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MG MGA - Yellow indicators and hazard lights

I have just finished a job which I have been putting off for years. Early MGAs have red indicators at the rear and white at the front. As the years go by more and more drivers seem to be oblivious to their meaning and ignore my signals. I was also acutely aware that I had no hazard warning lights on a car which, some might say, has an above average chance of causing a hazard.
I was putting of the job because I didn't want to spoil the originality of the car but the time has come to give way to progress and safety

On the face of it it seems a simple job but it requires some logical thought and a methodical approach. The front is easy. Replace the headlights with new units containing pilot lights and put yellow bulbs in the sidelights. But... the sidelight bulbs are offset pins and double filament so some careful remodeling is needed here.

The rear is more complex. There is only one wire to each of the combined break/indicator lights. These wires can be used for the new indicators but a new wire from the brake light switch is needed to the existing red brake lights

Choosing a location for the yellow lamps is a dilemma. New plinths from a 1600 is one approach but I wanted to keep the 1500 appearance and make the job reversible. I chose Lucas aftermarket lamps with a stem fitting and fixed them on a bracket to the bumper bar behind the bumper. I aligned them with the join of the wing (fender) and the body which seemed the neatest position.

Next it is necessary to eliminate the flasher/brakelight relay by removing the brakelight connection and bypassing the relays. I am grateful to Barney for his excellent notes and diagrams on this.

Finally I bought a hazard warning switch which included the necessary circuitry and relay. This was fixed beneath the fascia close to the indicator switch and wired back to the main indicator circuits.

From the front the MGA looks no different. From the rear the new lamps are obvious and effective. Now I can drive with more confidence that others understand my intentions.
David







David Marklew

Hi David, I worry about people not seeing or recognising the flashing red lights, I had a similar set up to yours as fitted by the p/o , I have since taken the rear extra flashers off as they slowed the flashing down and replaced all the side and flasher bulbs with halogean ones which are much brighter than the originals in the hope people now see them

gordon
g c pugh

So, are the rear turn signals on all cars sold in Britain nowadays amber? In North America, it's roughly 50/50, amber or red. It's up to the manufacturer.
David Breneman

Yes, it is a requirement that they are amber and it has been since about 1960. The front ones are also amber but that might have come in slightly later.

I believe this is true throughout Europe, although someone might correct me on that. (It is very hard to talk about Europe now as no-one is quite sure where the eastern boundary is.)

I am wondering if the change over date was actually 1959 which is why the 1600 got the new rear light cluster.

Malcolm Asquith

Malcolm, I believe you are correct.

A more recent (early 1990's) change was to allow amber lamps (bulbs) inside clear plastic lenses. Another earlier solution was to use amber glass covers fitted over the lamp (bulb) as in the early midgets.

One day the US may follow the rest of the world, but don't hold your breath. We are supposed to be metric in the UK, but we still use miles.

Neil
Neil McGurk

Well, this is fascinating, because the US, which has some of the most draconian auto manufacturing laws in the world, has missed the opportunity to regulate something else! Our government does dictate, however, what *shade* of amber or red the rear lights must be. I don't know if it's on a Pantone gel spec or what...
David Breneman

David
In my initial post I hesitated to say 'my MGA had american style red and white indicators' I was unsure whether you had changed to amber in the USA. Were american spec MGAs fitted with amber lights at the same time we changed in UK in 1959 or did they continue with red/white?
Are hazard flashers compulsory in the USA? if so can you flash red at rear, white at front. That would definitely be illegal in UK
I take my MGA to France each year where I find drivers are even more unaware of my signals than in UK
David
David Marklew

For older cars in the USA, almost nothing is retroactive. That means MGAs are not required to have seat belts or 4-way flashers or an outside mirror, but the cops are usually happy if you do. I recently rigged 4-way flashers on my 1500 using the original turn indicator lamps, which means it flashes red in back and white in front in an emergency situation. I'm sure they prefer that to nothing, same as the lap belts.
Barney Gaylord

I have a similar problem with safety and tackled it a different way. A high level brake light from Moss wired direct to an out let on the relay box works well and leaves the originality intact. I painted the indicators lenses at the front amber and fitted extra amber side indicator lamps just in front of the doors . These were standard factory items for the Danish or Swedish market. As everything else on the road is wider than an A these are clearly visable. They don't look out of place. Also fitted are 3 pt. seat belts and head rests. P.S I don't drive it at night Sean
S Sherry

Hi, David -
US cars universally have amber turn signal lights in the front. I think American cars adopted amber front lights before British cars did, probably some time in the 1950s. Like Barney said, there is no requirement to retrofit newer technology to older cars. Cars here have had 4-way flashers since some time in the mid 60s. I remember my grandfather's 1967 Cadillac had them. They typically flash the turn signals in front and either the brake lights (on older cars)or turn signals in back. If those are red, they flash red. I have a Chevrolet Trailblazer and a Ford Focus and both have red turn signal lights in the rear. Cars here also have had side marker lights since the late 60s, amber on the front fenders and red on the rear ones. They are intended to make caes more visible when crossing traffic, such as on side streets.
David Breneman

1968 was the (model) year that many "safety" fetures became mandatory. Emergency flashers, side marker lights, collapsible steering columns, padded dashes and visors, etc. Some cars could not meet the regulations and were not exported to the USA. Later in 1973 came 5mph crash bumpers (front) then 1974 saw crash-and-height bumper regulations (front and rear), unleaded gas with catalytic converters, etc.
Jim P

Several years ago, I needed to replace my front lamp assemblies due to corrosion beyond all hope. My original lenses are white, but I decided to buy new units from Holden in the UK as they were selling amber lenses with the new lamp units. At the same time, I bought new glass indicator lenses for my rear lamps as they offered these in amber as well. Now I have amber turn signals front and rear (1600 lamp assemblies). Of course, I kept the white front and red rear lenses so I could reinstall to original if desired, but I prefer the amber look

Separately, I had added a third brake lamp from Moss, it is a Hella red rear fog lamp that they adapted to a magnet to stick to the rear deck, and it works great.

I have not tried four way hazards.

Ted
Ted Persons

For the front lights amber bulbs are available. 1157A (dual filament) for 1500 and 1156A Single filament) for 1600. These allow the US style clear lens but amber light.
For the rear of 1600 and MK11 the amber lens are available as stated above. The 1500 poses a problem as the brake must be red. Using 1600 assemblies or adding as Dave did are the options.


R J Brown

Jim, unleaded gas became a requirement in 1975. My parents had a 1974 Ford Galaxie-500 station wagon that took regular gas. It was wrecked in an accident that almost took my father's life (not his fault - another car crossed the centerline on the Tacoma Narrows Bridge and hit him head on). They replaced it with a 1975 LTD (same car - a little more chrome) sedan. Despite the marginal decrease in weight, that car, with the same 400 cubic inch engine, was downright gutless compared to the station wagon, and got 3-4 miles per gallon less. All thanks to the paleolithic smog controls. My 1968 MGB that did not have side marker lights - they must have given smaller manufacturers an extra year to comply on that one.
David Breneman

The requirement for unleaded was not a specific year. if the car could pass the standards without a catalytic converter it could still use leaded gas. The last car I know of that used regular leaded fuel was a 1979 Datsun B210. Emission laws specified standards not the technology to pass them. EPA passed and enforced emission laws. The NTSB was who made the safety rules. More rules than we recognise. Flat black wipers instead of Chromed ones is one of the sillier ones. 5 MPH bumpers were for insurance company protection not passenger safty. Many different rules at many times.
R J Brown

Sean

Any idea where I might find a set of the "extra amber side indicator lamps just in front of the doors. These were standard factory items for the Danish or Swedish market" ??

Thanks

Larry
58A
Larry Hallanger

Somewhat off subject, but, 1979-1986 Mazda RX7 used a thermal converter on the exhaust manifold, no catalytic converter, and was allowed to use low-lead fuel.
Barney Gaylord

You're right, RJ - I greatly oversimplified. Lead free gas was pretty well universally adopted my US manufacturers in 1975. "Slap a catylitic converter on and call it good." There wasn't an American car worth owning made between 1975 and the late 1980s. That's how long it took the manufacturers to realize that they had to do some real *engineering*, not just the application of Band-Aids.
David Breneman

Those same Band-Aids are what took MG from prominence in 59 to the sewer in 80. The only real change in that period was to uni-body construction. Everything else was either dictated by governments or minor evolutionary change. You really can't call the adding of a first gear syncro as a major technological breakthrough.
R J Brown

Larry, I found two makes of side lights that looked the part. First one was rubbish, then I found German made units ,Navara, they are side marker amber lights for commerical vehicles. they look very neat. The flasher can drives them well Sean
S Sherry

Sean

Any chance you can post a picture of the lights? And do you have a source where they are available? I just did a Google search for "Navara side marker lights" and came up with nothing useful. It seems that Nissan has a pickup called the Navara (here it is known as the Frontier) and that is all that I can find.

Thanks

Larry
Larry Hallanger

Larry I'll take a picture tomorrow and go to the store where I bought them , they have an extensive catalogue of all the lights etc., etc., Sean
S Sherry

Hi, I'm assuming that Holden still sells worldwide, go to http://www.holden.co.uk/

click on the electrical section, then on lighting and you'll see a selection of possibilities.

Ted
Ted Persons

Hi all, I'm probably in the realms of fiction now but I wonder if the technology exists to make a wireless, light unit made from a flexible plastic that one could stick magneticaly to the bumpers, four in all obviously, these would pick up a sgnal from a flasher unit in the car, you could stick them on whilst on the road then simply remove them when you got to a shoe etc, I'm sure there would be a terrific market for these as all classic car owners have the same safety problems of poor indicator lights in todays traffic
if you all think I've lost the plot this was typed at 3.30 am, can't sleep lol


gordon
g c pugh

signal and show being corrections lol
g c pugh

Larry, I have sent info to your personal email. Available to any one who asks Sean


S Sherry

Here is a link to trailer lights. Looks like that is where you could look. http://www.pmlights.com/products.cfm?cId=2&fId=1
R J Brown

Another idea for rear flashers on a 1500 using period Lucas reversing lights with amber bulbs.

Phil Parmenter
P Parmenter

Except uploading the photo didn't work
P Parmenter

Phil
I'm interested in the period reversing lights used as yellow flashers. Could you try to upload the picture again please.
Bruce
B Mayo

The lamps I used were from Holden [ http://tinyurl.com/2gmh6s ] who stock a huge range of repro and lucas original lights. I used ref L874 as shown in the image in the opening entry on this thread
David
David Marklew

This thread was discussed between 31/01/2008 and 15/02/2008

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