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MG MGA - IRS for MGA

It may be heresy, but I'm considering a project to change over to an IRS for my 62. I've come across a kit offered by Hoyle engineering in the UK. Has anyone installed one of their units?//nk
N Kopernik

I believe that Warren Kennedy at Marston Mortaine in Bedfordshire has this fitted to his V8 MGA. His website is classicrestorations.org.uk
Cheers,dave
DM Gibson

Nick, don't know of anyone over on this side who's used the Hoyle, but Thomas Ross used a narrowed Corvette rear suspension in his MGA conversion, might give you some ideas. http://www.britishv8.org/MG/ThomasRoss.htm
Bill Young

I've got one of John's IRS with a LSD, plus the revised front end set up in my yet to be completed MGA Honda S2000 (all right purists, I've got a MGA and MGB GT in standard form!). I won't be able to comment on the handling until mid-2009, but John Hoyle has put his IRS etc. on his own MGA. There is a CD available called Ultimate MG Performance, and one of the cars on there has the Hoyle setup (& the Honda engine).
Gary Lock

Contact John Hoyle - he will tell you who has fitted one in a MGA. I have a front suspnsion conversion in my sprint car and the roadholding is excellent, can't comment on the rear conversion but I am told it is a vast improvement on the standard cart spring set up. Your standard rear end can be improved with decent shockers and anti-tramp bars.
Terry Drinkwater

I have both John Hoyle's front and rear suspension on my MGA coupe. Both the front and rear suspension are a vast improvement over the standard set up. The rear suspension particularly on bumpy roads is really good.
I was running my car with a supercharged MGB engine until last year and when you accelerated round a bumpy corner with the standard set up the rear end of the car hopped across the road. Now with the Hoyle rear suspension with a Ford Sierra LSD it just digs in and you can accelerate away.

Rod
R J Myers

Thanks to all who have responded. I've had my A since 1980 and have reached a point where I would like to do some work on it. I've been fortunate in that after 27 years of driving, I've only broken down twice, once the starter went out on the flattest road in the world and the other time I picked up a load of bad gas and it plugged the filters; naturally I drove off that day without any tools or spares. Not sure if I want to go the full restoration route and tie up the car for a year or two, so I thought some incremenmtal upgrades/changes may cure my itch. Thanks again for the info; it will come in handy.//nk
N Kopernik

Hi, Nick...

I, too, have had my attention captured by the Hoyle IRS. Somewhere in my future plans is an MGA build with IRS, and probably Miata power.

I would love to hear how you are progressing. Where in CT are you? I am north of Boston, but work out west of Boston in the 495 area.

About a year or so ago, I was tracking a project car in Canada that had a Hoyle IRS which was offered on eBay. I would love to know where that car landed. Does this ring familiar to anyone?

Well...we can dream, can't we?

Cheers,

Rick

rpb bunch

Going to an IRS is expensive and not really worth it when compared to a beam axle that has had some attention spent on it.

I have run the same engine in two cars, one with IRS and one without and lap times were very similar.

The notable difference is that a beam axle will really need an LSD of some sort, especially with higher powered motors while the IRS gets excellent traction without.
Bill Spohn

I must admit I disagree with Bill over the beam axle versus the IRS.

Whilst on a track I agree there is little difference between a beam axle and IRS as I have found out at track days in the UK with my MGA, there is a significant difference on real world driving on the road.

Most circuits in the UK and the ones I have been on in the USA have been very smooth compared to the actual roads in the UK.

In real world driving on the normal roads we have in the UK I would go for IRS every day with or without LSD.

If you can afford IRS buy it, you won't be disappointed.

Rod
R J Myers

An MGA on LSD.....wow man....have the 60's returned?

Sorry, just couldn't resist.....:)
Happy New Year to all!

GTF
G T Foster

Rick, I live in Redding, on the western border close to the NY line. Not sure if I can get to this modification this year as I'm doing some interior work for the spring, but this Hoyle unit has really piqued my interest. If I do head down this path, I'll post some commentary.//nk
N Kopernik

I don't disagree with Rod - there is no doubt that an IRS sticks better on a bumpy track. On a smooth track, I have even seen front beam axle (MG TC) cars do very well.

On a medium bumpy track (pretty much everything we run on in the Pacific Northwest), the TVR would grip, while the MGA would sometimes skitter sideways a foot or two if the surface were bad enough. Without some form of limited slip (whether welded or LSD) that would indeed make the MGA slower, but with such a device they were essentially equal.

For the original poster, with an original MGA engine, I'd stick with my statement that it is a lot of money for very little real world benefit. There are lots of more productive and less expensive things you could do to the suspension.
Bill Spohn

Hi NK - Heresy perhaps but I still don't understand the concept of altering a 1950s car in such a way. Why not just buy a car with IRS in the first place. I have a 1950s car for the experience of driving 1950s technology in a modern world. As long as the suspesion is restored to how it should be when new - no worn or loose components - then that should be it. In the '60s everyone was into modifying and "improving" the MGA but that was when there wasn't any alternative - Just my opinion. - cheers Cam
Cam Cunningham

In fairness Cam the heritage of MG cars has been constant modifications. The people who do modifications today are merely continuing that heritage. It is a shame that more people do not follow that premise although I believe there is a space for factory exact cars, just that we seem to have more now than in say 1965!! When I would suggest every MGA had been "personalised".

I like the mods being done by Hoyle engineering, just wish I could afford to have them.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Cam, I must admit that I am a little conflicted with the thought of this upgrade. When I bought my A in 1980, it had been modified with parts from International Harvester truck (lights), a garden hose in place of heater hose, washers made from tin can lids, galvanized flat sheet metal dash and a wonderful paint job which was brushed on (did I mention the stained plywood door panels?). I was able to get it back to great driving condition and have installed some components to increase reliability (solid state fuel pump and distrubutor). Overall, car is still not original, but only those knowledgeable about A's can tell the difference (garden hose, etc. are gone though!). As it relates to originality vs. upgrades, I actually appreciate all efforts to keep period vehicles on the road. Those who faithfully restore to original spec's and those who modify or customize to personal taste are all to be commended, even if they do install a tiger stripe interior (yes, these was a local A which had this eye popping feature). My greatest accolade goes to those who have vintage cars which have not been restored at all. Even in those cars with faded paint and torn interiors, there is something about the drive to maintain originality that I really do appreciate. I'm not sure if I will proceed with this or other changes, but the two modification rules which I follow are as follows: 1.) Make no change which cannot be easily reversed and 2.) Keep all original parts in case you need to invoke Rule #1. Thanks, Nick.//nk
N Kopernik

Hi Nick - yes I am with you on that - as long as the next owner can revert to original parts - then nothing is lost ( only the money you spend on the "upgrade"). In the '60s I did a lot of mods on my '61 midget - but originality/collectability wasn't hi-profile at that time and an IRS conversion would have made a lot of sense on the MGA, Midget and MGB then - so I agree with Robert(Bob) in that respect.
I have considered the 5 speed conversion as my box is deteriorating each year - [I already have the Sierra box - but am still saving up for the Hi Gear kit (savings keep being spent on Caribbean cruises!!)] . The ride/drive will stay the same but gear changes should be easier (losing the '50s feel) but it is all reversible.Good luck with your decision - cheers Cam
Cam Cunningham

An interesting point not mentioned so far is the legality of such a conversion in certain parts of the world (ie: Australia). Here we have very sringent State Government rules on modifications to chassis % other drive trains etc even on MGAs (hotrods are able to get away with most due to their age and certain older pre-Transport Division of Occupational Safety approvals are excempt in some cases). In my experience (over 28 years working for and dealing with Queensland Dept of Transport) such a modification would require serious engineering and certification reports, otherwise your 3rd party insurance and registration approvals would be refused and if involved in an accident would result in a law suit liable to find you without home or assets of any kind (unless you have a spare half million tucked away somewhere)
regards
mark
Mark Mathiesen

Mark, here in the U.S. each State has its own set of laws & regulations for motor vehicle licensing & registration. Generally there are regs governing the use & suitability of brakes, lights, windshields, exhaust, etc. and vehicles are expected to meet the Federal standards in effect for the year of manufacture. Here in Connecticut you can build your own car, kit or otherwise, and use the "composite" registration process to license it for the road. Safety is paramount, but unless there is an obvious flaw (headlights, exhaust, etc), here does seem to be a lot of wiggle room when it comes to acceptance of modifications.//nk
N Kopernik

Just add my two pence worth!
My much modified A will have (has) John Hoyles front double wishbone setup and hopefully one day his IRS but as budget does not allow yet it currently has MGB. My intention is to retain the classic looks of the A (externally you will be hard pushed to tell it is modified at all), whilst upgrading the drivetrain & suspension to more modern standards. Hopefully this will give me the best of both worlds. Mr Hoyle is himself (not only a very good engineer and nice bloke) also completing his very much modified A, which features all his excellent components and like mine started from a basket case/box of bits. Look out for his A in the press soon.
Chris Bond

This thread was discussed between 30/12/2008 and 06/01/2009

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