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MG MGB Technical - MkI B Seat Belt Mounting Points

As some of you make be aware I'm about to buy a MkI, 1964 pull handle roadster (with overdrive) that currently does not have seat belts fitted. As far as I can tell as the car is pre 01/01/1965 it is not required to have seat belts fitted, nor even provide mounting points for them.

Searches on the 'net regarding UK seat belt legislation simply seem to turn up page after page of information on child seats or else minibuses.

Although it appears that belts are not required I think I'd like to fit them anyway. I haven't been able to source information on whether seat belt mounting points were fitted to '64 model year B's except that many British manufacturers fitted anchor points from 1960 onwards. Did BMC do this with the MkI?

The car appears to have anchor points fitted to the rear wheel arches (see picture) but I didn't think to look, when I test drove it, to see if it had anchor points on the tunnel (or floor) for the stalk, or the rear scuttle area for the upper mounting anchor point.

Does anyone know if they are present in the MkI or, if they aren't, what would be the most suitable type of belt that should be fitted?


Stephen Hubbard

I also have a '64 Mk 1 which did not have seat belts when I bought it. Mine was an early '64 having been manufactured in the first week of September 1963. The seat belt mount points are all there, and the holes are all threades. I sourced a period 3-point set from Moss, bought the appropriate bolts, and simply bolted them in. You will find this is probably the easiest job you will ever do!

Regards,

Don
don scott

Keep in mind that while technically the studs on the wheel arches will secure the shoulder belts, they are mounted below your shoulder which can result in serious injury should a collision occur. Mine are mounted that way because I can't bring myself to mount them up on the rear deck like later cars. It's a gamble either way... spinal injury or go head first into the windscreen with only lap belts. Hopefully neither will occur!
Steve Simmons

According to Clausager (which I only found AFTER I posted above) the B had seat belt points fitted as standard from the very start of production and were a dealer fit option from the beginning. Originally there were supplied by Britax but from the beginning of '64 were of the Kangol Magnet type static belt. The belt had grey webbing.

Steve, I take your point regarding the positioning of the upper body restraint anchor point. It is a gamble, no belts (which is legal in the UK for this car) and it's a trip through the windscreen, hitting the thin original steering wheel on the way, a lap belt which may stop you going through the 'screen but won't stop you hitting the wheel, or a 3 point which may result in other injuries. Hobsons choice huh?

Thanks for your input guys.
Steve Hubbard

Hi Stephen, When you get the car, check carefully around the seatbelt mountings in the wheelarch. This was the only rusty section of the wheel arch on my 62b,(rust had started around the welds). Seatbelts with the 2 bolt plate are not easily available, but can be made up. I decided to cut out this section of wheel arch and weld in reinforcing plates to bolt in brackets for standard belts such as available from MGOC.( this limited access to the suds holding the rear seat, but this is not an issue as it will probably never be used) I also found that there were holes drilled, but no captive nuts fitted to the transmission tunnel. Captive nuts were always fitted to the inner sills as these have no access from the back. Cheers, Dave
DM Gibson

Thanks Dave. Someone else mentioned that there are no captive nuts on the transmission tunnel, so you need someone to be under the car to fit them.

The car itself has just undergone a total ground up restoration and, considering what I'm paying for it, I hope there's no rust around there!

Apparently there was a U shaped shackle that attached to the rear arch anchor points, the belt was then attached to this. I haven't been able to find a picture of this shackle yet to verify what it looks like.

The only other problem I have at the moment is trying to find period looking belts. The originals were grey but all you seem to be able to get hold of now is either black or red.

Steve

'64 B
'78 BGT
'05 ZR
Steve Hubbard

"mount them up on the rear deck like later cars"

According to Clausager this location was only used to the end of the 76 model year after which it reverted to the rear arch again. Can't have been that hazardous, given all the other safety legislation that was rife at the time.
Paul Hunt 2

I read that as well Paul, I thought it odd that if it was unsafe why did they move it back?
Steve Hubbard

steve
you will post anywhere
the bracket you are on about for the two bolt fixing is if you imagine a T the top is where the belt loops through and the tail is where the two bolt holes are for fixing
quikfit do these as i asked at the nec and they do all the ends chromed all you need is the buckles with the bmc sticker on them
i think the took them off of the rear deck due to the hassles with fitting the tonneau cover?
ste
Ste Brown

"steve you will post anywhere" - Huh? :/

"I thought it odd that if it was unsafe why did they move it back?"

The issue with low shoulder belt mounting may not have been well-known or enforced back then. It is a known problem now to have a downward-pulling force in an impact. Serious neck and spinal injury can (not will) occur. How much of a risk is it? I don't really know, but it is worth consideration when planning to install belts in any vehicle that did not previously have them.

Many modern cars have adjustable shoulder belt mounting height to maximize safety. The proper placement, IIRC, is between the neck and top of the shoulder. One test I read regarding agricultural equipment rolling over stated that by moving the shoulder belt to a low mounting point, the restraint system became as effective as a "lap belt only" system in controlling head and upper torso movement. Moving the mounting point up to the proper level reduced head movement by 75% while introducing no additional strain on the neck or back.

Like I said, mine are mounted on the wheel well which is well below my shoulder, but it's worth keeping these things in mind.
Steve Simmons

""steve you will post anywhere" - Huh? :/"

I think he's talking to me :o)

I like to get as much info as I can Steve (Brown)! I see what you're talking about with the T bracket. Didn't they move it up to the top deck then had to modify the half tonneau cover? I think the belts had a quick release on them to for the cover, it was probably cheaper to move them back to the arch.

I don't remember seeing those at the NEC, but then I wasn't planning to buy a '64 roadster back in November!
Steve Hubbard

One would think that if all B's had three point mounts from 1962 then a 1969 C would also have a three point mount but I know for a fact that one US spec C did not, until I put them inAnd I'm more then a little sure that a few US B's that I redid in the early 70's did not have the wheel well mount. So once again what seems to be a fact turns out to be less then clear when it comes to B's Ric
RIC LLOYD

Certainly the belts had to be unclipped to raise and lower the hood and for the hood cover, but not the full cover. Said to be unobtainable for many years, I did see this clip on the New Forest run last year. The one's I'd seen before had a plastic button, this is all metal. If it is a repro it is a very good one, even more so if home-made.

My roadster came with *inertia reels* attached to the tonneau panel holes! Needless to say the MOT station wasn't very happy about the nuts only being finger-tight. I bought the brackets from the MGOC and mounted them on the inner wings.


Paul Hunt 2

Rick

I have a 69 C roadster that does not have the fender mounts for the shoulder belt, but it does have the mounting on the rear deck.

FWIW

Larry
Larry Hallanger

Larry on your C what's the mount like? An extra hole, or a clip/bracket? RIC no K
RIC LLOYD

Ric

An extra hole with a threaded section under it just like I found on the 75 shell I had. It was plugged with a plastic cap on the 75.

I am considering fabricating a bracket that would mount on the underside and adapt to a retractable belt assembly that would not interfere with a tonneau when not being worn. Another alternative, and I have not looked at this critically, would be a bracket that the belt fed through (sliding) down to the inertia reel on the fender mount. Not sure the geometry would work out on this arrangement.

HTH

Larry
Larry Hallanger

This thread was discussed between 14/01/2008 and 17/01/2008

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