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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MGA - MOSS RADIATOR

I am looking for comments on the Moss radiator as to how good they are. I understand they are alum and how it compares to the Wizard Alum radiators. I need max cooling as I also run a Supercharger. If you bought either let me know if it keeps your car cool around 180 degrees.
JEFF BECKER

There don't seem to have been many posts about Moss replacement MGA radiators in recent times.

I understand that the modern tube design used in the replacement rads does not cool the MGA engine as well as the original cell core design did.

If you check out Barneys MGA Guru website, you will find that he is not convinced that an aluminium radiator fitted to an MGA will be any better than the original copper cell-core design, and most likely it will not be as good.

So the Holy Grail" for the MGA is an original cell-core copper radiator.

Probably the only reason that a Moss replacement copper radiator or an aluminium radiator would work better than the original cell core rad, is if the original rad had become blocked up.

The only problem may be in finding someone to supply a cell-core rad nowadays.

Cheers
Colyn
Colyn Firth

I talked to Kelvin at Moss in California. He stated the Moss radiator is better the cheaper units from China that don't fit proper and Moss units will. The alum radiator was stated to be a perfect fit and will work very well to eliminate heat. I did read the archives and some were my posts. I am still debating on a custom one or one by Moss. I am looking for feedback on how Moss unit worked for them. Kelvin said buy his as it will work great. Thanks for your input Colyn
JEFF BECKER

My MGA was fitted with a new brass tubular core radiator core when I bought it. The car overheated dreadfully; it would boil over by the time I got to my place, up a 300 metre climb even on quite mild days.
A local radiator shop was prepared to fit a cell core (V-cell) radiator core, as per the original MGA radiator (sourcing the core material from New Zealand). Unfortunately when they disassembled my radiator the shop owner told me that they discovered the top and bottom tanks had been internally cut off, making it impossible to fit the original type of core.

So I sourced a PWR aluminium radiator.
Now I realise many are sceptical about aluminium radiators..
Well, all I can say is that my single core, non-crossflow aluminium radiator, (but with apparently some trick internal design elements), marginally physically smaller than the original, and a heck of a lot lighter too, cools so efficiently that I amuse myself watching the temperature gauge oscillate as the thermostat repeatedly opens and closes on even very warm days; the radiator is almost too efficient! I haven't even hinted at hot-running since, though a shroud still seems useful for stop-start heavy traffic situations in our Australian summers.
I run an 82C thermostat, and just the mechanical engine driven fan and no additional electric fans.
https://www.pwr.com.au
T Aczel

Well that sounds like the answer for you Jeff, if you cant get an original cell core radiator and if the PWR aluminium rad works well in somewhere as hot as Australia can get, then it should be good anywhere in the world.

Maybe Tom could let you know which model PWR rad he has installed and also if any modifications have to be made to fit it.

For information, Tom is the pretty much definitive expert on overheating in MGAs, here is a link to an article he wrote a few years ago on the subject.
https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/cooling/cool_140.htm

Cheers

Colyn
Colyn Firth

As an fyi: In the U.S. there are two primary sources for cell type radiator replacement cores: Universal Carnegie in Pennsylvania, and Maine Radiator in Maine. It's my understanding that Universal Carnegie will actually install a new core, while Maine Radiator works thru independent repair shops. Here are the links:

http://ucvintagerad.com/

https://maineradiator.com/antique-classic-muscle-car-cores/
Nick Kopernik

What I don’t understand about alum radiators being promoted as superior to copper is the basic physics that aluminium is a far worse conductor than copper.
Paul Dean

I am a total fan of the original spec radiator. I never forget my colleague's car overheating dreadfully all the time. When I had my engine out for a repaint I lent him my radiator for a few days. Instant success for him. Down to the normal 178 ish. He went straight across the Pennines to Bob West and got hold of one of his close to original cored rads and never looked back. Out came his oil cooler and electric fan that he had bolted on previously but to zero effect.

As an aside, more out of interest than anything else, I fitted the Moss 7-blade asymmetric layout fan. The additional airflow compared to the standard MGA fan was phenomenal. The temperature rarely rises above normal (178) even in queuing/slow moving traffic. I can watch the thermostat opening and closing. I even convinced myself on one occasion when reasonably hot outside that the temperature actually dropped when stationary in traffic. Mind you, you don't get something for nothing and I will concede the extra draft is a tadge noisier.

Steve
Steve Gyles

"What I don’t understand about alum radiators being promoted as superior to copper is the basic physics that aluminium is a far worse conductor than copper".

Paul, radiators are made of brass, not copper. Brass has half the thermal conductivity of aluminium.
I just found this:
Thermal conductivity:
Copper 406-430 Watts/Meters/K
Aluminum 353-390
Brass 109-125

You can also create finer and more numerous fins in any space with aluminium, increasing the surface area of the fins.
The forming of the internals from aluminium also allows the clever radiator manufacturers to craft the coolant passageways to create turbulence, so that you don't lose efficiency through a layer of water hugging the tube surface, ie, all the fluid passing through the tube gets contact with the tubes' inner surfaces.

"Maybe Tom could let you know which model PWR rad he has installed and also if any modifications have to be made to fit it".

Colyn, when I first contacted PWR, they didn't make an aluminium radiator for the MGA.
I had several longer discussions with technicians at PWR to derive a suitable configuration for an MGA radiator. For example, when told the engine capacity and typical power outputs of our B-series engines, and the configuration of the MGA and MGB water pump, PWR advised against my original three pass, cross flow concept.
They then worked off an original radiator Gary Lock dropped in for them to get the dimensions of an original MGA radiator.
For cost reasons I elected not to ask them to reproduce the fluted indentations of the original top tank.
The bottom tank is shallower than the original, as again, for cost reasons I elected not to ask them to reproduce the bottom arched profile of the tank, rather to just make it shallower, so as still to clear the crank handle for those who wanted this facility to be available..

So, you can simply ask PWR for an MGA radiator, and they can supply off the drawings they hold.
If you do decide to order an MGA radiator from PWR, may I suggest you check your distances between your top, middle and bottom bolt holes in the radiator mounting diaphragm on your own MGA before you order. I think those on my MGA are slightly closer spaced due an accident repair under a previous owner. The current PWR specs are I think correct, but to fit a new PWR radiator to my car recently I had to elongate the mounting holes in my car outwards a little and chamfer the top corners of the radiator side mounting plate top corners to clear the carburettor and heater fresh air ducts. Both these steps were easy. Most of you however will not have to do this.
I suspect for most MGA owners the current spec PWR MGA radiator will fit right in.
PWR will build you whatever you want, but to build a modified design will take a little longer.
PWR will email you exact drawings with measurements of the radiator for you to check and confirm they are good for your car. My recent "off the drawings" radiator was shipped in three days.

PWR have addresses in the UK and in the USA.
For example, off their web site:
1141 Silverstone Park
Buckingham Road, Silverstone
Towcester, NN12 8FU
ENGLAND
Enquiries
Phone: +44 (0) 1327 362940
Fax: +44 (0) 1327 362960
Email: Andy Burton – Business Development sales@pwreurope.com
Web: www.pwreurope.com



T Aczel

"I am a total fan of the original spec radiator. I never forget my colleague's car overheating dreadfully all the time. When I had my engine out for a repaint I lent him my radiator for a few days. Instant success for him. Down to the normal 178 ish. He went straight across the Pennines to Bob West and got hold of one of his close to original cored rads and never looked back. Out came his oil cooler and electric fan that he had bolted on previously but to zero effect".

Steve, there is absolutely no doubt that the original spec MGA radiator works extremely well. What doesn't appear to work well in an MGA is a modern style staggered tubular core design.
I think Bob West's more recent design used a non-staggered tube row design, but it has been some time since I looked into this.

A local MGA restorer here in Sydney (Greg Keenan) swears by a four row brass radiator.

For those of us who can't readily access an original style core, a good quality aluminium radiator is an excellent option.

I had a discussion with Bob West about MGA radiators, perhaps nine or ten years ago. He told me that he had gone to an aluminium radiator core for a competition car he had recently completed. From memory it was a replica of a car that competed at Le Mans.
T Aczel

Copper transfers heat better than aluminum, but copper radiators are constructed with solder, which does not transfer heat as well as aluminum. That's why it's possible to get better heat transfer with an aluminum radiator. Using silver solder instead of "lead" solder on the fins helps increase the heat transfer.

I prefer copper, mainly because I can't stand the look of aluminum radiators. If someone made one that looked exactly, or at least similar to an original then I would consider it. At the very least using round tanks instead of flat welded ones.
Steve Simmons

When I bought my MGA a few years ago it had a chronic overheating problem. The seller had fitted a 'new' radiator, filled it with Evans coolant, fitted an electric fan, fiddled with different thermostats, blanking sleeves and all the perceived wisdoms.

I drove it home on a 30C day (86F which is quite hot for UK) with the coolant temperature gauge on 90 psi. If you have the original dual 'safety gauge' you will know what that means. It was detonating, running-on and generally getting hot and bothered. I never had such problems with the 3 other MGAs I've owned.

After consulting this and other forums, as well as Barney's guru website, I ditched the Evans waterless coolant, flushed the system and put in a 73C thermostat. Still overheated in warm weather.

Bought a new radiator from MGOC. I think they're made in China. Same problem. Finally spoke to Bob West. He recommended reverting to the original factory spec, on the basis that the British motor industry knew what it was doing in the 1950s, even if it has now forgotten those skills.

For not much more than the cost of the MGOC radiator, he sent me an MGA radiator based closely on the original spec. I believe his cores are made in Sweden, and they are copper, not brass or aluminium.

I fitted the rad, ditched the electric fan, put in a sensible thermostat, filled with 25% Bluecol antifreeze. Standard steel fan.

Result - driving hard in 30C temperatures (75mph), climbing hills and sitting in traffic - temp gauge doesn't go over 190F, usually 175 - 180. Doesn't run-on or detonate.

As others, including Barney, have said, they knew what they were doing in the 1950s. Just my experience. Don't know if the same holds true in Arizona, NT or the tropics. Worth a try!

John Harris

I have an original radiator with a crushed lower tank that I will happily pack up and send anywhere for the cost of the postage. I was saving it for Chris Betson, but as I am now packing up to move it will go in the recycling soon. It didn't leak when I took it out of the original car, and it had just done a 150km highway run - albeit without a functioning cap.
Dominic Clancy

Hi Dominic
I hope you take your car with you when you move to the Tropics.
To be honest, even when I don't drive my MGA over the winter, I must admit that I really enjoy just looking at it sitting there in the garage, the MGA is a really pretty little car.

I would really struggle to let my car go, even if I didn't drive it very much.

I must admit that there is is a bit of selfishness here, if you take your car with you, I can then take you out for a drive when I come to visit! :^)

Cheers
Colyn
Colyn Firth




I want to thank you for all the information. I will contact a few of the companies so see what they offer here in the US. Sounds like the radiator needs to be V cell core and seems better to get rid of the heat




































































JEFF BECKER

Hello Dominic

I am interested in your original radiator, if it's still available.

Could you please reply to me at mike.card(at)btinternet.com?

Kind regards
Mike
M D Card

This thread was discussed between 12/07/2021 and 03/08/2021

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