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MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical - Australian Gearbox

HI guys,
What would be a good common 5 speed box to use behind rover 3.9 here in Australia?
LT77 & R380 come up in 4X4's only.Can one of these be used or converted.Toyota supra's are costly and getting rare.The Holden/Ford T5 but which one?
I have the LT77 bellhousing,a B&W 65 and an MGB auto rear axle.I realy don't want to use the auto box but I will when push comes to shove.
Cheers
Warren.
Warren

Warren, the bulletin board in this link had a good thread which listed a lot of information and sites dealing with the T-5, might help you identify what box to look for. http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?40,519828,page=2

Don't know about adaptors or bellhousings down under, but I think D and D is the main source here.

Bill Young

In Australian there is a company called Dellow who do wide range of manual gearbox bell housings and conversion kits. I am sure they do Toyota box to Rover V8. They may be a better option for you than one of the US suppliers.
David Witham

Warren, I've scanned a Dellow Ad & emailed it to you. BE
Barrie Egerton

The LT77 bellhousings bring good money at least here in the USA the 4x4 box is different and the stuff you would need to convert it (if you can) would cost to much. No TR7's or SD1's??? The BW65 is a big box.

BOB FISHER

Do a search on Dellow automotive, then down load their catalogue.
They don't just do supras.
You could try triumph and rover spares in Adelaide. They can sell you a rover box. They also sell the dellow bell housing with a box and clutch set up of their own.
It will cost you the best part of 2 grand by the time you've got it completly installed in the car with clutch set up and a tail shaft attached. Not cheap but the advantage of the Toyota box is that as well as being light, very smooth and strong; You do not have to alter the transmission tunnel, like you do for the others. The W58 (21 inch gearchange) box with it's 0.78 fifth is the best. If you go ahead with the toyota set up then do not get the supra slave off Dellow. Thats a half inch cylinder, way too small, you need a one inch slave (early holden,which dellow might be able to sell you, he used to do a MG kit, or rover).
Peter

Warren,

It may be worth looking at the Holden (Borg Warner) T5 since I am pretty sure the bolt pattern for the 3.9 Rover and the Holden bellhousing match but Dellow will know for sure since this is their specialty.

They have an excellent tech advice section too by the way.
Click on the "Contact Us" section on the website.

The box is cheap as chips and readily available and can handle the 3.8 Commodore motor for half a million kilometers with no maintenance apart from oil changes - speaking from experience here.

Let us know how you go.

Cheers , Pete.
Peter Thomas

Hi Guys
Well this is the update;Had a chat with Dellow about the Supra gearbox conversion and yes they have all the kit avalible,but the price came in at $2400.So I raised this will the Minister of war and Finance and my request was denied.
So next I visited a Holden wreckers in Cardiff(suburb of Newcastle)with LT77 bellhousing in hand and tried to find a gearbox that would match the patern or engine in some way shape or form.The 3.8 V8 T5 box will suit the engine and back axle as it has the best first gear ratio but this will come in at the same price as dellow, due to all the young kids doing V8 conversion in their Commodores.
On Friday I will take Peters advice and find Triumph/Rovers in Adelaide and see about the LT77 route.

Thanks for the input guys,I will post as soon as I can over the weekend.
Warren.
Warren

you might think about getting just dellows bell housing and sourcing the rest youself.
T&R arn't too good on aftersales service by the way
peter.

Warren,
If you can locate a bellhousing from a P76 V8, I understand that an adapter is available to mate it to the Commodore T5.

http://au.geocities.com/p76cortina/bellh_adaptor_t5t.jpg

Greg
Greg

If you can find a p76 manual this will bolt right up. However this manual box is
A-rare
B- not very good (you know leyland, I sometimes think they were the russian 5th column. Timing is right.
3 forward gears only by the way.
You can often buy the entire car for around 1200. Popular with people that have large sailboats or caravans , looking for a tractor.
I looked at the P76 option, but it is a very inferior motor and gear box combo compared to the supra 3.9 rover set up. They stroked the rover motor, but did not stiffen the block (they wanted to) and the heads are very P5. It is a great pity , it could have been great, but irrational interferience from british head office made the p76 an absolute lemon. There should be special course at university. "BL ,A prime example of how not to run a company, do the opposite of this and you will succeed!". They truely had some specacular know nothing idiots working in BL in the '70's. Mr bean like persons.
If you are really strapped for cash P76 is a very good option, it gets you there for minumum $. However there is a reason for this, it is the low end. Given the shear horse power these V8 make, I can't say you'd regret it (huge impprovement over the 4 cyldner)just not good value if you can actualy front the extra fout grand. Given the peronal effort and investment involved, well, you make your own mind up.
Keep trying, but I think you'll end up with he Toyota. It is (not by very much, careful pricing alas) the best option in Australia.
best of luck and let us all know if you find a good alternative, I'd love to be contradicted.
Show the front office this email, they can be specacularly annoying at times, however they do have their glorious rational mooments when they demonstrate why you chose them and why they said yes.
Peter

Hi guys
I rang T&R yesterday and they have an LT77 box there for $995 delivered to the door.I sat on the idea over night and this morning decided That the way i will go.This will how ever need a clutch(racing type $600) and a flywheel(alloy $400) but the money is now dry until June.I know thats near the $2400 of the Supra box but this will do hillclimbs with no worries.

Thanks for all the help guys

Warren
Warren

Warren it doesn't need alloy fly wheels or super expensive clutches. The MGB is much lighter than a rover, so the standard rover clutch is certainly good enough. Also wrt the gearbox, get a written gaurantee off these guys, that inclues shipping costs. That should make them careful to send you a good one. If they are not prepared to stand behind their product, don't buy it. Buyer beware. When I bought Dellows set up he initialy sent me the a W55 instead of a W58. He paid for shipping the wrong one back, and the right one out to me.
You will have to alter the MGB tranmission tunnel for the rover box. cut a hole and weld in a hump about 350 by 200 by 45mm.
Also a super light flywheel can ruin your day to day drivability, at least that is what they told me three years ago.
A standard rover set up on T&R's own site,
http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/html/motorsportparts.htm#clutchandflywheel
comes to $600
This is what I bought three years ago however;
The fly wheel they sell you is a machined rangerover wheel (half inch off) and the clutch is standard issue rover.
I can't say that this would happen to you, but in my case there were no locating dowels on the flywheel and the bolthole threads were very coarse. This meant for some careful lining up and drilling of locating bolt holes. Not what I bargined on having to do!
Much better off to;
Find a local machine shop who will machine half an inch (or more if you want, plenty of detail in the archives) off a rangerover fly wheel and then fit a 9.5 inch pressure plate, balanced with locating dowels. Even Repco do this stuff. Get a quote and compare. The advantage of this is you can look at the job they do before handing over the money, and they know this as well!
And of course the set up is all nicely balanced.
Also keep an eye out for a P5 or P6 manual Rover.
Peter

Not to hijack the thead, but it seems that the Holden Aussie versions of the T5 have a 9" input shaft. Makes for some long bellhousings.

Greg

Greg

You should also look at a Ford Falcon pressure plate. The size & bolt pattern are the same as Rover, only the price is different. BE
Barrie Egerton

What you might consider doing is get on the phone to the local wreckers and see if they have a supra gearbox. You should be able to find one of these for around 300. That was the price quoted to me 3 or 4 years ago. Or the celica box would do, these should be very common, and quite cheap . It is slightly heavier (steel case) and not quite as strong, but certainly strong enough. I believe(correct me if I'm wrong) Barrie might be using one of these. Plenty of people do, they prefer the steel case.
I'm not sure of the bolt pattern, but I've been told it is the same, certainly Dellow says that he sells a bell housing that will fit it and I doubt that he would have cast one up especially for it. The outside dimaentions of the celica box are the same as the supra.
Use the ford falcon pressure plate as Barrie suggests (around $120)
Have the range rover fly wheel machined, plate fitted and balanced (around $350, im guessing, Barrie'll know). You are up for this cost in addition anyway.
Then buy only dellows bell housing spigot bush and fork. These were $400 3 0r 4 years back. Maybe $500 now.
Adapt one of the celia tail shafts.

The disadvantage is that you may not get exactly the ratios you were looking for (W58 for axample) or exactly the right gear box gear lever tower length. The are 4 or 5 of the latter. We want the longest one. D size or 21 inch. Tha latter measurement is taken from the middle of the gear lever to where the bell housing bolts on. However you can easily put a kink in the gear lever to make up for it.
Lots about toyota gear boxes and ratios and applications in the archives.
peter

I do use a Celica box ($125 many years ago) because at the time, it was the reccomended box to use due to it's cast iron case. Since Warren has opted for the Leyland box any Toyota info is now redundent.
I took my RR flywheel AND press. plate to a local machine shop who skimmed 1/2" off the face & drilled & tapped the holes for the clutch ($60, again many years ago). With the Leyland box, I would suggest using a Land Rover tail shaft. It has the neccesary sliding joint & the front should bolt straight onto the gearbox. Only the rear will have to be modded depending on what diff. is used. Also the LR shaft is strong & quite thin. HTHs, Barrie E
Barrie Egerton

HI guys,
Well the box is en route and should arrive in the next couple of days.I was interested in the some of the views about T&R and time will tell if this happens to me,but atleast fore warned is fore armed.While I have opted to go down the Rover path its good to have more options for the next guy who meets this hurdle.
I have been looking on ebay for a flywheel and did wonder if the Range Rover would take the SD1 clutch,so thanks again for that snippet.
I will update when the box arrives(Its been quoted as"A GOOD ONE" by T&R) We will see!
Cheers Warren.
Warren

The big advantage of using the rover box is that it is the one used in the RV8 (has additional market veracity)and instructions on fitting it are multitudinous and completly worked out to the fraction of a mm. Rogers book springs to mind.
Definitly go with Barries approach with the clutch. Cheaper, better with out that slightly queezy feeling that you might have been taken for a ride by some SOB. In control etc.
The range rover and the rover fly wheels have the same diameter and the same starter motor ring gear but the rovers (and MGB's. morgans etc) are thinner. Most people just take half an inch off the face, see archives for details. Theres a very interesting and detailed reply from glenn Towery about getting it perfect.
Peter

With the rear Universal for the tail shaft. The MG one is not super strong. There is a holden joint that has the same bolt pattern and bolts straight onto the MG diff flange, but is much stronger.
i can't tell you which year, but I was told at the time that they are commonly used. I'm using one.
Shouldn't be too hard to locate.
peter

Hi guys,
Well it arrived Wednesday morning.I opened it up and to my surprize it looks as though its been rebuilt recently as the protruding parts of the gaskets are new and clean,and the gears feel close and clean on the shafts, thats the good news!
But there was one thing missing,a gear selector.One very short phone call later and ones en route and will arrive on Monday.While I may have been fleeced alittle on price, if the box is a good recon then its money well spent and time well saved.
I have several books that relate to B V8 conversion and Rogers V8 conversion never leaves my side at the moment.I intend to do my GT next as she's another failed project I took in,so I will know for next time and learn alot from this one.
There will be a Range Rover flywheel residing here soon no doubt from Ebay.So thanks for all the tips guys.
Cheers Warren.
Warren

Before I go,
Has any one use the Range Rover 4.0 & 4.6 BOSH engine flywheel in a conversion .This may cut the cost down as there's one on ebay thats cheep!

Cheers
Warren

I was quoted 2200 for a rebuilt rover box three years ago, so you're not hurting too much!
Peter

Has anyone out there used the R380 transmission with an earlier LT77 rear for a conversion? I have the parts, just wondering if it has been done.

Thanks.
C.J. Hunter

Guys
I can't believe what I'm reading here--someone actually said a P76 g/box was "not very good"
Do you realize that the P76 gearbox is the same close ratio B/Warner unit that was fitted to R/T Chargers and from memory they were about 2.5 or close to it in first gear. You will never break one in a B
Willy
WilliamRevit

"Greg, Boston

Not to hijack the thead, but it seems that the Holden Aussie versions of the T5 have a 9" input shaft. Makes for some long bellhousings.

Greg"

Greg ,
You are right and there were a whole lot of other differences as well.

The T-5 designation means "Transmission - 5 speed" and is a generic name for a whole family of gearboxes.

Big mistake to assume all T-5 boxes and internals are interchangeble...'cause they ain't.

Pete.
Peter Thomas

Spot on Peter
The T5's in Falcons were different from 6cyl to v8 and there were a few different ratios in them as well. Parts (gears) won't interchange unless you have the same box.
The Falcon v8 boxes had their gears at a different angle to the sixes to take the extra torque. I'm not sure of the length of the input shaft on the Ford boxes but I don't think it is as long as a holden one ?
Willy
WilliamRevit

Warren,

This T5 data may be helpful as it gives all the different specs and gear ratios, it doesn't give Holden part no's but no doubt they could be cross referenced.

Kevin.
Kevin Jackson

Warren,

This T5 data may be helpful as it gives all the different specs and gear ratios, it doesn't give Holden part no's but no doubt they could be cross referenced.

http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Borg-Warner-T5-ID-Tags.htm

Kevin.
Kevin Jackson

This thread was discussed between 19/03/2007 and 21/12/2009

MG MGB GT V8 Factory Originals Technical index

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