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MG MGB Technical - A lot fewer posts these days?

It seems to me there are fewer posts on this BBS site these days? Are people moving to MGExperience? I prefer this forum due to less superfluous information. Your thoughts?
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

I don't know why, but there seems to have been a decline over the last few years.

Even the midget & Sprite section, which was always really busy, has got a lot quieter.

I know that the modified/K-series people seem to have migrated to Facebook. I'm not a Facebook user, so will be sticking around for some time.

The MGF/TF, MGC and V8 sections rarely get any posts, these days.
Dave O'Neill 2

Same as the MGs mailing list, rarely gets any posts these days. That seemed to drop when someone started a Yahoo list, but that doesn't get many either now. Did this list start to drop after the MGOC forum started? I seem to think the reduction started before is was aware of MGinExperience.

Superfluous and downright incorrect in so many cases. I occasionally get to read threads on there when Googling for something, but won't join.
paulh4

I like it here, specially the midget/sprite section but sometimes I feel as if lots of others 'could' participate but don't for some reason, specially in the general section where it doesn't 'have' to be a problem solving page or even mg related for that matter
Keep posting-I enjoy and respect your posts
willy
William Revit

Another reason possibly for fewer posts is that most questions have been answered in the archives!
I don't know what the sales figures of MGBs are like - have they declined? Are the younger generation not interested in them?
My other halfs son in law is only interested in 80s hot hatches!
AdrianS

I don't know about sales figures, but the DVLA licensing stats https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=mg+b show how many are 'on the road'.

Roadster numbers have been pretty-well flat for ten years, GTs came down quite sharply from 2001 to 2009, but then flattened and have even increased. 'GT V8s' which I assume includes conversions dipped but are virtually back up to where they were 17 years ago.

From my observations locally I think this represents a reduction in them being used as 'every day' cars by people 'with an interest', leaving a greater proportion run by 'enthusiasts'.
paulh4

Going back very many years I remember it was recorded that there were fewer classic MG owners but they owned more of the cars. Often, but no means all, theses owners hardly drove their classic(s) when they had fewer of them so with more in their ownership the use per car is a lot less. Less use means less need of (reasonable quality) parts and less need for information or just discussion.

How can the younger generation get to classics like Bs and Spridgets when the older generation (us) have so overpriced them and with many more concerned about the classic's value than its use.

I personally am really pleased to see that a few of the younger generation are into classics and a lot less snobby about what they consider a worthy classic than our generation.

As with a lot of things those further up the ladder hacking off the lower steps of the ladder can cause more problems than they realised.

At last this year I'm able to go to this show and was lucky to get a ticket as it's sold out, no doubt it will have the higher end of the examples but much more accessible to those who want to get into classic car ownership and probably a lot more use. -
https://www.hagertyinsurance.co.uk/articles-and-resources/events/festival-of-the-unexceptional

Nigel Atkins

Whilst looking for something else I happened across this video, I know the guy's not a youngster but it's the joy of owning and using a, dare I say it, classic, that will entice youngsters along with the lack of misplaced reverence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVZAF6fkSVE
Nigel Atkins

'Overpriced' is a relative term, a car is only worth what someone else will pay for it. If a car is for sale then either someone will pay that price, or no-one will and the owner keeps reducing the price until someone pays it, or the owner chooses to keep it. I'd love a Bugatti 35B, or a 59, or a 55, I'm not fussy ...
paulh4

Paul, I take your point I should have perhaps put (totally) overvalued (like many things in our world).

I remember many years ago at a show seeing a show/conours standard car of a certain model that wasn't valued so much at that time, as it is now, against a show/concours MGB, one was valued (in monetary terms) at £1k and MGB at £10k (at the time) from the very, very little I knew and still know no way was one 10 times better than the other, in fact (in my view) both were equal in their standard of restoration but I'd bet the other was actually in better mechanical condition and could actually be used on the road in the way it was designed.

I'm not picking on Bs, I've owned two and two Spridgets but many I see aren't that far removed from being the same as what's valued as old bangers other than the (IMO) overvalued sales prices. Many of the better finished cars I wouldn't want to drive, certainly not regularly, as they're more about show than go (which is the owners right).

Again not getting anyone or you Paul, the reasons you want a Bugatti 35B are the same reasons that it's valued in the same way as for the likes of Bs. Have you driven a 35B, would you accept a copy, a replica or even kit, are you just valuing the brand or label, we all do it.

The likes of, just as examples, Sterling Moss, Louise Hamilton are valued far in excess of the likes of nurses, doctors, police, fire, etc., etc.. it's the way of the world.

Nigel Atkins

There's a common description of what MG stands for these days - Mostly Grandads. I have two sons aged 35 and 40. Neither is remotely interested in MGBs, or any MG for that matter. The older is keen on his VW rear-engined camper. He would love a Type 2, but has to settle for a Type 25 wasserboxer at the moment. The younger son just wants an easy to use modern car that has air con and never breaks down.

Once my generation of post-war babies has gone, I have no idea what will happen to our classics.
Mike Howlett

Mike, I think you mean Mostly Greatgrandads. :)

Your 40 year old son's, younger to us but old to a 20 year old, generation's fashion is for VW campervans but I expect that will pass too with his generation (and possibly all the very expensive poor quality restorations coming apart).

The classic MG following is quite limited and self limiting, just about all white, male and old with the general(ised) attitude of that group, often exclusive rather than inclusive.

When I was around your son's age we were in the local MX-5 club and the club was thriving and very active, years later I was told even though the club still includes the newer and newest models the average age has increased greatly and a gentle 50mph drive on a sunny day to Cadbury World was considered an ideal club event, nothing wrong with it but a bit nursing home treat IMO.

MG owners, along with other comparable classics, seem to like nothing more than taking (often little used) polished examples to shows to present static museum looking pieces then getting seats out with their backs to the cars and any interested spectators, or facing the cars acting as security, and only welcoming their own sort who give the correct praise discouraging anyone let alone youngsters.
Nigel Atkins

When I first ventured into MG ownership, I was 18. My Midget was my daily transport.

I did go to the local MGOC clubs (x2) where most of the members were in their twenties and thirties.

These days, I think there is still the same difference in age between me and them. I also notice that some of the MG clubs have their road runs on weekdays, as they are all retired.
Dave O'Neill 2

We were in our early 30s before we could afford such an expensive vehicle as a classic (MG BGT), IIRC most members of the local MG club were within 5 years or so of our age, it included a few ladies but in all the local and even national events I attended I can only remember meeting one person, a man, that wasn't white.

The last local MG, big and open, event I went to in 2008 the average age of the participants that included other marques owners appeared to be well above our then 48 years and of the 100+ car entry I can recall few if any non-whites.

Nigel Atkins

When I got my first MG, a Midget, forty years ago it was a cheap old banger. The vendor wanted £150, but I swapped him my Triumph Daytona that needed finishing and he gave me £60. The car was a total wreck, handpainted light blue, but I loved it. Of course the thing wouldn't get through its next MoT. A pal gave me £80 and a DOT trials bike for it. These things were virtually valueless. I dreamed of XKs and DB4s, but they were and still are out of my range.

My current MGB is a ratty old thing that I've had over thirty years, but is used daily, has been hillclimbed/sprinted, carried building materials, taken stuff to the tip. Because I do relatively low miles and I can fix it when it goes wrong it makes a good alternative to an MX5 (perhaps the modern equivalent). The majority of Sixties onwards MGs are way too commonplace in my book to take to shows and only use on a Sunday. The more they're used the more reliable they get, and other than galloping corrosion, make a practical means of getting from A to B.

What I have noticed is that if you see an old vehicle being driven as a daily driver, it's usually (not including me!) being driven by somebody relatively young as a style statement. To have something that is wrapped up in cottonwool, with a ridiculous price tag, just puts off the sort of people we need to attract ie the young and others mentioned in the posts above. We need to show that these cars are usable and practical alternatives to the modern hatchback.
Peter Allen

Hear, hear, Peter. I used a 1971 B roadster as my go-to-work vehicle for 12 years in the 1990s, and my current BGT V8 is used all year round and mostly lives outdoors. It has recently covered nearly 900 miles on a trip to MG Live at Silverstone, and has been up to Perthshire with my wife and I for a short break. In 2015 it took us to the south of France. My only gripe as I age, is the heat inside the car in summer weather.

My first MG was an MGA 1600 Mk2 which I bought at the age of 19 for £350. Wish I had kept it! I've had Midgets and an MGF as well as the Bs, and all have been used properly. I generally can't be bothered with washing and polishing cars.
Mike Howlett

My first sports car was a Jaguar powered 100/4 Healey back in the late 60's-a fine machine--- My first MG was a 66 B roadster which I bought in 1975 off a guy that ran it in hillclimbs , I had it for probably 12 months using it in club competition events and as my daily but being a bit of a horsepower geek just wasn't happy with it-Gave the engine a big workover and won the MGB section at the speed event at the National Meeting in 76--still not happy I stripped it and v8'd it---Well ,did that stirr up the purists in the MGCC --sure did--I was on the outer for quite a while and ran mostly with another multi brand club---In my own opinion, although I can see the purist side of things, there has to be a general respect of how each owner of an MG treats his own car and I think it's probably the ultra purist side of things that deters younger ownership and club membership
Our club here is going through a bit of a transition at present-there are 2 sort of different members, MG enthusiasts which have been the core of the club for years and also Car Club members that own MG's and prefer to drink coffee who see themselves as purists or something I can't quite get to grips with
I reckon I've travelled further sideways than most of these will ever travel down the highway frontwards-------different world-not for me I'm afraid
In the old days you would hot your car up and wring it's neck till it broke, now they spend all the big dollars on crossflow heads and webers and go fast stuff and park them sipping coffee--I just can't understand why
It's just a big pose thing to me-

willy
William Revit

I read both this and the MGexp every evening. I like both, but prefer this group.
Bruce Cunha

Nigel - not driven a Bugatti, not even been in one, despite visiting the Owners Club hill climb a number of times in hope of getting a ride in the lunch-break cavalcade.

As far as owning one goes it would have to be a 'real' one, nothing else would do for me, many conversions seem to be based on a Marina! I have been in a VW Beetle kit/conversion. On those the fuel tank is in the 'radiator', and the owner said quite often he gets the pump cut off and a voice on the forecourt Tannoy saying he can't put fuel in the radiator.

Having the roadster since 1989, I bought the V8 as a daily driver in 1995 and as an IT contractor was driving up to 160 miles per day for several years, in all weather, with the car kept outside. It's been to Le Mans twice when MG were there, the roadster has also been to France, but it's biggest trip was 2500 miles in five days round mainland Britain calling in at Lands End, John o'Groats, and the most Southerly, Westerly, Northerly and Easterly points.

There's a good reason why the retired chose weekdays - outside 'rush hour' at any rate, and that's because weekend roads have become just so crowded all day. In the early 90s I drove from Chatworth to Solihull after a Kimber Run including through Ashbourne nursing the clutch as it didn't feel or sound right and didn't come out of fourth gear all the way, no way could you do that today. When home I even started the car in reverse to back it in to the garage so as not to use the clutch. Once in I pushed the pedal down twice and on the second time there was a bang and it shot to the floor - release bearing collapsed.
paulh4

Paul next time you got to an owners’ club meeting ask a few owners tell them of your interest and for a ride, if they all can’t or won’t then it might tell you about the general ownership of that vehicle at least at that meeting.

It may well not be the case with the genuine 35B but few things in life live up to the (over) hype, best to have a long try before you buy.

As you know I’ve used my Bs, Spridgets and other classics, some with RV8 engines, similarly to your V8.

I agree with you that some roads are crowded especially at rush hour and weekends but not all. Northamptonshire is a main hub location and has the likes of the M1 and A14 and many other trunk roads but if you look it also has many very quiet country roads (including single track and field roads) and we’ve often done a weekend drive and very few vehicles.

The point was that the MG club runs by the elderly owners being midweek is sensible for them but excludes the younger working owners or potential owners. However I understand the problem of when weekend events are planned still the younger members don’t attend but the clubs should investigate why that is because clubs for younger car owners often have weekend events and midweek (not daytime) events.

If the clubs don’t address the age problem, sorry I can’t think of the nice descriptions but I meant us oldies suffering with problems so we can’t use our cars or perhaps attend to clubs at all and of course we die so club membership and classic car ownership and all it entails generally diminishes.

Please don’t mention clutch problems, I’ve already previously lost two limbs in costs now the other two are about to go.
Nigel Atkins

It's certainly true that many areas of the country have superb areas for local touring, hence the various locally organised runs we do all over. It's getting to and from the further ones that has become the problem. For years I planned a cross-country route using local roads rather than use the motorways, and over a three-day weekend it was like having three runs instead of one. But after eight hours to Skipton the last time, and seven hours to the New Forest the time before last, we gave up. Now a large part if not all the journey is on main routes, with the hood up on motorways, unless we can cut across country for the last part as we did for the New Forest this year. After experiencing the M3 and M27 for the South Downs Run last year that is another thing we won't be doing again!
paulh4

Uhm, my keyboard seems to have got sun stroke by the missing words not in my posts (or is it me). For many years I've stuck with the boring motorways and trunk roads until at least within the county or next of our final destination.

I can't remember how many hours but the drive back from this year's weekend club tour at the Lake District was just about all motorways, we did manage to have the hood down all the journey though.

The idea of actually taking the classics out for a run seems to be diminishing, meets are often just that and not run outs and many seem to turn up in other than their classic(s), I know sometimes this is unavoidable. we almost seem to be getting down to attending local shows and the Drive-It-(one)-Day-(a year only).

Having said that 20+ years ago my MG seemed to the only classic attending winter MG club night meets.
Nigel Atkins

I can't claim my B is a daily driver but it more or less is in the summer and whenever the weather is not too foul the rest of the year.

I won't do "Park n Pose" for the reasons mentioned above. The one time I took cleaning kit to do the under bonnet, I got nothing done because people came up to talk to me as they could see an owner actually doing something (as opposed to drinking coffee in an inward facing circle). I gave up the local club because their interest is local car shows where they ...park n pose.

I think the problem is that a club (rightly) is run for the benefit of it's members. However that becomes self perpetuating and makes no allowance for what new people might like to do in a club.

There was much discussion about getting new members at the club. I suggested that we had small cards printed with space for the member's phone number that could be handed to anyone showing any interest. Also that an existing member would pick up a potential new member and take then to the meet, introduce them to other people and generally "chaperone" them before taking them home. Great opportunity for "selling" club membership. No interest.

I suggested runs where people just agreed to meet somewhere at a certain time during the run perhaps lunch at a pub. No route maps or directions; no convoy; no need for someone to plan /run the route: just drive and meet up, then go on your separate (or together ways). It did require individual members to actually do something rather than having it all provided. No interest.

It's their club, but it did not provide what I wanted: I left.

There has been an increase in people on the MGOC forum tho it must be said that some of the questions give cause for concern. But that may be the increase in people looking for an instant solution and who have little interest in finding out how things work, as anything else.
Michael Beswick

Micheal I think your ideas, possibly with a little tweaking, are great.

I think part of the problem is that many in clubs only want to attract new members who are like themselves and want to do the same as them which as you say is fair enough as far as it goes but again it is exclusive and eventually self diminishing.

Park 'n' pose is a new term to me which just shows how much out of it I am.

Being or looking busy is an old sales technique as potential customers are happier to approach you as you appear less pressurising and threatening.
Nigel Atkins

Interest in online forums has declined steadily over the last few years - I still get visitors to mine but no posts for ages.

Facebook groups have been partly responsible for the decline but to be honest I just got bored and only visit here occasionally.

I have also given up on club runs and meets - generally I just get in the car and drive to actually go somewhere! Last year it was a 2000 mile round trip to Italy - could have taken the more reliable and mre comfortable modern car but chose to use the V8 ...
Chris at Octarine Services

Just for you Paul
pics and (click on the bigger pic) video of a Bugatti at our unit many moons ago
http://www.burgesstuning.free-online.co.uk/page4.html

I do enjoy reading the threads, especially the general chit chat ones.

Peter
Peter Burgess Tuning

The MG Midget & Sprite thread just lost one of their major contributors. He passed away about a month ago at age 54(?) I think from diabetes complications. His handle was "Prop" and/or "Paper1"

I recall a couple of guys from the MGB thread who went quiet at least 10 years ago, Les Bengston from Arizona USA and Mega from the UK. Mega was Mike Hughes who made architectural steel handrails and related equipment.

There have been a few others whom I cannot recall.

Cheers

Gary
1979 MGB
gary hansen

Peter - I'd have liked to have seen that!

Chit-chat? I think we are running the risk of having two subjects for that ...
paulh4

There were MGB based replicas of the 55 made to promote the F1 GP. I think Ivan Dutton built them and I saw one there once it looked very convincing and Ivan said it was great fun and drove like the original. I was there collecting my 35 (if only :-) )
A routine 6000;mile service on a genuine Bug is a £20k plus job involving removal strip and rebuild of the engine right down to dismantling the crankshaft which is a fabricated assembly dowelled together.
Get a replica with a B series! I have talked to some Teal owners and wouldn't go that route.
Stan Best

To keep the mileaqe down you need to do what Lewis Hamilton does with his cars - drives till he's had enough, then instead of driving home he phones for his chauffeur and car transporter.
paulh4

I spotted this replica in the classic car museum, Qawra, Malta a few years ago.

I thought the front suspension looked very Morris Minor, so it could well have been Marina.

http://www.classiccarsmalta.com/


Dave O'Neill 2

Mr. Hamilton would have a long drive home.
Nigel Atkins

Very similar to the one I saw at Lowe's Hotel Monaco in May 1998. Torsion bar front suspension (visible in your pic), which both the Minor and Marina had.

Hair volume and colour changed somewhat since then!


paulh4

Mike

I am not sure if this thread has drifted away from your point - I fear that one of the reasons that there are fewer on this thread is that those of us who maintain their cars in standard configuration have the manuals and don't need much help but the next generation are too busy doing other things to want to learn how to look after an old car(and don't want to get their hands dirty either).

.... I started in 1961 with an A - swopped to B in 62 and very quickly realised it offers cheap motoring which is why the latest is a daily driver.

This site has been very useful over the years notably when Roger Parker helped convert a V8 to fuel injection but also with silly little electrical questions to which Paul has most of the answers.

So, I don't do rallies - 100 miles a week in the B (70 in the A yesterday)... and my eldest has just started teaching his eldest how to look after his 1800. I shall be joining you on this thread for a little while - God willing.

Thanks for all your help and encouragement

Roger
Roger Walker

"the next generation are too busy doing other things to want to learn how to look after an old car(and don't want to get their hands dirty either). "

Have you been on a forum 'elsewhere'? It's getting more frustrating with people just wanting to be told what to change, and not prepared to do any diagnostics which would avoid changing stuff that isn't faulty as well as learning how things work, particularly electrics. One person complaining of backfiring is asking how to stop it, but doesn't seem to want to go through the usual valve clearances, ignition and carb setup.
paulh4

Interesting comments.
I was mulling over my "epprenticeship in vehicle maintenance while I was rebuilding S U carbs yesterday. ( "O" ring degeneration yet again, 6 years this time................rubber/ethanol ??)
My A35 van didn't come with even a handbook, workshop manuals were far too expensive and Mr and Mrs Haynes were probably still looking at the pro-creation manual!!
Doing your own diagnostics and servicing was an economic necessity.
I did a lot of things wrong (still do), spent most of any given procedure trying to analyse functions AND learning. It was both fun and rewarding. Then there were the friends who were doing the same, and learning from them. If you were lucky even the local garage mechanic was also happy to share!
But then that's me!! I have always been "practical" and my pleasure in classic cars is being the "oily rag"!! But I do like "parking", and talking, but never posing !!
Perhaps the seeming decline in contribution on this site is down to there being fewer "oily rags", either due to more reliable vehicles, people being wealthier and therefore handing the jobs to others, or their hobbies and enthusiasms are directed more to circuits and chips!

Allan Reeling

Ditto most of that. I was in awe of one of my circle of pals who took the engine out of his Morris Minor to change the bearings. It was on the bench sump back on, and he proceeded to start it up just to show it could be done. Another one shaped the end of a steel tube so when placed over a rocker and valve and belted with a hammer the cotters jumped out. Another gizmo got them back in again. Same chap had his motorbike clutch fail, I saw him at a crossroads and offered him a push to help get it in gear, but he blipped the throttle a couple of times, forced it into first and with a momentary combination of wheelspin, wheelie and engine stall he was on his way. All necessity in those days.
paulh4

Paul - it's endemic - no-one (apart from us) can repair anything - even the RN which boasted the most competent Artificer branches staffed by people who could repair just about everything in a 60,000SHP steam plant, the electrics of advanced weapon systems as well as the hotel electrics of a small floating town - have been disbanded ! What hope for UK Plc ?
Roger Walker

I have noticed the absence of U.S. contributors lately to both the Midget and B Technical boards. The U.S. was the major market for MGs in the 1960s and 1970s. There were many in the Southwestern region of the U.S. where rust isn't a problem and they can be comfortably driven all year due to the mild climate.

A group of us who meet on Saturday commented last week how there seems to be a surge of interest in restoring MGs in the UK while in the U.S. there are fewer and fewer on the road.

I am the original owner of my 1971 Midget and when I stop anywhere in either the Midget or the B, the car instantly becomes a conversation piece. The observer's comment is often, "I had one of those in college and wish I had never sold it". Both of mine are daily drivers and the B is used for driving across the U.S. and to Mexico and Canada.
Glenn Mallory

I bought my B in 1993. It used to be common to find notes under the wipers when the car was parked. "Is the car for sale?" I don't get those notes any more though the car looks at least as good as it did years ago. In fact the last comment I received from a real person was "What kind of car is that?" Its an MGB. "Who makes it?" Followed by "I wouldn't want to get into an accident in that".
So I think the knowledge of these cars, and subsequently the interest in them especially among younger people has faded. The inclination of young people now (and also increasingly older types like me) is to pay someone else to fix and maintain their vehicles. So the dependence of owners on information sources like this excellent forum is declining. I have read that the cars that are of interest to a person are the cars that were popular while they were in their teenage years. Maybe that explains the Mostly Grandpas comment.
Glen
G Nicholas

"to pay someone else to fix and maintain their vehicles."

There is something in this months Enjoying MG about young people getting into maintaining their MGs more and more, but I have found completely the opposite, and in their own forum. It's becoming increasingly apparent that when people post a problem they want to know which bit to change, they are not interested in carrying out some simple tests and diagnosis that will both find the location of the problem as well as learn more about their cars. It's frustrating for those of us that only have their description of symptoms, when they don't answer even simple questions that would probably help localise it.
paulh4

Glen's comment about old cars and accidents is my experience too. People seem to be hung up on how crash worthy their cars are. Sad, I think.
Mike Howlett

I wonder how many are as strong as a sound MGB. 75+ mph into a solid concrete wall, 70G deceleration for the car, 40G for the driver. No intrusion into the cabin, the only injury was to his foot from slamming into the footwell http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/SafetyFast.htm

Modern cars are fine up to a certain impact from front and rear crumple zones, but after that the cabin becomes damaged. Having said that they are getting stronger all the time. Hence the increasing weight, and the huge pillars and framework restricting visibility.
paulh4

This thread was discussed between 30/06/2018 and 08/08/2018

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