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MG MGA - MGA coolant recovery system
| Has anyone out there come up with a tidy, easy and reasonably cheap way of installing a coolant recovery system on an MGA? If so, what type of catch tank did you use, where did you fit it and what sort of radiator filler cap did you use in order for the coolant to find its way back to the radiator (this is coolant recovery not coolant catching). Your comments and any useful pictures would be much appreciated by me and I'm sure, anyone else contemplating this modification. Thanks in advance, Lindsay. |
| Lindsay Sampford |
| Im sure ive seen something in the archives (spelling?) about this, I think its under the heading " An MGA with attitude" or something close. it uses an expantion tank from an MGB mounted close to the rad, and a altered rad cap, It looks pretty easy, hope that helps, vin |
| V Rafter |
| Lindsay Now you will really get everyone going. There are 2 types I believe. One is a system whereby you keep your pressure cap on the radiator and have an unpressurised overflow/recovery bottle. The other, like mine, is the MGB system and modern car system with a pressurized expansion tank. On this system a simple blanking cap is put on the radiator and the pressurized cap on the expansion tank. See here: http://www.mgaroadster.co.uk/radiator_expansion_tank.htm I have since relocated the tank to the front of the firewall just behind the rear carb. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Mine like I suspect everyone elses has a midget expansion tank mounted near the rad ( it does not matter what height this is at) and from the tank the small pipe is fitted to the neck connection (vent) of the original rad. The pressure cap is now the one on the expansion tank and so the cap on the radiator is simply a seal for topping up the rad. I simply used an original pressure cap with the pressure bit removed and a seal around the cap to seal the filler of the rad. Cost about 2:50 for a second hand Midget Expansion tank. |
| Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo |
| Just to be controversial, I don't actually follow the conventional thought that the expansion tank needs to be adjacent to the radiator, although I agree with Bob that height is unimportant for a pressurised system. Mine is 22 inches away as the crow flies; a bit longer if you follow the pipe. See image. Steve  |
| Steve Gyles |
| Steve How did you mount the bracket for the bottle? I want to add the tank (I have the bits) but I have a space problem. Where you had the tank first, I have a large pulley. Where you have it now is my carb,,,, |
| dominic clancy |
| "The other, like mine, is the MGB system and modern car system with a pressurized expansion tank" I have to take exception to the above statement, which infers that all modern cars have expansion tanks. In fact, all cars with radiators have expansion tanks, whether they are internal (AKA header tank) or external. Only the late 70s MGBs had an external expansion tank and cars today are mixed, some having external expansion tanks and some having internal expansion tanks with factory installed coolant recovery systems. I agree that sealing off the filler neck on the internal expansion tank and plumbing in an external expansion tank will work just as well as a coolant recovery tank. The MGB or Midget brass tank is not the very best way to go. There have been numerous reports recently of these tanks failing due to the brass becoming work hardening and cracking due to the constant expansion and contraction. Newer cars use a plastic expansion tank (both internal and external). I chose use a coolant recovery system, because it doesn't involve a pressurized line from the filler neck of the internal expansion tank to the external tank, and I can get a none pressurized recovery container at most auto parts stores (although I made my own for our TD). Lindsay - To answer your question, does the container have to be close to the radiator?, the answer is no. On our TD I have the container on the firewall (probably beating Steve's "22 inches as the crow flies"). It is recommended that the container be approximately the same height of the radiator header tank (internal expansion tank), but I have know of people mounting them closer to the bottom of the radiator and having work fine. The issue with mounting them low is that if there is an air leak somewhere in the cooling systems, it is conceivable that all the coolant could siphon out (something that I find hard to believe - but...). Any thing can serve as the recovery container since it is not pressurized. I made the one for our TD out of 4" plastic pipe, others have used cleaned out oil bottles. The only requirement is that it be about 2 quarts in capacity and will stand up to hot coolant. Cheers, Dave |
| David DuBois |
| All the Asain cars we work on use a non presurized coolant recovery tank. All you need to make your own is an appropriate radiator cap a hose and a container. Not rocket science. KISS keep it simple s*****. No pressure means no failure. To use a pressurized tank like the B system just introduces additional opportunity for system failure. A stock MGA radiator cap wont work. The cap must have a rubber seal at the top of the neck where MGAs originally had a metal seal. |
| R J Brown |
| I can see pros and cons for both systems. The MGB/Midget pressurised system could fail by its very nature of being prssurized, then so too could any other part of the pressurized cooling system; hoses, brass radiator. The thing that appeals to me about this system is that everything is available and ready made for the job. Incidently, the blanking cap for the MGA radiator is available (on eBay) as a blanking cap for an Austin Allegro (arrrgh!)1100, 1300 etc, so no need to canabalize a pressure cap. The non pressurized recovery system is good because it adds no extra pressure vessels to the system and I guess a transparent plastic container is easier to monitor with regard to coolant level. The biggest problem is finding a long reach pressure cap for the MGA rad with the built in coolant return valve (Barney Gaylord says these are rare and it might be neccessary to convert the MGA radiator to the more modern 3/4" filler neck, the caps for these being more readily available). My series III Land Rover has the non pressurized recovery system, and although all the parts are in tip top condition, it doesn't work partiularly well, and I occasionally have to tip some of the contents of the catch bottle back into the rad. So I'm going for the MGB system because it's easier and it looks like it should be under an MGA bonnet! |
| Lindsay Sampford |
| Lindsay I have had my MGB system in the car for about 5 years now. I have had no problem with it to date, says he touching wood. However, you may have a bit of trouble sourcing one. I guess David is correct and they break eventually and are now getting in short supply. I managed to eventually find one from Watford MG Breakers http://www.mgbreakers.com/ complete with the bracket. I then made an additional adapter plate to secure it to 2 existing bolts on the redundant master cylinder blanking plate. The beauty of these systems is that they can be reverted to original in the time it takes unscrew a jubilee clip, pull the rubber pipe off the radiator overflow and swap radiator caps. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| I agree that the easiest safest route is the non-pressurized catch tank. If you use the right hose, though, there is no big deal about using a pressurized catch tank - you just add one additional place where a high pressure rupture could ruin your day. Cheapest and easiest is to just buy one of the aftermarket non-pressurized add ons. |
| Bill Spohn |
| Just a thought with the MGB and other pressurised sytems, I guess it is just a case of where you place the caps whether it's a pressurised or recovery system. i.e. Should I be concerned about the MGB tank integrity I simply put the pressure cap back on the radiator and the blanking cap on the tank. I have never considered the overflow option, although one thing that puzzles me that I would like someone to explain is how does the overflowed water get sucked back in through a spring loaded cap? Obviously expanded water under pressure only has to overcome the 7lb spring pressure on its outward journey; but on cooling down it somehow has to get past a sealed disc with the spring holding it firmly in place? Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Steve, there is a separate little valve in the pressure cap that works in the reverse direction to the main release valve and with a much lighter spring. When a vacuum starts to develop in the cooling radiator, it sucks coolant back from the overflow tank via this secondary valve. These special caps seem to be available in the 3/4" reach variety (as fitted to my series 3 Land Rover) but are quite rare in the 1" reach variety as fitted to the MGA. According to Barney Gaylord, the answer is to have the later type filler neck soldered on to yor MGA radiator. I'm not too keen to do that! |
| Lindsay Sampford |
| Would it work with the expansion tank mounted below the radiator header tank, i.e. in front of the radiator between radiator and grill. I don't seem to have any other place where there is space...  |
| dominic clancy |
| Dominic Yes. Height is immaterial. Pressure differential sorts out the 'suck back' into the radiator because the internal pipe in the MGB expansion tank (and I suspect most others) reaches down to the very bottom of the tank. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Dominic, you need to get rid of that silly thing with the pulleys on it, then you will have room. The address to send it to is....... But seriously, check out the image on Steve Gyles' posting on this thread that shows it fitted up near the washer bottle (right hand drive). Would yours go in front of the master cylinder or maybe the other side? Some have said that it does not matter whether it is above or below the radiator, so theoretically you could mount it anywhere as long as you can get to the cap to top it up. I do know that it is fitted below radiator cap level on the 1500 Midgets. |
| Lindsay Sampford |
| A few years ago, I installed a coolant recovery system consisting of a clean Castrol jug with a large hole in the cap for a length of rubber tubing. I mounted the jug down by the L/H motor mount and secured the other end of the tubing to the radiator overflow pipe. Filled the jug about half with coolant, topped off the radiator, seemed to work fine in maintaining the radiator full at all times. Marvin |
| Marvin Stuart |
| Interesting Marvin, was that using the standard pressure cap? |
| Lindsay Sampford |
| Marvin, That sounds like the Aussie system to save water - every now and then you tip the contents of the overflow bottle back into the radiator - saves money going down the drain if you are using Redline Water Wetta! Mike |
| Mike Ellsmore |
| Steve, I have procured my MGB expansion tank and the blanking cap for the MGA rad. I am trying to decide where to put the tank. Why did you move yours from the front to the rear? Another little thought I have had is that the pressurized recovery system could, by a change of cap on the radiator to one with a return valve, and by placing the blanking cap on the expansion tank, be converted to an un-pressurized system, so installing a pressure expansion tank is "the best of all possible worlds"! By simply changing rad caps you can have standard MGA cooling system, pressurized recovery system and un-pressurized recovery system. Brilliant! |
| Lindsay Sampford |
| The radiator cap I use is a STANT R-6 (Master Mechanic #46004, I don't have the NAPA #). It's a 7 lb cap, available at most auto parts stores. It allows the coolant to overflow from the radiator when hot and backflow from the jug when the radiator cools. Marvin |
| Marvin Stuart |
| Hi Marvin, in the States you have proper auto stores, I know, Iv'e seen them, they're like Alladins cave, full of goodies, and you can spend a whole Satuday morning in them. Here, if its not a pink steering wheel glove or an air freshener forget it. "Radiator cap? no mate, they stopped fitting them on cars after 1980". I did try a search on those items you mentioned but drew a blank. Thanks anyway. |
| Lindsay Sampford |
| Lindsay It worked fine in that position and was compact, but I was concerned on 3 counts: First it prevented easy access to the front carb; 2nd I was a little concerned that I may not get enough cooling air round that part of the engine; and finally, it was very fiddly to remove. In its new position I only have to undo 2 easily accessible bolts (two minutes maximum) to lift it out of the way for rear carb adjustment. Thanks for the explanation of the two-way radiator cap. Steve PS. Did your Series 3 Land Rover come with a Shelley Jack? If so, which version? |
| Steve Gyles |
| Yes Steve, it's a "TANGYE SHELLEY" No.LJ264. |
| Lindsay Sampford |
| Just another thing Steve, what sort of rubber hose? Is the stuff for fuel and rated at 160lb psi that sells on eBay ok for hot coolant? |
| Lindsay Sampford |
| Lindsay I seem to recall buying standard pressure hose from my local car spares shop. They had plenty pipe of various inside diameters. Is that the correct jack for the Series 3? I have a Shelley Jack databse and have the LJ263 listed for the Landrover series and possibly Range Rover; and the LJ264 as 'maybe land Rover'. Any information most appreciated. See here: http://www.mgaroadster.co.uk/shelley_jacks.htm Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Can't really say whether it is the right one except that it was in the toolbox under the passenger seat when I got it back in 1992. I can't imagine that someone removed the correct jack and replaced it with a "maybe". My LR is a 1975 88" Petrol model, it was a truck when I got it and I fitted it with a hard top. Lindsay. |
| Lindsay Sampford |
| Been in the process of installing my coolant recovery system today and have made a startling discovery! My standard long reach radiator cap has a return valve built into it, I had previously thought it hadn't as it is not as obvious as the return valve fitted to the later type short reach cap, but the black centre of the main valve mechanism is sprung and has a rubber seal behind it. This means that I can run my coolant recovery system as an un-pressurized one. If most radiator caps on our cars have these valves, it explains why Marvin's simple solution works. So it would appear that providing a coolant recovery system is a lot simpler than I thought at the beginning of this post! |
| Lindsay Sampford |
This thread was discussed between 18/05/2009 and 22/05/2009
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