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MG MGA - New MGA owner, funky engine #

Hi folks,

I've been lurking for quite a while now and have finally broken down and bought my first British car, a 1957 MGA roadster.

I wanted a project car and boy howdy, that's what I got, a good candidate for restoration with the engine and transmission already out of the car. I'll be the third person to own the car with the intention of restoring it, hopefully, I'll be the first to succeed.

I know the engine is not original since the engine compartment plate lists the engine number as BP15GB/14881 but the number on the engine plate is 15F-N-H-37053. Here's my question. Does anyone know what car this engine came out of and am I going to have any issues installing it into the MGA?

The only thing I can find is some information indicating it may have come from an American Motors Metropolitan.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


LW Larry

Yes that is a Metropolitan engine number from around 1960. It is basically the same engine as the MGA 1500 and in the US was a common swap to replace a bad MGA engine. Should be no issues with installing it. It will not have the hole machined in the block for a mechanical tach drive. If you are rebuilding the engine you can have the hole machined, or you can use an electronic tach from a MGB or midget.

It only had 50hp compared to the 68hp of the MGA 1500. Much of the difference was probably due to the single Zenith carb. Don't know if there were differences in the valve size or pistons.
Jeff Schultz

Thanks Jeff,

As disappointed as I am at not having the original engine, I'm glad it won't be some kind of nightmare to get installed and running. My goal is to keep the car as close to original as possible. I'm not expecting concourse level since this is my first project of this magnitude, but I would still like it to look like it just rolled off the showroom floor.

This won't be some prissy trailer queen, I plan on driving it (if my wife lets me). :)
LW Larry

That is a fair amount of "less horsepower" and after all of your hard work it may be a disappointment when taking the first drive. I would consider selling the engine and trying hard to obtain an origional one to rebuild. It will make the car stronger and add more value. Just my opinion. Gordon
Gordon Harrison

I plan on using the MGA carbs, does anyone know if they will get me close to the original engine's performance?
LW Larry

I have just been browsing an article by a B-Series 'fountain of all knowledge' enthusiast - Neil Cairns. It could also be that the engine is low compression (8.3 or 7.2). May be worth checking what numbers you have on the cylinder head. If they are 48G241 you probably have a low compression engine. Have a look at this link:

http://www.mgexperience.net/article/mgenginehistory.html

Steve

Steve Gyles

I once owned a 1958 Metropolatan and rebuilt the engine. The top of the pistons were "dished" which would give a lower compression ratio.
Ed Bell

Since it is basically the same engine, if you are rebuilding it you could certainly get the same performance as an MGA 1500. On an engine that old, the things affecting hp like compression ratio, cams, valve size etc could have easily been changed over the years. That would also be true with any MGA 1500 engine you bought. You really can't know until you get the engine apart.

I would guess that most of the difference was in the carbs. The later Metropolitans were actually rated 55hp and the later MGA 1500s at 72hp. The compression ratio was the same on the later Mets and MGA 1500s. Don't know if there were cam or valve size differences.

Jeff Schultz

Hi Larry,
I have an original complete 1500 cc engine out of my '58 MGA coupe which you can have, if interested. Email me directly for more info. It is in BC just south of Vancouver, so not very far for you to pick it up.
Peter.
P. Tilbury

Hi Peter, I sent you a PM, check your inbox.

Ed, I think you are right about the dished piston tops. I squirted some oil into the cylinders and it ran to the center of the piston and pooled there. I had to run a rag around inside to get oil on the cylinder walls.
LW Larry

The Met engine cylinder head has much smaller intake valves and smaller porting. For some money you could have teh head machined to take larger valves, but the porting work could be expensive and might not work out right anyway. The better route is to find the correct "15" head with the right size valves.

Alternatives would be the "16" head from the MGA 1600-MK-II (1622 engine) or the "18" head from an early MGB. Those have one size larger valves and better porting, but also larger combustion chamber that would make for lower compression. Cure for the later is to shave the head a bit to reduce the chamber volume, a cheap and easy operation.

These engines have commonly been molested some over the years, so the only way you know for sure what you have is to pull the head for inspection to determine what valves and porting are inside. Maybe you get lucky and already have larger valves.
Barney Gaylord

Larry, What part of Oregon are you in? I'm in Clackamas.
Ed Bell

Barney, I'm honored to hear from you, your web site is what made me decide to get an MGA. Thanks for the information, I'm sure the head is original as I can see traces of the same yellow paint as is found on the engine.

Ed, I live in Hillsboro but for the time being am working in SE Portland (the main Tri Met office on 17th).
LW Larry

Here's a picture of the project car. What are you driving Ed?


LW Larry

Larry, I went past your work place just this morning. I hav a 1962 MGA 1600 MK-II that we finished restoring in 2002. It was wrecked in the middle 1970's and parked until 2000, which is when we started restoring it. Fortunatly it was a complete car, only badly bent and suffering from sitting around for 25 or so years. It's the one with the trailer in the photo.


Ed Bell

Gorgeous!

What color red did you use? I went to a local PPG store and they were completely unable to find any of the original MGA colors and most of the numbers that Barney Gaylord lists on his web site didn't come up on the store computer. I'm leaning toward painting the car in the period-correct Orient Red, but it appears from the photos I've seen to have a lot of orange in it. Any idea if the later Chariot red is a little more "Fire Engine" colored?
LW Larry

I didn't like the orange red, so went with a GM color, "Victory Red". I have seen various shades of red that all were supposed to be the "original" chariot red. My painter told me to look at modern red cars until I found one I liked and get the make and year so he could get the right shade of red for me. I have had lots of positive comments about the color, even though it's not an original MGA color. Not a problem for me, but some purists would not like it. I can find the paint code if you would like me to. Are you going to be at the All British Field Meet at PIR on Labor Day weekend? If so, you can see it in person there.
Ed Bell

All British Field Meet, Portland Oregon, Aug.29-Sept.1, 2008 go to ( abfm-pdx.com ) for information. Great show, and good racing.
Ed Bell

I'll have to check with my scheduler, but I would love to come see the car. I hadn't decided whether or not to come to the show but that gives some incentive to make it.

Besides, I'm sure my wife would like to see what her new car is going to look like (I'm restoring the car for her 50th birthday next year). At least it's a good excuse to try to get her to go to a car show.

I'll get the color from you later if I decide to go that route. I'm a long ways away from needing to decide the color.
LW Larry

By the VIN# your car was originally Glacier Blue. A beautiful and under used color. IMHO there are too many red ones out there already. (No one throw rocks at me one of my cars is red to)http://users.telenet.be/mga/MG-Owners-Gallery/MGA/album/slides/Randy_Brown__Denver_Colorado_USA.html
Here is a picture of a beautiful 1958 done in Glacier Blue.
Just something to think about. Congratulations and good luck or the restoration.
Randy



R J Brown

I am quite torn about the color. I agree that there are a LOT of red MGAs out there and the blue is gorgeous, not to mention original to the car (it has been repainted a darker blue at one time). On the other hand, I'm fixing it up for my wife and she has always wanted a little red sports car.

As I mentioned earlier, I have a lot of time to think about it.
LW Larry

Larry,
Get yourself a copy of "Original MGA" by Anders Ditleff Clausager. It has the paint codes in it, and you are going to find it very useful when rebuilding your car to determine what is correct and for where!
Peter.
P. Tilbury

Gentlemen:
I'm an interloper from the TD/TF site trying to identify the engine in my restoration car I'm told that it was from a metropolitan! The serial number on the side says 15C-N-H 122989 and I'm trying to find out when it was built etc and what car it went into!
Thanks
Rod Murray TF3006
Rod Murray

Rod,

I don't know if this helps, but engine number 15C-N-H 122936 (the closest I could find) is from a May 1958 Metropolitan with VIN number E50821. Assuming the engines were installed somewhat sequentially, I would guess that your engine originated in another Metro around that time frame.
LW Larry

Thank you LW Larry:) In one of the earlier posts in this thread thread the was an Offsite location on the history of these engines. Is there another location that I can find out what the specs are on that engine 15C-n-h 122936 0r 939 in mine? I need to find a manual for it showing part numbers etc as I'm going to take it apart and rebuild!
Again thanks for the help!
Regards
Rod
Rod Murray

I took the advice of you fine folks and will be buying a real MGA engine (thanks Peter). If anyone's interested, the old Metropolitan engine is for sale on Craigslist.

http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/pts/806536064.html




LW Larry

I painted my "A in the '60s Orient Red Acrylic Laquer. It really is fairly orange in bright sunlight, and spots if it gets wet in hot sun, no matter what wax used.


Russ Carnes

Dodge Viper Red is an exact match for the original Chariot Red. After painting my 1960 MGA in 1993, I repainted it in 2003 with the Dodge color, exactly matching the original Chariot Red.
cjh hughes

That's the info I was looking for. Thanks CJ, that's awesome!
LW Larry

This thread was discussed between 12/08/2008 and 26/08/2008

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