle and choke (mixture control) cables, then disconnect the fuel lines from the carburettors. Remove the carburettors and intake manifold as a single unit, along with the exhaust manifold, distributor, alternator, heater valve, hot water pipe, hot water hoses (flexible pipes) and oil filter stand in order to lessen the total amount of weight to be moved about and to protect these components from being damaged. If your engine is equipped with antipollution equipment, it should also be removed prior to attempting to remove the engine from the car. Drain the coolant from the radiator and, if you are fortunate enough to have a petcock installed onto the side of your engine, drain the engine block as well. Next, disconnect the thermal transmitter for the coolant temperature gauge, and then disconnect the coolant hoses (flexible pipes) from the water pump and the water outlet elbow. Now, crawl under the car. Do not forget to both disconnect the front mounting bracket for the exhaust system located on the bell housing of the transmission and remove the grounding strap. Chrome Bumper models had the ground strap on one of the front motor mounts where it connected the engine front plate to the chassis. The Rubber Bumper cars had their grounding strap on the right transmission mount where it connects from the forward bolt holding the transmission mount to the transmission and the transmission crossmember. While you are under the car, remove both the electric starter and its solenoid, the clutch slave cylinder from the bellhousing, as well as the speedometer drive cable from the main gearbox casing. Next, disconnect the driveshaft (propeller shaft) as well, and then disconnect the solenoid on the overdrive. Crawl out from under the car and then loosen the front motor mounts, then remove the gearshift knob and the shift boot retainer plate. Be aware that ¼ x 28 (fine thread) x ½” PoziDriv round head machine screw are used to attach the transmission tunnel cover to the transmission tunnel. The original screws are not Phillips head screws, although commonly mistaken for such. Be warned that if you use a Phillips head screwdriver, you will chew the heads up. If this mistake has already been made, replacements can be found at these firms: McMaster-Carr at: http://www.mcmaster.com/ , MSC at: http://www.mscdirect.com/ , or Metric Multistandard Components Corp at: http://www.metricmcc.com . Crawl back under the car, remind yourself of how much fun you are having, and remove the bolts that secure the rear transmission mount to the underside of the car. Now, crawl back out from under the car and whistle a happy tune as you proceed to remove both the radiator and the radiator diaphragm in order to give more room in which to maneuver the engine/transmission package and decrease the angle to which the engine/transmission package must be tilted, making removal much easier. This will also avoid damaging the radiator. Raising the rear axle of the car up about 8 to 12 inches on jackstands will allow the tail end of the transmission to drop down lower and give you a better relative angle. Beg, borrow, or buy an Oberg Tilt Lift load leveler mechanism so that you can alter the angle of the engine in order to allow maximum maneuverability as you lift it in cramped quarters and make the extraction much, much easier. You might feel that it is an unnecessary luxury, but it is worth every cent not to scratch up your paint or dent and/or crease the sheetmetal inside the engine compartment. This is why professional shops always have a load leveler for removing engines!

Use the rocker arm studs as lift points only if you are certain that they are Original Equipment items as some of the replacement studs nowadays are of dubious quality. Most failures will occur as a load is applied at an angle to an attachment point, so make those attachments strong, or, better yet, make them nonexistent by using a sling. Although some use a length of chain enclosed in a bicycle inner tube, I prefer to lift the engine with a strap of heavy nylon webbing. Not only is it strong and easy to undo knots from, but its greater surface area in contact with the block makes slippage less likely to occur and it is less likely to damage paint. Pass the strap between the engine and its backplate, cross it over above the rocker cover and loop it under the water pump, and then tie the ends off with a simple square knot above the engine. With the hook placed behind the knot, it will not slip backwards, plus the square knot is self-tightening and will not slip either. Always remember the cardinal rule to never, ever, put any part of your body anywhere below a suspended motor.

When you prepare to reinstall the engine, leave it tilted with the gearbox at a lower level in order to make it easier for your fingers to install the bolts of the front mounts. Do not make the classic Beginner’s Mistake of tightening down the front motor mounts and then trying to install the rear crossmember mount onto the end of the transmission package. Instead, before attempting to install the engine, attach the rear crossmember mount onto the transmission and leave its mounting bolts loose. It is much easier to get the transmission bolts started by hand, and then tighten the front motor mounts before tightening the rear transmission mount with the motor hanging on the hoist. Tighten the rear transmission mount bolts using a half-height swiveling socket, with a four or five-inch extension. With this tool, you can get to those rear bolts a lot easier.

When new front motor mounts and their brackets are installed, inspection usually reveals that the assembly is already bending toward the block. That means it is prestressed in compression, and as the engine rocks the stress cycles from compression to tension and back again, ultimately leading to fatigue failure. This condition is at its most severe on the Left Hand bracket, since that side of the engine lifts under acceleration, whereas the Right Hand bracket tends to remain in compression, except during hard engine braking. If you fit a spacer of approximately 1/8” (.125”) thickness between the bracket and the block at the large bolt, you will prestress the bracket in such a way as to prevent the cycling through zero, which reduces or eliminates fatigue failure. This compressive preload also keeps the rubber mount plates parallel, greatly increasing the life of the mount itself. If the mounts are correctly shimmed then the force on the rubber mounts will be at right angles and they should not sag, even over a long period of time. The need for these shims is determined by the dimension across the mountings in the chassis, which varies due to build tolerances. You can determine if they are needed by examining the mounting rubbers - the sides should be at 90º to the ends when under the weight of the engine. If they slope towards the engine at the top, then you need to add shims. If they slope away from the engine, then you need to remove shims.

Determining if you need to shim the motor mounts is a simple matter because the rubber blocks deform if the engine is too low - the top and bottom faces will not be at right angles to the plate. Simply add shims equally to both sides until both of the rubber blocks sit square. If there are clearance problems with the bellhousing or the exhaust manifold/steering column, simply changing a shim from one side to the other will move the engine in the opposite lateral direction while leaving the engine at nominally the same height.

At first appearances, installation of the rubber bushings into the transmission mount seems a formidable task to many. The smaller of the bushing’s two flanges is 1 ¼” in diameter and about ¼” thick, while the hole through which it must pass is only about ¾” in diameter. It appears to be a job that requires a man with at least three hands. However, installation of the rubber bushings into the transmission mount is not as difficult as it seems. The hole through which it must pass is only about ¾” in diameter. First, a lubricant will make the procedure easier and protect the rubber from chafing. Secure the yoke in a vise. Tie off one end of a thin cord, in the direction of one end of the yoke. Loop the cord and pull it up through the yoke hole. Pass the loop around the bushing, and then place the edge of the bushing flange into the yoke hole. As you do this, it helps to use your free hand in order to oblongate the bushing. Initially, pull the cords almost parallel to the bushing groove. As more of the flange begins to enter the hole, change your direction of pull downward, until eventually you are pulling straight down. In this manner, you will gradually peel the circumference of the flange through the hole. Tying off the cord leaves one hand free to manipulate the bushing, and also to change the pull angle of the cords. Obviously, the wiser you are at choosing your tie-down point, the better this procedure will work.
Steve S.

This link, if it works, shows several photos of engine removal. YOu will need to use the manual for additional instructions.
http://felixwong.com/photo-album/?category=9051
You can remove the engine without removing the hood, it needs to be lifted as high as possible and tied up so it will not fall. You will need a floor jack and a hoist unless you are planning to use a come-a-long as T Lea did. Removal is easier for me the the rear wheels jacked up about a foot and supported on jack stands. Thake photos and notes of the process as you work so you will remember how to put it together.

Clifton
Clifton Gordon

OK, Steve beat me, and provides a much more detailed instruction.

Clifton

Clifton Gordon

Wow Steve,

Great write up. I'm saving it.

With regard to a sling, I've also used a 1/4 inch vinyl covered cable, clamped with u-clamps. A picture lifting an XPAG is attached.

dave


Dave Braun

make yourself a lifting bar like the one in the picture they hold the engine at the right angle and you can put it in on your own, also when you have the engine on the bench without the box if you turn it round it holds the engine level, you can make these for A B & C series engines, and they work very well on all of them.


andy tilney

I've done it twice in the past 2 years - the last time, I picked up a tilting mechanism like Steve describes for $30 at KMS tools in Vancouver - turn a handle and the engine and gearbox tip so that you can clear the grill platform. Its very good for light duty use, but may wear if you do this regularly. Mine looks sortof like the thing in Andy's photo, but with a handle at the front end to tilt the engine. I was able to remove and install the engine solo that way. I attached chain to the rear most exhaust manifold bolt and to the front alternator bracket-to-engine bolt. A piece of angle iron attached to the valve cover mounting bolts is said to work well also, but some apparently have had problems attaching directly to the valve cover bolts without angle iron.
Erick Vesterback

steve just read your comprehensive list on engine removal,i think your way of removing the oil cooler is perhaps not the best,before you tell me you have always done it like that and have never had any problems,i would like to show you another way,which i have found to be quite good, and does not involve removing the pipes from the oil cooler, undo the 4 bolts holding the oil cooler undo the oil pipes on the engine,undo the bolts holding the rad diaphram then lift out the oil cooler, rad compleat with diaphram and oil cooler pipes together,this way you dont have to undo the oil pipes on the oil cooler which are more often than not so tight to undo you can damage the oil cooler, i would also disconect the earth on the battery.before i started, removing the fan is a good idea if you are using a mobile crane, as on some types of crane it can catch on the crane
andy tilney

Andy-
By George, I think you've got something there!
Steve S.

Thanks to everyone for your response. There is nothing like experience to fill in the gaps left by the manuals.

Ted
T Litty

Having done this numerous times, I'm not sure why the friend needs to be on-hand. Perhaps safety could be cited as the reason, but that is negated by the beer. Although, I will accept that three guys drinking two beers each is much safer than one guy drinking all six! Maybe that's the point. Or better yet, have the buddy come around, find a comfortable chair, and drink ALL the beer while you take the engine out. He can make sure that you don't get any until the engine/transmission are out and securely at rest on the floor, while providing a morale-lifting cheering section.

Maybe it goes a bit faster if one guy disconnects the carbs/manifolds while the other removes the radiator, etc. Outside of that, it all seems like a one-man job to me. Depending on what is about to happen to the engine, removing head, makes the job easier.

I'm not sure I would rely on a come-along to lift an engine out. One other "don't", if the head is still on... Do not even THINK about using the smog pump bracket as a lifting point. That heavy cast-iron bracket looks so sturdy, but I have a broken one here that would suggest otherwise. Fortunately, the engine only fell about two inches - on to the motor mounts as I was re-installing it. And no human tissue was in between the engine and its landing points. I was under the car at the time. I will say that the break had its aerobic effect! Why spend two hours on an exercise bike when less than one second under a falling engine will produce the same effect!

FWIW,
Allen


Allen Bachelder

Everyone on here seems to be pulling the box as well. I would disagree. I would never pull the box unles I am going to work on it. I have done it both ways and pulling both has always caused me more problems than pulling just the engine. You won't damage the first motion shaft as you support the underside of the box with a jack. Most garages I have come accross only pull the engine as it is quicker and easier. Taking care when aligning the clutch (if you need to remove it) is the only possible problem area, but this can be a problem if you split the engine from the box out of the car anyway!

It is always one of these area where people swear by whichever method they have used successfully. Normally on this board the split is 50/50 or so. Up to you!!

Cheers
Iain

PS I have pulled the engine without dropping the oil by leaving the oil cooler connected and having someone lift the rad and diaphragm as I am lifting the engine. I had just changed the oil and had to unexpectedly pull the enigne again and didn't want to be throwing away £20 ($40) of fresh oil!! Worked just fine, but unless you really want to keep the oil Andy's metod is what I do with the cooler.
I D Cameron

everyone has covered it pretty well....my two cents, can stress enough on a tilt device. I can pull mine own my own like this. jack the rear of the car as high as possible...then you dont have to tilt as much.
bryan

The old issue of pulling engine with/without the tranny is largely a matter of skill. Most of us pull them as a unit because Haynes, et al, tell us to do it that way. But I have an old friend who was an MG dealer service manager for over 20 years, and who routinely pulled engines without gearboxes. That does not necessarily mean I should try it. He was able to routinely pull tranny's without the engine too. In a high-volume shop where time = a lot more money than it does for us shade-tree guys, methods are discovered to save time by using greater skill.

And now - pardon me - I have to go out and pull the engine/transmission from my C/GT - just to get at the transmission, of course! I haven't pulled a C engine before. Wish me luck!

FWIW,
Allen
Allen Bachelder

ian you can take these engines,/engine & boxes out with the oil coolers off and with out draining the oil but i would plug the oil pipe union on the oil fiter and if i want to put a clutch in i would only take out the engine and would not drain the oil,but i would remove the oil cooler compleatly one last point on this subject most people keep saying how much better it is to jack up the back of the car when you take out the engine and box together but it is much better to jack up the whole car as high as you can but still being able to reach into the engine bay that way you can get at anything you need to underneath at the front, also it saves time jacking up & letting down jacking up the back etc and its right for when you put it back in
andy tilney

Allen-
Lease a crane!
Steve S.

Steve gets the typing award for this month. Good write-up.
Bruce-C

But that last three-word post might be Steve's best advice yet. The instructions I was about to follow said to put the car up on jack stands, secure the engine with chains from above, remove the jack stands and shake the car until it comes loose and falls off the engine. 8^)

Today, I removed the radiator, fan, alternator, and carburettors while disconnecting hoses and electrical connections normally under the bonnet (which is currently at Eclectic Motorworks awaiting a bit of help). Manifolds still have to come off, exhaust disconnected, and wiring disconnected from the transmission, but gear lever is out and driveshaft flange is disconnected. It looks like a couple more hours work and I'll no longer be able to postpone the inevitable. How they managed to make this six-cylinder car ever so much more complicated than our beloved four-bangers is beyond me. Working on a C engine in a slightly modified"B" engine bay is as cramped as working on a 1275 in a Midget. So far, my favorite task: removing the bottom nuts on the HS6 carb flanges. About 13 band-aids, a transfusion, and the job was done.

And whoever designed the C carb linkage was either a genius or an idiot.

FWIW

Allen

PS: T. Litty - Pardon my digression to MGCs. ' Didn't mean to steal your thread! The MGB power unit may be bigger and heavier than the Midget you've pulled before, but I'm thinking you'll find it easier because the B engine bay is so generous relative to the stuff that's in it. Keep us posted on your progress.
Allen Bachelder

Andy made a good point about getting the whole car up off the ground. That is true so you can reach everything, but with the rear higher than the front it just seems to come out so much easier. But...talking about easier....I remove everything..radiator, oil cooler....hood.............one last note.......from my experience last weekend.....*cough* dont forget to remove your shifter....causes a nasty snag in things!
Bryan

LOL, Bryan, I know what you mean.... When I removed the engine from my '76 B last summer, I HAD removed the shifter but stuck it back in on removal day to put the car in neutral so I could roll it back a bit, then put it back in gear. Hook up the straps, jack up the rear, start pulling the engine and - hey, what is it snagged on? Scratch head for a couple of minutes, swear a bit.... Oh doh, the shifter!

Dan D


Dan DiBiase

Some manuals say to take off the hood. You do not have to. Remove the hood stay and tie the hood back. The hoist has enough clearance

Brian
r. LEARY

Well... My C engine came out this afternoon. It's now resting on the floor. What a job!

Cheers,
Allen


Allen Bachelder

This thread was discussed between 05/01/2008 and 11/01/2008

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