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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MGB Technical - Shock conversion kits

Anyone have advise for converting front and rear levers to a gas shock kit? I have a 71 MGB.
Jay

Jay,
I have replaced the rear stock shocks on my '67 GT with the adjustable Spax shocks. I plan to convert the front to Spax in the near future. At the same time that I replaced the shocks I also installed composite mono-leaf springs. I am pleased with the shocks and intallation was very easy. You should have no trouble, especially if you are not replacing the springs. However if you are using your car as a daily or occasional driver I would suggest going with a quality rebuilt hydraulic shock and maybe consider ones with uprated valves, if you want firmer handling. Not only are they less expensive to purchase, but when in good condition the stock shocks do their job quite well.

In addition to being a daily driver, I compete in local autocross events which is why I chose the slightly exotic upgrades to my suspension. The composite springs oftered a higher spring rate and lower unsprung weight which were the selling points for me. The Spax are firm enough that they complement the spings quite well. As they adjustable they can be dialed into just the right amount to enjoy firmer handling for eveyday driving, yet be soft enough that they don't bounce you around the road. For autocross and open track days where road surfaces are much smoother, I can crank the shocks rates up much higher to provide better road holding caracteristics. If you still have stock steel springs you will probably have the shocks on the lowest setting as with my springs they are only adjusted the first few clicks out of 14 for every day driving.

Of course if you are planning on going with some of the less expensive standard tube shocks, then all of this info is worthless and just taking up space. Oh well, more for the archives.


-Jared
Jared Snider

<<then all of this info is worthless and just taking up space.>>

I have to disagree with you there Jared. I found it very informative, and you also pointed out (correctly) that for a street driven car it would be an unnecessary modification and expense. Cheers!
Paul K

I did the Spax on the front and back and think both were a waste of alot of money. Though with a composite spring in the rear, there may be an improvement. I don't know. I wouldn't recommend that either, though. In fact I wouldn't recommend most of the accessories/improvements that Moss or the others sell because I think they all are a waste of money on 99.99% of the cars. This includes K&N filters, cross drilled brakes, "performance" exhaust, poly bushes --on and on. Even the leather seats and wood dash kits I would avoid.
Ask yourself why you want these things and why you need these things before you spend the fortunes they want you to. I suppose I sound like Clausager's my deity.
I do like the minilite style wheels, though, but thats about it ;)
Scott

Thank you Jared, Paul and Scott for your input. Propermg has the conversion kit on sale and wondering if this is the one you used Jared? The springs seem good but with a passenger and a bumpy road the car bottoms out. Winter project and another excuse to buy more tools!
Jay
Jay

My advice for a daily driven MGB? Don't! Having done it myself, the best option IMHO is to simply remove your existing levers, package them up and send them to Worldwide for a proper rebuild, then you'll have a better-than-new set of shocks and you won't have to worry about them for years/decades. Cost for each shock, with exchange is about $60 USD if memory serves me correctly. Old worn shocks on a car aren't indicative of the way new ones should feel. I went with tube shocks all-around, and regretted the move. I've since gone back to the levers on the front, with Monroe Sensi-Trac 5877ST's on the rear. The only reason I haven't purchased the Worldwide rears was that I didn't have an exchange core and I was running short of cash. There are better places to spend your money.
SteveO

Interesting comments Scott, which I partially agree with.

My current thoughts are, For road and track use lever dampers perhaps uprated at front, Koni's work well on rear but Spax are too hard. If money is available consider Hoyle/NG Front end available from Doug Jackson balanced with composites at rear assuming IRS rear end is way over budget, and Polybush/Superflex.

K&N should make an improvement as will EBC Greenstuff pads.

Paul
Paul

If you go with composite springs: the ride is smooooth but you may well find them to be too soft for spirited driving ... the car's altogether too bouncy and too prone to bottoming out in minor road dips, especially if it's a GT. I think this is because the composites' spring rate is about 25#/in. less than the stock steel leafs. Doug now sells tube shocks with weak (25#/in.) "helper" coilover springs fixed to their outsides. Has anyone tried 'em, and if so whaddaya think? I reckon this may be a winning solution, albeit costly.
Terrence

Terrence,

Good point, the composites are raising more problems than solving, as once sorted at great expensive, may unbalance front requiring the Hoyle solution up front, which is more expense, and the front Hoyle only may be a better choice with standard rear.

If you have the budget go for Hoyle front and rear, if not stick to more standard rear set up and uprate front dampers to get to first base with superflex all round.

Paul
Paul

What do you mean road & track? Do you mean race car and daily driver? That's a big difference.
Ask yourself; what is the problem? One doesn't like the way his 'b handles? One wants to spend money on a shiny new thing he saw advertised? One wants to race his 'b? One doesn't want a 'b because it's too slow and doesn't handle like an MGF or Miata? One has spare cash? I beg one to think about why he keeps his hard earned cash --and why he keeps his MGB in the face of all its 40-year old problems.
If he wants the handling and appearance of a new car, he can put the money he wants to spend on shiny new things for his MGB toward buying a new car.
Why do people get plastic surgery? Play with the hand you've been dealt. Patience people, patience.
!!BUT!!, it's yer munney, 'n' yous takes yer chances.
Scott

Whoa scott - easy buddy!!

Theres nothing wrong with playing the game of chance in order to improve your dealt hand!!! The B might not be perfect but people still love em, if by altering a few bits it makes them a bit more driveable on a daily basis thats a good thing - isnt it??

JAY - FYI i have konis (rear) and new but standard rear springs on the BGT and they work fine, infact i sometimes wonder if a little too soft for really spirited twisties and might inquire about firming them up a bit , but only slightly as most UK road surfaces would not match a B on really firm rear setting i dont think.

I did find the koni's drove bettter than spax which are too hard and therefore am in agreement with Paul. Don't find much wrong with the standard front set up but never tried anything different there so you get used to what you got.

Regards ~PHIL
Phil

A few years ago I converted to rears to "normal" shocks and couldn't be happier. I used Monro shocks and a few hardware store parts. The total cost was about $35 for the pair. The plans for doing this conversion are on the web.
...Art
art

Art - Paul
Thanks for the advise... I am on my 3rd tank of gas after 18 months of welding, painting, etc. Thanks for the help and this is networking with you all.
Jay

Been there, done that, and now back to OE system. Of course, it is a daily driver, driven on the highway, and I prefer the somewhat softer, less skitish ride and handling of the OE setup. Maybe because I am an Old Fart too. ;-)
Bob Muenchausen

Ok, I waited long enough. I think that everybody who wanted to sound off about this subject has had their chance, so back to me now. I'll warn you, this is long so don't go on if you don't want to.

Terrence,
You mention that the composite springs are softer than stock steel springs, I find this interesting. Doug used to offer two different spring rates but he no longer does so. It is my understanding that the when the composite springs are manufactured there may be a +OR- 15% difference in the quoted spring rate. This really isn't a problem as Doug packages the springs so the are a matched pair. Why is this important? Doug notes that when the lesser rated springs were manufactured and ended up with a lower rate than intended, the result was a spring that was too soft for his customers needs. this is why he now only offers the higher rated spring, to ensure it is not too soft.

I don't think the springs are too soft for my GT. I'm sure they are not as stiff as a true race spring, but I don't want that for a mainly road going car. They are firmer than the steel springs they replaced and I don't get bounced around. Although as I've said before, the springs were sagged and worn out before replacement so I don't know if new steel srings would have been better. I guess I bet my money the composites would be better. I'm not trying to convince anybody else to buy them, I'm just saying I'm very pleased. I will say that that I honestly don't know how the composite spring rates compare with with steel spring rates. I've never seen rate numbers compared. If my composites ever fail me I'll try a set of steel ones just to see for myself, but until then I'm happy. Your mention of the helper spring is the first mention I've heard of it. They don't seem to be listed of his website, but I suppose that could change. I assume we are both speaking of Doug Jackson here.


Scott,
You bring up some good points about aftermarket items but I feel you're a little negative overall. True, there are plenty of items that don't begin to match the quality of efectiveness of OE parts. Take for example exhaust systems, there are many that don't fit well or do anything other than make more noise and cost more than the original setup. Cheap tube shock conversion kits that use a shock which was designed for a vehical of different weight come to mind too. Cross drilled brakes too are just aboute worthless unless you drive in very wet conditions as few find fault with standard disks.

Anyway, there are also a lot of worthwhile parts that can improve the car to make it handle better of go faster. All this in the same spirit that drove the competitions department. I don't have a problem with somebody modifying their car to suit there taste or with leaving it bone stock either. MG always wanted to make a higher end car with something more than a tractor motor and pre-war suspension. Remember the twin cam MGA with disks at the rear too? Or maybe an IRS setup that the factory experimented with during MGB prototype testing, at least coil springs and a panhard rod would have been nice. All these things and so much more like them were canceled because of bean counters. Why can't we go on and modify our cars to be what the engineers may have been wanting to build all along.

I love my MG and I think it's a great car, even in stock form. Considering the time in which it was built and the old component designs they used, I think it's a miracle that they came up with a car that did so well and was produced for so long. When tooling up for production, BMC thought they'd get 5 years out of the car. This ment they wanted a return in their investment very quickly. If they would have known how long the B would really last, they might have splurged on a few more items for production.


One last note, this is not a personal attack by any means, but more of a personality observation. Why is it that Scott seems to dissaprove with any modifications to our MGBs but seems to be in agreement with those who have suggested we need a new forum. Whatever happened to "Play with the hand you've been dealt?" in regard to our forum. That is unless he wants to go off and buy into a diffent forum. Just seems odd that he wants to keep with the old MGB but wants a new forum too. Scott, maybe I'm reading your intentions wrong but it seems like you have two different perspectives working here.

Ok, I've writen WAY too much and I'm sure I've offended somebody somehow, but this is getting posted anyway. I guess this thread makes up for me being a "lurker" most of the time.

-Jared
Jared Snider

Jared, you're an astute observer and a good man. I have been a lurker and poster on this forum since its inception. Ok, not quite the inception, but since 1996. Yes, I have moved since my first post, but I think it's irrelevant where I posted my earlier posts from. I really am not the one who has the patience to answer questions like, "my car won't start," or "what size tires can I use on my car." That's why I don't post twice daily, or even twice monthly. I'll leave those posts to those gracious people like Bob M. and others.

Now, to defend my position of avoiding add-on "improvements" to the car. Look, it's your money, as I said, and if you would like to spend the $$ or ££ on coil over conversions or IRS suspensions, the suppliers would LOVE you! You would be helping them pay their mortgages! How else would they make money? If someone wants a V8 that LOOKS factory, but with a 3.5l V8 with RV8 front suspension and T-5 5-speed with a 3.07 Ford rear end (shortened), he can be my guest. And my financial planner. This is what the parts suppliers love. If you want a Miata that looks like an MGB, it's your call. If you were just inspired by "Fast and the Furious," then buy a Honda. If you want an MGB, then keep it an MGB. Hey, if you want to do the Burgess head, with poly bushes, Hopkinson suspension and 4-caliper brakes with the 5.5 x 14 minilite reps, even better. But wait, wouldn't it be nice to have fun with those Honda drivers thinking about how they're gonna waste this little MG. Then, after they're passed by said 3.5l V8, you'll have the last laugh. It' your call and bank account. I love my car as it is. It's a late model with dual-SU conversion and road cam. I LOVE it as is. It's not ultra-original, but it's very much an MGB. It's certainly like no other car I see while on the infamous DC 'beltway,' except that maroon V8 MG DC club member's car I see (but with his top up!)

MG also wanted to make an affordable sports car. Where is it stated that "bean-counters" cancelled MGB improvements? Clausager? I don't remember. Why aren't MG's sold in the stupid US anymore? Because of the US auto unions? I mean why is the mini sold here now? Oh, I know. BMW has a factory or two here. Where is Alfa-Romeo? Where is Peugeot? Where is Lada? Just kidding! Really, they don't want to conform to the lame, union centric, federal regulations that the US requires for imports. The Alfa 156 is an absolutely gorgeous car. Why isn't it imported here? Where else is it not imported? Why can't we get the Lotus elise? What other country can't import the Elise? WHY? ARRRRGGGHHH!!

Ok, on to the next topic. I was not the one who started the new forum post. I (sort-of) asked if a new website would be welcomed. My idea wasn't. Please re-read my posts on that topic. Maybe I became defensive, or even competivive, after I read posts like, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," (which may apply to you inquiries about a shock-conversion)or, such oldies but goodies as, "This place is just fine," or "I don't want any bells and whistles."

Then I read about how the same person put a 'trusty' weber on his car, re-jetted with Grose-Jets he bought from Moss (and is having trouble with) and then advertises an obscure parts supplier or web site owned by someone who never even posts here.

Now, Mr. X recommends an OE set-up. Then he describes his "alternator conversion and heater valve improvement." Not only that, but he links the info. on the subject to his website. Then he claims a new site isn't welcome. See what I mean? I have nothing against Mr. X, and his heater valve IS an improvement, but if your going to call me a hippocrite, Jared, think deeper.

One more gripe, there are never complaints against advertisers on this site. E.g, LBCARco, B&G, etc. Always, there are conflicts with ProperMG and Brittek and Moss and others. Why?

Sincere apologies to those perhaps offended. You are a valuable asset to the MG community. I'm just a little negative. Ok, maybe I'm alot negative. I do still, and always will, own an MG.


Scott

I agree with Bob. I have owned my '73 since 1978.

Folks need to remember that ALL of these cars are OLD.

This means that an incredible number of them probably have a suspension that is in poor condition at best.

If yours is a daily driver and not used on the track, my recommendation is to go through your suspension with a fine tooth comb abd make sure it is absolutely up to the original spec. You will be surprised at the difference in ride and handling.

Mine is absolutely OE with the exception if 'heavy duty' valving in the shocks.

I even prefer the OE upper trunnion bushings over all of the 'special' material varieties that I have tried.

Get your suspension up to spec and you might be surprised. Doing this was the GREATEST SINGLE IMPROVEMENT I ever did to the suspension.

For Scott:

I am mostly in agreement with you. Do note, however, that the minilites AND the leather seating from Moss are right up there in the greatest single improvement list. I have lived all my life in the South where the summers are hot and long. Replacing the vinyl with leather provided a noticeably cooler driving environment (went from absolutely unbearable to simply uncomfortable) and the seat covers really are well made and look really nice as well.

I think long and hard before spending my money on potentially useless items. The three items I mention here make true improvements and not just cosmetic ones.
Richard Smith

Richard:
Next time try cloth inserts in the seat faces. I did that to my GT and so have many others on roadsters, and the comfort level in summer and winter goes from uncomfortable to very good to tolerable. I know that is not as original, but if you are driving the car, and not showing it, it can sure increase its pleasure to you. And you can even have a local upholsterer fit new inserts into vinyl seats as some of our club members have done, and he can pleat them as OE were done. Take a look at my site for a glimpse of how mine came to look like 68 seats in cloth. Cheers!
Bob Muenchausen

As a testament to richards post -

Although i stand by my konis on the rear as being a worth while improvement, the PO fitted them to suspension springs that were well past their sell by date (although i was less than aware of it at the time).

After a few thousand miles the rear of my car was acting like a landrover weaving about in a straight line and all sorts! I took it to a specialist suspecting just bush failure but they went through EVERYTHING.

In the end i came away with a repair bill close to four figures which comprised entirely new front and rear suspension (bar the Konis which were quite new and the front springs done at same time) all bushes and ALL brakes as these were just as bad perhaps worse!!

about 80% of what was changed was suspected to be original and those parts that weren't were over 10years old, the specialist went through every bit he changed and quite frankly i was amazed what i put up with for so long.

Whatever you fit to your car (you pays your money...) just make sure the base stuff is well up to the job, beacuse in good condition it may be all you require.

I have no doubt that the PO putting the koni's on with their harsher ride onto already worn suspension sped up its decline and my repair bill reflects that - but at least i know the stuff i have now is gonna last a wee bit!!

Tube shocks cant be all that bad as theres many people doing the conversion. Its all personal preference at the end of the day - i suggest Jay tries a few conversion types on a car as similar as his own and see what he likes best. Theres always gonna be conflicting opinions over which is best.

Have fun trying though mate!! ~PHIL
Phil

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH LEVER ARMS IN FACT THEY ARE BETTER THAN SPAX ETC. LEVERARMS WORK AT A 90 DEGREE ANGLE FROM THE SPRINGS WHEREAS SPAX WORK AT AN ANGLE OF ABOUT 75DEGREES. THE BEST THING TO PURCHASE IS BRAND NEW LEVER ARMS AND NOT RECONDITIONED ONES. ALSO I WOULD SUGEST RENEWING ALL YOUR RUBBER BUSHES AND UPRATEING THEM TO PLASTIC ONES.
peter bramble

Please be careful with plastic bushes. They can be noisy. They can be nice, too, if you like the vibrations and noise. Use graphite lube if you must.

Put your nicest bath towel on your seats before you sit on them. You won't stick to them be they leather or vinyl. If your wife protests, tell her to sit on the seats after returning to your car after an afternoon's shopping at Target with the hood left down. You also have a quick defroster/leak (leg)drier should you need one. Avoid the complex flower patterns and paisleys. Think about a tonneau cover, too.
Scott

Unless you intend to use your car on the race track stick with the standard lever arm shock absorbers they give a good compromise between ride and handling that really can not be bettered.

As Peter said buy new ones not reconditioned ones, at only £15 each just imagine how much work goes into reconditioning them! not a great deal with a profit margin, probably a quick coat of paint and a change of hydraulic oil.
Yes I know new ones are £100 each but they will last at least ten years...money well spent.
Howard

Scott,
Many good points brought up and I don't have time to respond to them all. I will say that I misread you and I think I now have a better idea of the type of person you are now that I see where you're coming from on some of the things you mentioned. I don't see you so much as being negative anymore, you just seem a little more practical. I never meant to call you a hippocrite nor did I say you actually started the idea of a new forum. In fact the more I think about it, the more your arguments fit together. You're not asking anybody to make any changes to this BBS, but if they want somthing different thay should start something new. Not unlike your thoughts about B's..if you want a miata, then get a miata, don't try to turn your B into one.

No, I have not been inspired by "The Fast and the Furious" In fact I view it as more of a comedy and a textbook case of what's wrong with many other people my age.

I agree with the view that MG wanted to produce affordable sports cars that many people could enjoy. I also believe that people would have paid more for their MGBs if the development cost dictated so. As far a "bean-counters" controling what went into production, you can read about it in "MGB" by David Knowles or in "MGB The Illustated History" by Jonathon Wood and Lionel Burrell. Some facts stated: in order to keep the base price of a new MGB down, the standard home market cars were not equiped with even a heater, overiders were optional too. These item eventually changed to being standard but both illustate the point I'm trying to make. If one reads through the chapters on the prototype models, it is interesting to see what the MGB could have been. Some ideas would have been for the better and some would have been worse too.

I think they got it down pretty good considering production cars are just about always a compromise between engineers' wants, government regulations and the corporation willingness to part with money for tooling costs. I wasn't blaming the accountants for killing the mga twin cam..their service record killed it even if the engineers did fix it's problems late in production. I was just trying to show that MG always wanted to make a better car in terms of performance. Remember the 6 cylinder overhead cam motors made before the war(I understand they had production problems too) or a reliable 2-litre B series motor, or how about an aluminium MGC block(two were made and later destoyed.) What about BL in the later years, single row timing chain, vinyl seats, plastic where metal once was, etc. Just little things that added up to overall cheapness as the years went by. They could have at least fitted the O-series engine to at keep the later Bs from becoming underpowered and slower. Maybe that would have been enough to keep the B going until some new MG sports car came into development and production. Oh, wait there were prototypes, the TR7 was almost a MG, thank God it wasn't. Maybe I'm glad BL didn't create a replacement for the MGB.

In it's class the MGB was the cheapest car at the 1962 motor show. At 949 pounds, it beat out the Sunbeam Alpine at 956 pounds and the TR4 went for 1030. Both other cars had lower fuel milage and only the TR4 could slightly better the acceleration of the MGB. Big Healys went for 1190 while an E-type went for 2177. Did people buy the MGB because it was the cheapest or because it was a better car? How many more or less could have been sold if it cost a little more? We'll never know as it's all in the past and history gives us a rather good vantage point for looking back on all this. I think I'll get off my little "would've, could've, should've" rampage and get back to enjoying what actually did come through the gates at Abingdon.



As far a shocks go...
I biggest reason I chose Spax shock is because they are adjustable. When I go autocrossing or up to the track I can set them right where I want them. If you don't need this option then by all means stick with the OE shocks unless you really want to do otherwise.

In the rebuilt vs. new shocks arena, I believe rebuilts are better. At least the ones from Worldwide if I'm not mistaken. A few months ago a gentleman from Worldwide posted the process they go through to rebuild a shock. It seemed to me that they incorperated several new step that make them superior to priginal shocks. Most of the improvements concern wear and leaking of fluid or keeping the fluid where it belongs. Info should be in the archives but I'm too lazy to look it up.


Once again, sorry for the rambling. I'm a little sick at the moment so please excuse poor spelling, grammer, etc. from this post. I just wanted to respond before it disappeared.


-Jared
Jared Snider

Worldwide URL is http://www.nosimport.com. A number of posters have raved about the quality of their rebuilds.
Paul K

Justin:
As you know, show and concept cars are as different from production cars as BMW's and, well, MGB's. Another conception involved a V-4 engine in the MGB. It was aborted. I too find it odd that the lowest price car in it's class in 1962 could be further cheapened with the elimination of leather, chrome, and metal only to be replaced with vinyl, plastic and more plastic. Did BMC/BL lose that many £'s on the cars?

I too have front and rear Spax, and find little difference in handling. I would never buy them again. A better improvement would be a larger anti roll-bar, but only on the rubber bumper cars, which I have. The ride quality is a little firmer, but I have the shocks set to one-click above their lowest setting. You seem to grasp my philosophy: to keep MGB's MGB's and resist the nonsensical, profit enhancing, tasteless products that keep the suppliers in business.

I know you didn't have time for corrections, but it's Healey, not Healy ;) BTW, I kind of enjoyed "The Fast and the Furious!!" (hehe)
Scott

rear shocks use 1986 Dodge Colt rear,s inexpensive and they match the weight of the MG.Les.
Les Biglands

Jay-
The issue of coverting to tube shocks is one of the oldest chestnuts on this BBS, right next to the old "Which Brake Fluid Is Best?" issue. Plainly put, unless you're going racing on a track or converting to composite rear leaf springs, there's no real practical advantage to installing them. There was a time when tubular dampers didn't exist and all auto manufacturers used lever arm dampers, but when tubular dampers came along they went over to them because they were cheaper. It was just a matter of keeping that old profit margin as wide as possible. If you want stiffer damping you can reshim the valves in the Armstrong lever arm dampers to fine-tune them to your needs. If you're not that picky, you can replace their damping fluid with a heavier weight fluid.
Steve S.

Ah, yes, Steve, the 'ol wide profit margin. That pretty much explains the change from leather to vinyl, plastics to replace chrome, etc.
Scott

Ok you guys, great input plus. Steve is right on with the ole profit margin theory but I will not be driving on the circuit but I do enjoy God's country bluffs and winding roads with the ability of accelerating out of the curves. The levers need improvement. Options are Spax, koni, dealership gas tubes or replacing the levers. The weather has been just great, I hate to spend the time in the garage.
Yesterday, a friend helped me get the after-market air conditioning working on my B. Works great, but after driving across town the car had an electrical failure that stalled the car. I mean it just died. Moved a few wires under the hood and it came to life. Got half a block. Same thing - dead. Turned the air off and it has been working great since. Will try it again today.

Jay

This thread was discussed between 27/07/2002 and 11/08/2002

MG MGB Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGB Technical BBS is active now.