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MG MGA - One for the concours buffs, heater air hose clamps

I was recently looking to find a supplier of the correct heater air hose (one that actually fits without mangling)
https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/heater/hr109.htm
and thought I would get some new clamps at the same time.

Much to my surprise, the factory only fit one clamp at the heater end (as noted on Barney's page and confirmed with a look in the original SPL). Nearly all the car I see these days with a heater have a clamp both ends - even the Moss catalogue says you need (4) of these clamps (including the two hoses behind the grille). Scarborough Faire say only (1) is required.

I reckon it looks better with (2) clamps?

Mike
Mike Ellsmore

Mike

I think the hose looks fine with just one clip at the heater. First pic as original. I bought some very nice hose from Jim Alcorn in the US when I fitted my Derrington head. 2nd photo shows the Derrington installation with hose from Jim which is for twin cams. He sold me an extra long piece for the installation. John





John Francis

John, I am sure everyone would be happy with one clip if their engine bay looked as good as yours!
Cheers
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

While originally only one clamp was used, I'm not sure that any are actually needed. Once installed and the car is driven for a while, the engine bay heat seems to meld the hose in place. Every time I've need to remove the hose, I'd have to cut the end off and stretch the remaining hose upon reassembly.

As for Moss & others stating that you need 4, its a marketing thing: why sell one when you can sell 4, for four times the cost?
Nick Kopernik

"the factory only fit one clamp at the heater end". Hmmm, not so sure about that.

The WSM instructions for 'Fitting The Optional Heating And Demisting Equipment' are a bit confusing but do say ...

"Fit one end of the air hose to the connector and secure it in position with the clip."
[ The "connector" is the 4" metal tube through the radiator support panel. ]

then ...

"Fit the air intake to the connector on the heater assembly."
No mention of a clip at that end. Fig.S.4. and S.5. both show the pipe at the heater, no clip.
( No picture of the front end - with, or without, clip - unfortunately. )

I don't think you can assume that the SPL shows the installed position of everything.
The SPL is not an assembly drawing. Parts are often 'moved' to space on the page.
The SPL specifies only one clip for the heater/ventilation system.

The SPL does not list any of those clips for the air hose pieces in front of the radiator.


The Twin Cam, as one of its many entertaining differences, does have two clips on the heater air hose.
The WSM instructions say "secure at both ends using the two flexible clips".
and the list of parts in the WSM states 2 clips, as does the Twin Cam SPL.



I tend to agree with Nik that ( with the original type of hose anyway ) no clips are actually needed to keep the hose in place,
its natural stiffness and the cleat to the wing edge seem to cope. Without the clip I've been able to occasionally remove and refit the hose, using clips might flatten it some, maybe then it might be trickier to refit.

Whether the lack of clips allows the sucking in engine fumes might be a different question; maybe it wasn't considered at the time.

J N Gibson

I used 4" aluminum corrugated dryer hose. Very slightly slack fitting taken up by tape. No clamps
Art Pearse

I have had my MGA since it was "restored" in 2006.
It has never had any clips on the heater fresh air inlet hose, it has just been a push-fit. It is long and stretchy enough to compress just enough to remove and then stretch a little once it is refitted, to stay in place without a problem.

Mine is a Moss part and it looks and fits perfectly well, but although I have had to replace it once over the last 15 years, this was down to my early ham-fisted attempts to remove it.

Cheers
Colyn
Colyn Firth

This clamp question comes up from time to time. Interestingly there is no standard for number of clamps documented in the conquers checklist for MGA's. And even in Clausager's restoration guide, there are conflicting photos showing 1 and 4 clamps, but again, no specific statement as to which is correct. At least on this side of the pond, and it took a few years, general consensus has been reached that there should only be one attachment point for the hose, at the heater box, and secured with a wind up type clamp (see first photo). Second photo shows a "very original 1600" with only one clamp used. Link below is to Barney's site with many more photos of this car.

https://www.mgaguru.com/photos/orig1600.htm






Nick Kopernik

Nick, I would reckon one is the correct amout for concours as the quantity listed in the SPL for this part is (1).
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

I don't do concourse - I have cars for driving, not parking - so maybe I'm not entitled to comment, but I shall anyway.

Concourse organisers can make up whatever checklist they wish, it's their competition, their rules.
Those rules might or might not be based on an understanding of originality, or on the WSM or SPL etc,
maybe even sheer guesswork, or just an agreed specification with perhaps little concern for originality;
again it's whatever they wish.

If you want to win the concourse, then follow their rules. Otherwise it's your car, your choice.

After all the first "concours d'elegance" were where a gentleman showed what magnificence his coachmaker had produced,
Individuality was highly prized. There was no mass produced standard original to slavishly copy.

After sixty odd years an entirely unchanged car is something of a unicorn, I take any claims with a pinch of salt.

When I first had an MGA a knowledgeable, long time MGA owner, friend warned me not to rely completely on some of the pictures in Clausager; some are of cars that were already restored some while before and very likely have detail differences from whatever was original when they were assembled.

Jim

J N Gibson

A possible reason for the twin cam having a second clip listed for the heater hose is that there is more risk of damage with the hose on the same side as the exhaust system. This might also be the reason for the different material used for the twin cam hose.

Mark
Mark Wellard

Jim,
I'm with you, concours specification doesn't allow for real world variances of production at the time and any changes, or repairs, from when new at dealership collection. But if you want to play the game you have to stick to the rules. Which of course many don't, our club stand at the NEC international show for many years was near the AutoGlym and then Maguires national concours stand - the things you'd see on set up day.

I always tell this story about concours, but I'll keep it short. Someone I know was an expert on cars now 'classics' from when they were new. He was particularly knowledgably about Minis.

He went with his dad to pick up a Cooper brand new in the 60s. Decades later he went to a Mini show and took that car, on arrival he was persuaded not to take it to the general parking but enter it into the concours competition.

He only did so as it meant easier parking. When he returned he'd won 3rd prize and one of the judges said his car would probably have won had he left it unlocked as he was supposed to and he'd lost marks because something on the car wasn't original. This person being the way he is told the judge in no uncertain terms the judge didn't know what he was talking about and that's how the car left the factory.

I was told by a marque expert that a car I had didn't have the correct dash cover but again I know the person who bought the car brand new and owned it for 25 years before I bought it and that was the dash cover on it from new so was 100% genuine original to the car no matter what. Why it didn't have the usual "correct" dash cover no one would now know. When the expert bought the car from me he had to change the dash to the usual "correct" colour one and I used to say to him when I saw the car "that's not original" - and he fitted a non-standard radio-cassette and not even of a similar style !!
Nigel Atkins

I am the second serious owner of my 1958 MGA and the car has not been restored other than a respray and new interior pieces. There is a clip at each end of the heater intake hose and one clip on each air intake hose for a total of four. All clips are identical.

I suspect installing hose clips was not a very stimulating activity and too many pints the night before could result in skipped hose clips.
Bill Haglan

Bill

I suspect you are very close to the truth if not totally correct. In those days there were Friday afternoon cars. The guys had been to the pub Friday lunchtime with their weekly pay. What you got in the afternoon was anyone's guess.

Steve
Steve Gyles

This thread was discussed between 08/07/2021 and 10/07/2021

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