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MG MGA - MGA values increase?

The Winter issue of Moss' magazine,British Motoring, has an article on the price rise of British collector cars. It is reporting a 40-60% increase in the price of roadsters to the low-$40,000 range, and coupe values in the mid-$20,000. I think they are referencing from recent auction sales, which we have seen some very high sale prices in the last year. In my opinion, auctions do not represent real market values, but can some increases in our cars value be far behind...


George Goeppner

George

Those are high prices for over here. Just looking in the MGCC Safety Fast magazine for November 2004, a top of the range twin cam in 'stunning condition' is asking £18,250 ($32,000). Most good quality roadsters are under £15,000 ($27,000), normally closer to £12,000 ($21,000). Coupes rarely reach £9,000 ($16,000).

Steve
Steve Gyles

It's funny - in most collector hobbies, auction prices are widely considered an accurate guage of value. Yet for cars, they are often wildly-inflated aberrations. Why? Can't car collectors control themselves at auctions?

M.D.
'57 Coupe
M. D.

For insight into the mentality of auction bidders, watch Barrett-Jackson on SPEED channel this month. It often makes me sick. I would not watch it but for the occasional realistic price that is paid.
Tom Balutis

As I have mentioned before, many of the auctions get people who are bound and determined to go home with a specific car only to see it go for a price well above their means. They then make sure that they go home with something and end up spending wild prices for lesser cars.
I wouldn't put the MGA in the latter category, however. It's value seems to have been on a steady,slow rise for some time.

In the same issue of British Motoring that George mentions above, there is a photo of a particular MGA roadster that went at Kruse Auctions for over $52K. It doesn't appear to be an overrestored trailer queen but just a good #2 car from the photos.

Clayton

C. Merchant

Are these just regular cars going for these prices at auction? If they're cars with particular history, then I can (just about) understand it.

Over here, cars are mainly put into auctions if there is something special about them.
Dan Smithers

Dan, as far as I can tell, the MGA's getting these remarkable auction prices are nothing special. In fact, some are not exactly concours from what I've been told. I agree with Steve, the enthusiasts magazine classifieds reflect a more realistic value, with UK prices perhaps a bit higher than here. I've also noticed a jump in asking prices for MGB's as well here in the states.
George Goeppner

I think Moss was being a bit overoptomistic about the increase in value. Sounded like a ploy to get me to buy a bunch of stuff to make mine into a surefire piece of eye candy. And, after that, to make me think I've got something really valuable. Think I'll keep my feet on the ground and my beer and bait money in the tobacco can out in the shop.
R. L Carleen

Let me toss out this idea....
MGA prices increase for two reasons. Speculators (the minority) who buy the cars hoping the price will continue to rise and MGA lovers (the majority) who can finally afford to buy a car they always wanted as a youth. However, MGA lovers (the majority) are relatively old (my estimate is an average of 55+) and you see very few under 35 types at MGA events. They just don't care about these cars, at least to own them. So, in another 15-20 years, when the current 55+ crowd is dead or too old to work on and/or drive MGA's, the market for them will be nill, as will the value (with a few exceptions). So, if you're in it for the money, sell it in the next 10 years or be prepared to use it as a classy coffin.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
GTF
G T Foster

MGA prices are rising for the same reason that moderately priced home prices are rising. Most people cannot afford the higher priced cars, despite wanting one. Since they can't afford the top of the line cars, they look at something that they can afford. Hence, the MGA. The prices will rise as long as higher priced cars increase in value. Higher priced cars will plateau, where, I don't know, but there will be plenty of room for the moderately priced cars to increase, and they will.
mike parker

I agree with GTF, I have heard of this theory before with Ford Model T's and with the Model A. Gary
gary starr

GTF ... I suspect that the average age may remain much the same as the years go by.
I would assume that the 55+ age bracket corresponds with the time in many people's lives where their family income starts to rise again compared to their family expenditure - and maybe with children leaving the home, there's a corresponding increase in available time too.

Surely it's a self-renewing pool of people.

Personally, I must be bucking the trend. I'm in my mid-thirties.
Richard Ross

>Personally, I must be bucking the trend. I'm in my mid-thirties.

Me too; I'm 25.

But I agree that there will be a dip in the market in years to come as those who longed after these cars when they were new pass on or become too old to invest time in such a hobby. There probably will always be a good market for the MGB and MGA as these are truly classic cars with great lines that would appeal to one of any age. Where I would expect to see somewhat of an eventual drop-out would be with some of the Triumph models, fine cars but less desireable in their outer looks.

If you want to see a real nosalgia market that will undoubtedly crash hard in a few decades, take a look at the O-gauge (Lionel) electric train industry.
Classic cars, whatever their make or vintage, have some sort of universal appeal, but in terms of markets such as that for die-cast electric trains (new and old), there is a veritable parapet between generations.
Josh

This is too funny........

I'm 57, bought the A in '79 to replace the one I bought in '66 but had to sell in '67 when my first son was born. The car has been in a gradual state of restoration ever since and has never been in storage or "off the road", other than for repairs. Looks good and runs great.

I painted it Dove Grey always suspecting it might be that box that GTF mentioned above.

And this year, I finally had my Lionels refurbished, ran them around the Christmas tree for my grand kids.

and, promised the A to my 2 year old grandaughter, she likes it better than the boys. She likes the Lionels better too, she may end up with the whole lot!

In the meantime, I'm having fun.

Cheers
Ted

For me the value is when we're at a show or just out for a drive and people stop and ask questions about the car. Or when they begin to tell you the stories we all know so well. "When I was younger I used to own one of these and ............". Most of us "Old F..ts" (64 going on 30) can tell the same story. It's the pride knowing that in many cases we brought the car back from a piece of rust to something people admire. The rest of the value is just driving them. What a change from the hectic life of the everyday commute in our modern cars.

Oh yes, it also helps when someone makes you a good offer as has happened to me more than once ($20-25,000) and you can turn it down.
Joseph Wiley

Ted and Josh; I also collect/restore Lionel pre and post-war trains, and always have one under the Christmas tree. Quite a coincidence, I wonder what's wrong with us...?!
George Goeppner

Nothing--I've got my Lionel, too, stuffed away in the attic when my younger brothers showed no interest. Rescued from the junk pile when my folks moved, by my sister, who thought that someday, her kids might like them (never happened). Ran them for the granddaughter, but she was more interested in her own (Brio wooden) railroad. She likes my A, but "Paw-Paw"s (her other grampa)'s TR3 is better because "the doors fit her better".
R. L Carleen

I am sure that I "invested" twice what my car would be worth on a sale, but then I never tought of it as an investment. I drive it often here in South Florida, especially in the winter. It is showing the result of such use; road debris dented the hood, the rear seals are leaking, and the carpets need to be reinstalled after replacing the floorboards. Not to mention parking lot dents and a hood latch that will not release. Whatever I break I usually fix.The way I see it, I have many hours of enjoyment working in my garage ahead of me.
Tery Marcus

That's what they're for. Use 'em, fix 'em break 'em, patch 'em. They're for fun. I pity those who hesitate to use their cars for fear of losing a few points at the next car show. I have an investment counselor for growing my money. I don't see cars, antiques or Beanie Babies as investments. Things are meant to be used...and that includes the antiques the missus brings home occasionally & she concurs.
R. L Carleen

I have four children ages 15-24 who are who have grown up with "their" MGA, and in fact have always given it the respect and affection that they would any family member. All of them (including my sole daughter) are interested in carrying on the passion that I have I have for the car when I pass on (no MGA coffin for me!) This is very heartening for me because I know that the car will be in good hands--several pairs at that! So I believe that there will be another generation of A lovers out there who take up the cause and keep these cars in the public consciousness.
C R Camilleri

GTF, I bought mine in 1973 at the tender age of 16...still have it and IT WILL BE MY COFFIN!!!
mark mathiesen

I bought the MGA when I was 29, am now 33, and my three year old son always wants to go out in the "little car". He also likes going out in the "old car", the Magnette we bought as a family classic.

dan
Dan Smithers

I think there's a big difference between hobbiests and collectors. Most of us on this BBS enjoy working on our cars whether the end result is driving or showing. Most of the Barrett Jackson types are collectors who invest in classic cars the same as some people invest in Chippendale furniture. While I'm glad to see the value of my car going up, it's sort of frustrating to watch the cost of replacements rise along with it. I've had my A for 24 years and I have no intention of ever selling it. But I'd like to know I could replace it if I had to.

I was watching the recent B.J. auction on Speed Channel last week and I recall one car which the commentators said was worth around $40K. But 2 guys got into an obvious bidding war and it went for $110K. Did either of those bidders think of the real value of the car or was it just a contemporary duel?

Bill
Bill Boorse

GTF, Good ideas on the age thing, but I have to disagree. I bought my roadster at the tender age of 40, that was 3 years ago.

I grew up around many, many different makes of cars and have always been a fanatical auto enthusiast,(I thank my father for that who at last count has owned more than 60 cars since 1940.)
There are many "collectible" cars that appeal to me and many of those are still affordable, however one look at the MGA and I was hooked.
I only recall seeing one MGA as a teen in the 70's but it left a lasting impression. I had to know what that car was.
It's lines are beautifully classic and such simplicity to work on. It is timeless!!

MG cars as a whole have sucked me in, and given the chance, many people get the MG bug. They are very endearing.
I think that the cars themselves will continue to generate interest amongst auto enthusiasts long after I'm gone, but they won't get mine until they pry that gorgeous banjo steering wheel from my cold dead fingers! :^)

Clayton
C. Merchant

One reason to track car values is to try and determine how to insure our cars. I'm not back on the road yet, but I would like to set an agreed replacement value with my insurance company if the unthinkable happens. I have a friend who completed an outstanding GTO restoration 10 years ago, and had it insured for $25K. Some GTO's in the Chicago area have $40K asking prices today, and he has turned down an offer of $28K. He's going to update his insurance coverage.
George Goeppner

I don't think demand for MGs will decline after the current generation of old geezers passes away. After all, people still pay high prices for Bugattis, Stoddard-Daytons and Stutzes, and old MGs are only getting rarer as the years go on, despite (or sometimes because of :-) ) our best efforts. The difference will be that most buyers will be people whose interest in classic cars will bring them to discover MGs, not those whose interest in MGs brings them to own a classic car. If anything, this trend will cause prices to go up, not decline. The era is ending when an MGA or MGB are "nice affordable old cars"; they are becoming "nice affordable classic cars" and will become "nice not un-affordable classic cars".

I was taking advantage of the nice weather last weekend to go for a spin in the MGA, and as I was putting air in the tires at the local Mon-N-Pop store, a mother with two very young boys (oldest maybe 5) came up to me and they all told me how much they liked the car, especially the kids. New MG owners are being born every day. :-)
David Breneman

But when was the last time you saw one of these collectors out enjoying a Sunday drive in their Bugatti or Auburn? Or a quick spin down to Albertson's for a jug of milk? No-- A's and B's will continue to be driver's cars--only a few will ever find themselves in a collector's mausoleum for metal objects. And these will probably never be worth what they paid for them. It's like a lot of collectibles, from Lionel trains to Beanie Babies; collectors place high retail values on them, although they seldom bring the price on the open market. Supply feeds demand and rarity generally sets prices. MG's during the sixties, were the #2 import marque, behind VW. Most MG's except the 1100's, seem to have survived, because they were "keepers" in terms of style and performance. There will always be a market for an affordable sports car, and those A's and B's that have survived will fill that niche nicely for years to come. Right now, they're a nostalgia item for us aging boomers. There's an upper limit as to how much most of us would pay for that one last look at our lost youth.







3
R. L Carleen

MGAs are a timeless design and beautiful when compared to any car throughout history. However most people these days would never put up with such antique machinery and the thought of a breakdown will send chills down their spine. The MGA of the future may look just like the MGA today, only with a different engine. Those of us who enjoy the negative aspects of 50 year old technology are becomming fewer.
Steve Simmons

.....and fewer, faster. The worth of my cars is always measured by the width of my smile. The drool is reserved just for the Super Charged MGB though! Vic
vem myers

R L Carleen says:

> And these will probably never be worth what they paid for them.

But that's the whole point of this thread, isn't it? First rule of economics: An item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. :-)

It would be a shame if these cars some day become *so* collectable that people are afraid to drive them, but even if that is the case (and, ironically, *especially* if it is the case) it means that the MG value "bubble" that GT Foster predicts bursting will continue, instead, to keep rising idefinitely.

David Breneman

For many years I have said that I will pass my MGA on to my daughter when I'm gone as she grew up sitting next to me in all of my MGs (past and present). As the years have passed, she has become an adult - gotten married - and had children of her own. Her husband, my wife's son-in-law (notice how I passed on that blame to my wife?) has a strange outlook on values especially when it comes to the pride of owning something (MGs) we others seem to have in common. He feels there is no "value" to them unless you can sell it and make money.

My values are based on all of the things mentioned in this thread. In addition, I might add, I do own a car that sold for about $1700.00 new and now is worth (money wise) over 10 times that much, according to the offers I've had. I will admit that I have spent a lot of money restoring it to "near" original, but I've also enjoyed all of the work I've put into it myself. That, my friends, is pride and there is no price you can put on that. Oh did I mention that I also drive it with that big smile on my face that Vem M. refers to? Let the admirers drool.

As far as passing it on to my daughter? Probably so as I hope she still has some of that pride she inherited from me.
Joseph Wiley

The trait that you refer to, Joseph, is referred to as knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.
James Reinhardt

You hit it right on the heads, James.

Joe
Joseph Wiley

James is correct and a few years back there was a Volvo TV commercial that used that expression while panning across the cowl of an MGA. You would have to know the car to realize what it was.
John DeWolf

Dear listers;
I have read the aforementioned posts and I believe the consensus is " to hell with the notion that potential MGA/ Brit car drivers/owners will eventually disappear into the sunset" We could get whacked by a SUV on the way to the pub tomorrow ,so what's the point? Go out and enjoy the cars..I own two MGA's and a 63 XKE coupe..Winters are long here in Northern New York.I have a 52x 30 building done up like a brit town square inside ,complete with a working pub..My brit car friends gather here for a pint. I pass many hours puttering with the cars. In summer, I have nice get-togethers, where the camraderie is paramount, car condition is of little consequence...if it's british and it rolls. you're in. I am fortunate to have discovered a Brit car hangout just 25 minutes north of the border in Quebec called the Rockburn Pub( see it on Google). We are a loosely knit bunch of Brit car lovers age 30's to 70's who leave our ego's at the door,avidly share the problems, passions and joys of Brit car ownership..I have to say they are the nicest people I've ever met, I race a 59 MGA coupe and was delighted when they all showed up at my race last Sept in Watkins Glen! I also have a 58 mga roadster with 1800/3;90 (sorry purists) which did 2000 miles in 2 weeks..(Nova Scotia to Newport RI) without a problem...DRIVE THE CARS! As far as worrying about values..during the XKE resto, I was lying awake nights wondering when the next 7K bill was coming in the mail..the project finished at nearly 78k.. will I get my money back on a totally restored 3.8 tri-carb matching number car? Probably not.. but when the days cool, the leaves get their color and the Adirondack Mts are at their peak, we head down Rt 79, through Lake Placid, past the Hummer/Mercedes crowd,along Cascade Lake ,MGA purring or the Jag six howling, leaves flying in the vortex and I think " I could have left the $ in the bond fund...NAW" Drive the cars...it's later than you think .
All the best,
John
s john

A very nice '62 Mark II just sold on ebay for $27,501.00. Ebay number 4516692480

Lyle
Lyle Jacobson

Look, GTF is right, a lot of the market is due to Boomers.

BUT, the MGA is a GREAT car; have owned four of them and enjoyed each one more than ANY other of dozens owned of whatever age or vintage. Still own a '59 in a "30-year restore,"now.

And I ask you, whatever the divine handling qualities, what other car can you still put a crank through the front bumper while passer-bys gawk???? Don't tell me you have never done that! Nuff said.

End of thread???? Hahahahahaha, R.

PS Also own a 1980 TR-7 and DANG(!), I wish it looked more "classic," but it's SURE FUN to drive, just no crank, bummer!
R. Alan

Unlike the Model T and Model A Fords, the MGA can be driven in modern traffic with no upgrades or a few upgrades for those who need slightly more modern ammenities. Yes, I can see a slight (Read- small) divit in the future of the vehicles prices as they change from one generation to the next, but again, we are not talking about family cars but something that can be enjoyed for pleasure and was built with style as much as function. The Early fords previously mentioned did have style, but for thier era, this style was the last point mentionable. What about Stutz, Mercer, Pierce-Arrow, Franklin, Duzenburg, Rolls Royce, so on and so forth. The price of those needs to be compared as well. The model As and Ts were the very base. The MGAs were closer to the bottom end, but they were not the bottom end of the market and by no means as plain in appearance. Drive a Ford in its day and no one took a second look. Drive an MGA in its day and what? How many times have we read about (including This thread) someone getting thier first look at an MGA and that vision is still burned into thier mind today! Additionally, with the modern plastic throw away cars, those restoring old cars in the future will continue to restore cars mostly in the 1970 and older catagory here in the Americas for multiple reasons.

At the age of 25, I went from part time to full time restoring, repairing and even altering our LBCs for show, go and race. Now, almost five years later (actually started back with my Dad in his shop Many years before that!) and a few months from the ripe "old" age of 30, I have placed my bet that there will be a market for these cars well into the future and have no plans to work on anything other then British vehicles.

MGs are, Not were(!) cars that command attention.

Safety Future,
-BMC.
BMC Brian McCullough

Brian gets to a good point:
The curvelinear design of the MGA makes it unique and appealing even to those who have never seen one before. I think this does gives it an intrinsic value beyond its market value or appeal to one generation or another. As Brian said, there are automotive designs that have appeal that transcend generations (Stutz, Mercer, Dusenberg). I agree the MGA is just such a design, but then I am way biased toward the car. While I doubt that we will see the car achieve AACA "Classic" status (way too many were produced), I do believe that the car will always remain a "classic" in our culture and thus a hot commodity. The design and curb appeal does that as much as our memories of the car. Truth is, it may have been "undervalued" by collectors for a while (if there is such a thing in a free and open market), but it certainly appears to be appreciating now. Who'd a thunk that a 57 Chevy convertible would command the prices they now get...or that MOPAR 70's muscle cars at auction in Scottsdale would easily command prices in the $70K range? It is simply design, appeal, supply and demand. Fasten your seat belts, gentlemen. We are in for a ride.
Frank Nocera

Frank Nocera writes:

> Who'd a thunk that a 57 Chevy convertible would command the prices they now get...

That's right! I came across a picture of my parents' 1956 Chevy (Bel Air?) coupe in a photo album. Two-tone red and white paint. These things go for 10s of thousands of dollars today. Beside the picture was the want ad my Dad took out when he sold it, around 1970:

1956 Chevrolet coupe. New Tires. No smoke. $200.
David Breneman

I stumbled upon this site while searching the Net for MGA values. I'm in my 30s and own a red '57 MGA roadster which has been restored over the past 3 years. Regrettably, I have not had the time to use the machine and am contemplating selling it. The classic car market out here (South Africa) is small and values lowish. I can expect to get maybe USD $10 - $12 000 - that's if I can find a buyer. It cost me a lot more to bring it up to good/very good condition.

I don't regard classic cars as a real investment in monetary terms. I bought this car simply because it is beautiful - the MGA has some of the loveliest lines of any car made. I agree whole heartedly with the sentiments of Brian and Frank. The few outings I enjoyed in this machine were gold - the roar of a 50 year old sports car, the mountains stretching ahead and behind, and the smell of the wet earth after the rains in this most beautful corner of Africa.... I am so torn now and know that when she is gone, I will miss her! As a consolation, I know that a tatty old classic has been given a new lease on life and that's worth something!

Mike
Mike Haynes

This thread was discussed between 04/01/2005 and 19/01/2005

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