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MG MGA - Gotta bite the bullet

Hi Folks. Looks like I finally gotta bite the bullet and replace my inner sills and rocker panels! When I rebuilt the 1500 roadster twenty five years ago, the inner sills and rocker panels were rusty but still there. I recently found that both rocker panels were rust perforated, so cut one off. It is now abundantly clear that the inner sills are badly deteriorated, and need replacement, along with the rocker panels, and perhaps pillar bottoms. Does anyone have any information on how to do this tricky work? I want to leave the tub on the frame. I already checked out Barney Gaylord's website, and found some good, basic info, but am looking for comprehensive information, or more detailed, perhaps step by step instructions. Looks like my toy may be off the road for some time. :-( GLenn
Glenn

Glen,
The Moss repair parts worked fine for me. The best thing I did however, was to get a set of corrected rocker panels from Carl Heideman at Eclectic Motorworks in Holland MI. As a result, the doors will fit well all around without sticking out at the rear dogleg. Be glad to send photos of this repair.
BOL,
Doug
D Sjostrom

Glenn,
Check out Carl's website, http://www.eclecticmotorworks.com/
Also, November 4 & 5 he has a MGA sheetmetal restoration class.
It is worth going to.
mike parker

Hi Doug. Thanks for the offer of photos! Id love to see them. glennsmga@operamail.com Hi Mike. Thanks for the link, it is extremely useful. I now have a much better, perhaps even pretty good understanding of what needs to be done. Clearly a lot of work! Thanks for the assistance folks. Other tips, ideas, and tutorials are still welcomed! I dont think it is possible to over prepare for a job of this magnitude! Cheers. Glenn
Glenn

Glen,
Do yourself a favor and get your sill pieces from Scarborough Faire or Tod Clarke. I can tell you from pesonal experience that, although Moss's sill (457-800/810)will work, it is very diffent (much narrower and wrong contour) than the original. SF's are perfect. Todd Clarke's pieces are also excellent. Also, I strongly recommend that you make your own repair pieces for the pillar bottoms. Once again, the Moss repair pieces, although they will work, are not correct. I too can send photos if you're interested. Outer sills (rockers) are another story. From what I've heard and read they're all junk and have to be reworked unless you are lucky enough to find a set of NOS...I bought some NOS years ago and just installed them. Also, the recommendation for Eclectic is on the money. I understand they do the rocker panel rework as well. Although it's a coupe, Frank Grahm's "Sebring" web site has some excellent photos of this process.
Best of luck,
Gerry
G T Foster

Hio Gerry. Photos would be much appreciated, thanks! glennsmga@operamail.com
Glenn

GT,
How recent was your observation regarding the Moss parts? Aside from some easily corrected twist when placed on a flat surface, mine (labeled "Made in England")were perfect.
Regards,
Doug
D Sjostrom

Hi Doug. The Moss outer rocker panels that I ordered last year have a tag that says made in Taiwan! They look to be well stamped, and seem to be the right shape and size to be a reasonable fit on my car. I will let you know how this all turns out. Glenn
Glenn

Glenn,
I sent you the photos (~4meg). The package was too big for your inbox??
Remedy?
Doug
D Sjostrom

Hi Doug. Sorry for the inconvenience. Operamail has some nasty limitations. Please try sending photos to glennsmgeh@hushmail.com This is a new email account, and might have less restrictions. THanks! Glenn
Glenn

Done.
D Sjostrom

Hi Doug. I got the photos and tips, thanks for your efforts. The photos clarify a number of issues for me. I guess a picture IS worth a thosand wordes!!! lol. I have a question: Did you drill holes in the inner sill flanges, and then weld the inner sill flanges to the flat backing plate through these holes? Sort of imitation spot welding? Thanks! Glenn
Glenn

Glen,
The easiest way for the DIY restorer to attach these panels is by plug welding with a MIG setup. You punch 3/8" holes every few inches on the flange of the panel, clamp it in place and fill the hole with weld. Of course this assumes that the old metal that you are welding it to is sound and intact. Drilling out the old spot welds can leave you with Swiss cheese for a working surface, that is why I invested in a pneumatic spot weld mill to remove the welds first and leave a smooth intact surface to work with. I have a whole series of photos and descriptions on my Sebring MGA web site at http://safetyfast.homestead.com/home.html just scroll to the bottom of the home page and click on 'sill repair'. I wanted the panels to look original so after plug welding I ground down the plug welds and went over the panel with a Lenco spot welder every 1/2" (OK I admit to being anal about originality). I had found that the spot welder worked very well when joining two pieces of fresh metal but produced unreliable welds when attaching new metal to old. Sometimes the spot weld would pop, sometimes burn through and sometimes hold well, all with the same setting. OTOH, the plug welds were consistently good and solid.

Frank
Frank Graham

Frank,
I've been curious about the spot weld mill for some time. I know what it does, but could never figure out what it looks like, or where to get one. How about a picture and a source for the tool?
Barney Gaylord

Glenn,
Does this mean that you'll have something to do over the winter? Perhaps we can be spared the poetry!

Dan
Dan Barton

Glen,
I did indeed punch 5/32" holes and plug weld with a MIG welder using 75/25 Argon/CO2 shielding gas. Used weld through primer on the mating surfaces before assembly.
Regards,
Doug
D Sjostrom

Hi Dan. No poetry? Not on your life. Id rather lose my right arm! lol. Unfortunately, my garage is too small to work inside it, so I am forced to do the sill replacement job in my driveway. Not ideal conditions, but (currently) beats doing it in New Orleans, Mississippi, or Texas by a considerable margin! Cheers! Glenn PS Doug and Frank: thanks for the spot welding "how to". Cheers! Glenn
Glenn

I think Frank may have meant 3/16" holes, not 3/8" holes. At least that is the size I always use for a plug weld, with success.

G Goeppner

George,
No mistake, I use 3/8" hole punch, although a 1/4" would probably do. Anything less and you run the risk of not getting good penetration of the backing panel because the weld can bridge over the hole on the outer panel. With a 3/8" hole I use a slight circular motion with the welder. With 1/8 or 3/16" holes if you make a mistake and take a chisel to the welds you will find that some welds are weak and pop easily due to poor penetration, that won't happen if you use a larger hole. At least that has been my experience.

Frank
Frank Graham

Barney,
I'll have to take a few digital photos of the spot weld mill and post them along with dozens of other photos of the restoration. I always intended to add these to the web site but I became too busy with other things and never found the time to get it done.

Frank
Frank Graham

Response to Doug,
The sill pieces were purchased in 2000 so perhaps they have been changed. However, the PLASTIC headlight bucket I got from Moss was also labled "Made in England"!

Gerry
G T Foster

3/16 was my default choice after switching to a pneumatic punch/flanging tool. With 5/32, there is indeed additional concern regarding penetration.
Doug
D Sjostrom

Frank, I'm surprised that the 3/8 hole doesn't warp the metal, that's a lot of hole to fill, i.e. lots of heat input. I have a commercial punch for this, and it applies a 3/16 hole, which when ground down approximates the look and size of a spot weld. A slight circular motion will fill the "hole", and you can go back and touch up if a small portion is missed. Good clamping across both pieces is absolutely essential. I inspect every weld, its easy to see if you've achieved penetration by observing the back, which I agree, is important for weld integrity.

G Goeppner

This thread was discussed between 26/09/2005 and 27/09/2005

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