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MG MGB Technical - Spare Fuel Pump Does Not Work

I had a spare fuel pump in the truck for about 3 years(an SU). Last week the one in the car went out and I put the spare in. The car ran for about 5 minutes and the engine stopped again.

Question: did the spare somehow go "bad" in the truck over the past 3 years? Are there plastic or rubber parts that dry out? Can they be reconstituted by just letting fuel sit in the pump for a while.
(after a week it still will not start).

Anything I can do to the one I have or sould I just by an newer one?

Thanks
Hank

Corrosion on the points, I had the same problem.
Jake

Hank. Check out my website at www.custompistols.com/ and go to the MG section, then the articles. David DuBois wrote an article on the SU fuel pump and can be contacted through that article. He will have the best information available based on 30+ years of experience in rebuilding the pumps.

I have significantly less experience, but I, too, have had new fuel pumps fail in less than one month's service. In my case, the plastic cap seemed to have been cracked, internally, and the cracks extended to the outside of the cap when placed in service. This was on a pump which had been shipped from the dealer, then sat in my parts locker for several years before being installed. In the future, when I carry a spare pump on trips, I will be using one Dave has rebuilt and will make sure it is well padded before it goes into the trunk.

I would be interested in what you may find when you remove the fuel pump. If you can determine the cause of the failure, please post it so that we may all learn from your experience. Thanks, Les
Les Bengtson

Hank - First thing to try is to remove the end cover and use some 400 grit sandpaper to clean the contacts on the points. The contacts used on the points are a tungstan alloy and will develop a film over time that acts as an insulator. If this doesn't get the pump going, then send it to me and I will convert it to solid state for you so you no longer have to worry about points filming over.

Hank and Les - I would like to encourage both of you to pick up one of the little, square, run all the time, make a lot of noise, Facet pumps at NAPA (part number 610-1051) and instal it permenantly as a back up pump. Just plumb it in series with the original SU pump, and route power to both pumps through a single pole, double throw switch. If the primary pump fails, a flip of the switch then gets you home.

I too carried a spare pump with us until I had the following experience:
Let me make the NAPA alternative look a bit more attractive. Consider the following scenario: You are traveling north on I5 and are just north of the Weed airport using airport transfers tonbridge (sounds remote, doesn't it? - it is). Weed is just about 50 miles south of the Oregon, California boarder. The temperature outside is low to mid 40s and there is a 45 - 50 mph wind blowing (as always). The *&@# pump quits!!! Oh well, there is a spare in the trunk, under the spare tire. Pull off on the shoulder as far as you can go without driving in the dirt, get out, unpack the trunk, remove the spare tire and get the spare pump. Jack the passenger side of the car up with the OEM jack, remove the right rear wheel and place it under the car in hopes that if the jack slips, the tire will keep the car from making you too flat as you work under the edge of the car in the blowing wind to remove the original pump, all the while hoping that some idiot doesn't come over on the shoulder and hit the car with you under it. Of course, you have not installed the shut off valve yet, so with the first fitting removed, you have gas running off your elbow as you watch the all important fiber washer drop to the ground and roll out of sight (the wife later finds it about a hundred yards in front of the car where the wind had finally deposited it). The spare pump is finally installed and all hooked up and your arm that was getting the bath in gas feels like someone lit the gas and you still have to replace the road wheel, and the spare tire and re-pack the trunk. You are finally back under way in about an hour and a half, feeling very fortunate that it wasn't raining (or worse, snowing as the altitude there is somewhere around 4000 ft.). Sound convincing? - Been there, done that - permanently installed the NAPA pump and the shut off valve shortly after getting home - NOT going to do that again!!!! Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Another possibility for a spare in line or in trunk pump is Walbro. Much like the Facet, but round and a LOT quieter. They come in low pressure suitable for imports. Got mine from JCW, but they must be available from other parts sources - Walbro is a major manufacturer of OEM pumps for US cars. Never had one quit, a couple of Facets did.
FRM
FR Millmore

Fletcher - I've had the Facet pumps fail too. Do you know if the Walbro pumps are pointless design? That was why I chose the Facet as a back up. If a pump has points to run it, if it is left on the shelf long enough, the points are going to be filmed over. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

I have used a round pump from Advance Auto for over five years. I believe it is made by Airtex. Pressure range is 2 1/2 to 4 1/2 psi. The price has gone up about $15.00 since I purchased mine. I used some rubber grommets for mounting and it seems quiet to me.
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?mfrcode=MST&mfrpartnumber=E8016S&sourcepage=SEARCHRESULTS

Barney Galord's Fuel pumps 201 has a list of fuel pumps including the Airtex pumps.
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/fuel/fp201.htm


Clifton
Clifton Gordon

Dave,
The Walbro is pointless (like much of what we do), and it is constructed (and looks like) a high pressure fuel filter with threaded end fittings and two wires. It is supplied with a screw-on filter for the inlet. Much better sealed than the Facet, if it needs to be under the car. My feeling is that the Facets fail through water/salt ingress (or backwards electrical hookup!). The Walbro I have here has a sticker on it E8016S, which may be the part#.
Tried Clifton's link, didn't work but led to PartsAmerica main, and they wanted me to sign up, etc, etc. But now I look at the link and see it has the same E8016S number in it - so Dat Da One. Now I look at Clifton's other link to Barney - Yep! The exact critter. Pitchers is easier than words.
FRM
FR Millmore

Dave,
We had that situation too, only it was on I-15 between Provo and Orem, UT. My wife was driving the BGT, I was at work. She had our son in his carseat, had to call to get a ride home. I ended up going out there in the evening, found a dead battery (hazards left on) and a dead fuel pump along with some cop's paint markings on the back window.
So I had to lay under the car, didn't jack it up, hoped to not get hit by some idiot utard driver on a cellphone, and filed the points until it worked. Sort of. I was able to go half a mile, then the pump would stop again. Light tapping got it going everytime. I had to stop half a dozen times, but got home alright. New points and adjustment fixed the problems.
Jake

Dear David,

I went to NAPA to replace my pump and found the only pump they had in stock was a 4 to 7 psi unit with 5/16 hose. Can this be be used in my MG?

Thanks,

Bayard
Bayard

Bayard - That is a bit hig on the pressure for the MGBs. I asked for a 1.5 - 4 psi pump part number 610-1051. If they don't have on on hand, they should be able to order one for you. The other alternative is to use the Walbro pump that Fletcher Millmore quotes above. I think, however that Facet may have overcome the problem of ingesting water and salt fro road spray recently. The newest Facet pumps that I have seen are totally encapsulated in a epoxy type casing. Good luck - Dave
David DuBois

This is going to sound really horrible, but the woman I found a '70 MGB for was broken down on the freeway this morning. Besides what apppears to be a poorly designed set of spark wires, and a starter cable nut that doesn't seem to tighten, I ascertained that the fuel pump had quit (I'm brillliant sometimes, the clear fuel filter canister on the fender by the carbs was empty, and when I took the covers off the bowls, and added gas, the engine started right up). I'm a TD guy, not a B guy, and after a couple of wacks with a hammer I figured it was tow or go home.

Instead, I took a water bottle and removed the pull up spout and cut out the nozzle. I attached the hose to the nozzle and laid the bottle on the carbs, taping it in place. I cut a small vent hole in the bottle, and started the way home, gravity feeding the bowls. Every four miles I would run out of gas, fill another water bottle with gas and used the pull up spout to fill the horizontal bottle with fuel. A piece of tape kept sloshing to a minimum. I had visions of a fire ball, but all in all, we kept it pretty clean and clear.

The fuel pump would 'spit' a bit of fuel out of the open end of hose once in a while. I probably should have disconnected the ground.

I guess removing the fuel pump is in order (two 7/16 nuts on a funny bracket?) and perhaps benching the unit to see if cleaning the contact points does the job.

Open to advice (besides the obvious "are you nuts driving around like that?"... I think it was nuts.)

warm regards,
dave
D. A. Braun

Dave - Send my your e-mail address and I'll send you a fuel delivery troubleshooting guide. Cheers -Dave
PS - ingenious work around.
David DuBois

Almost as fun running the car on gasoline dumped directly into the bowls to drive it off of a semi. If this SU fuel pump talk keeps up, I'll buy a rotary hand-crank pump to install in the passenger footwell. Or perhaps I'll remove the blanking plate on the block and install a mechanical pump from a Nash Metro!

Adam
Adam Birnbaum

Adam, I enjoyed your rotary hand-crank pump idea...

dave
D. A. Braun

This thread was discussed between 24/07/2005 and 03/08/2005

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