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MG MGA - Got my A today

My dad's, now my, 1962 MGA got here a few hours ago. It's been in the family since 1964. The paint is in worse condition than I realized but will look nice when I finally paint it. Sea air will eat paint...

The mechanical stuff doesn't seem too bad, though. The engine and carbs aren't seized up and all the parts are there. Probably needs a frame up paint job and there is no way I can afford to do that now, though I may have to learn how to do it myself.

Anyway, here are the pictures:

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2157/arrivalcw4.jpg

Period crossflow head. The engine was bored out at 60 over.

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/6712/fronthn2.jpg

img117.imageshack.us/img117/1851/trunkvh3.jpg

But the dash looks cool:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8789/dashjn9.jpg

By the way, what is this knob for? The one above it should be the choke. It turns left and right but doesn't pull out. The one on the bottom pulls out, but I'm not sure what it's for.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7651/knobmv4.jpg
DL Henderson

Here was another picture:

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1851/trunkvh3.jpg

I love this car, but it was sad to see that it's gotten so rusty. It's been in my dad's garage for almost 20 years and I hadn't seen it since he parked it.
DL Henderson

Here is the knob I was asking about:

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/963/knob2ol6.jpg

I believe the choke knob above it is rusted through. I'm going to soak it in oil.
DL Henderson

DL,

If I remember correctly, you were thinking about whether to keep the car or not the past few months, decided to save it and restore rather then letting it go. Anyways, although I don't think I did anything more then lurk in the doorway of your postings, let me Congratulate you on the car. It looks like it has some very nice items from the period. Keep LOTS of photos as you restore the car. the last car we pulled down within this month, we took about 400 digital photos as we progressed which I look at as a minimum. Do the same as you tear down. It helps with historical reference and just makes it easier as things progress to see what you have done as well as putting things back together where no one else has documentation.


BTW: The knob to teh far right on the lower portion is for windscreen washer jets. It is a hand pump, none of these fancy electric pumps for the MGA!


Merry Christmas,

-BMC.
BMC Brian McCullough

Congrats on your Xmas present. Glad it arrived safely.

The knob you've got circled is the demister control.

Send me an email, or post it on the BBS and I can help you out with another present.

TTFN
Derek Nicholson

Thanks Brian,

Yeah, that was me. Financially I made the wrong decision, but I just wanted this car, especially since I remember riding in it when I was four. So far all the mechanicals seem extremely easy to work with, and that's coming from someone that had to search the Internet to find out where my PCV valve and fuel filter were on my 1998 Toyota so I could do a tune up. :)

If I do try a frame-up paint job, which I don't know if I will as I've never done any bodywork before, I was thinking of painting it British racing green.

By the way, I think that the washer pump is to the right of the choke. The one I was talking about is below the knob marked "C."

Merry Christmas,

Darian
Darian Henderson

Hi Derek,

Thanks for the info. I didn't understand right away what you meant, then I remembered that this car is British...

I've linked my email address.

Darian
Darian Henderson

Since you haven't even driven it yet, I would advise against a full restoration. It always starts out with the best of intentions, but more often than not the car is still apart after 15 years. I would start by getting it running and making it safe. Rebuild the braking system, replace the fuel hoses, etc. Once it runs, drive it around for a while before you start pulling things apart. You may decide as I have that you would rather drive a ratty old MGA than look at boxes of parts for half of your life.

Whatever path you choose, best of luck! I'm happy you got the car you wanted.
Steve Simmons

Steve is right. Get it into driving condition and enjoy it. Fix safety related things and save the restoration for when you are financially and mentally ready otherwise you run the risk of having to bail and sell the car only to regret it later. (How do I know this...One word YD3/1423!)

Rich
Rich McKIe

Congratulations. It's your dad's car, it costs what it costs.
Del Rawlins

Steve, How about I trade you about $10,000 for your old ratty MGA. I have seen the white MGA you drive. I would hate for you to put up with such a old cruddy car that I will force myself to take it off your hands. Who knows, maybe your wife will thank me for getting rid of at least one the MG's in your stable.
JEFF BECKER

Thanks for the advice. My original plan has always been to just get it running for now. It's just that the paint is so bad that, well, it's kind of embarrassing. It looks better in the pictures, but it's flaking off in places and about half the metal in the cockpit is brown.

On the up side, it's all surface rust. No holes as far as I can tell.

Since I can't afford to paint it and the original paint is falling off, how bad would it be to just spray some white primer over it? I know it will bubble up in a year, but I have to strip it eventually anyway.
Darian Henderson

Congratulations on saving the car! For the body rust, for now, just pick a spot and wire brush the heck out of it, then paint with a color you can live with. For instance, find the worst spot on the floorboards that are flaking and rusting. Do the wire brush on a drill or angle grinder thing, vacuum up all the dust and flakes, and brush on some enamel. Let it dry for a couple of days and do the next worst spot. Pretty soon, it will all be protected for a year or so. On the outside, do the same thing, but use a spray can.

If and when you do a detailed restoration, you will have a lot more to work with. Once you start to drive and enjoy the car, you'll have an evening or so a week to have fun doing what needs to be done the most. Make it a hobby or an obsession, but don't just let it sit and rot any more. Every little thing you do for the car adds up. And we'll be here to cheer you on if you get discouraged.

Merry Christmas!
Tom

Well Jeff, I was really talking about my state of mind rather than my MGA specifically. However, I have been driving my "ratty old MGB" for nearly 20 years now. It has well over 300,000 miles and has never been disassembled beyond routine maintenance. The reason for this is...

I'd rather drive my ratty old MGB than look at boxes of parts! ;)
Steve Simmons

Hi Darrian,

Xmas (reading) presents inbound.

IMHO, it's always a good idea to get the car running even if you plan to strip it down for a rebuild. It'll let you determine if the engine is in need of a complete rebuild. Same for the instruments,steering, gearbox, rear axle & driveshaft. It makes sense to redo the brake & clutch hydraulics after all these years of sitting. All the seals are likely rather crispy. This is work you'd be doing anyway. Also do a very careful inspection of the brake lines for signs of corrosion. There's also the possibility of internal corrosion in the brake lines. It is possible that seals that don't leak at initial startup, start to leak after a little running time. Engine, gearbox, rear axle. Don't forget, they've been sitting and might not be too pliable any more.

Another benefit to getting it running and driving it a bit, is that you might not enjoy (highly unlikely) the driving experience. But at least you'll find out before spending vast amounts of time and money doing a ground-up restoration only to discover this. Or never finish the restoration and trying to sell it as a partially completed "project".

Merry Xmas.

Derek Nicholson

Thanks for the reading, Tom. I'll definitely look at all that. I read the painting one; he makes the painting look so easy.

I may follow your advice, Tom, since (almost) anything would be better than the paint in it's current condition.
Darian Henderson

Well, except that it's Derek, you're welcome. Been into the eggnog already?

Happy reading.

Derek Nicholson

That's embarrassing. Sorry about that Derek. No eggnog, just trying to do a bunch of things at once before Christmas.

Thanks again,

Darian
Darian Henderson

Well done,it's the right thing to do. I hope my son (who is in Winnipeg at the moment)wants, and looks after my 'A' when I'm gone.
Nigel Munford

DL,
I hope it is a satisfying adventure, it will be more so if you don't make it too important. Your car has great potential. You will come to really appreciate that cross-flow head.

I would also want to do something to make it more presentable in the short-run. I see no problem with an intermittent cheap or DIY (do-it-yourself) paint job. If you paint my only caution would be to be sure the fenders are loosened and the fender bead removed before it is painted. If you don't it will be a mess and you will always regret it

Best wishes. Merry Chrismas to all.
Steve.
Steve Meline

Hi Steve,

Thanks. Just one comment, though, as I've been wondering about this myself.

"If you paint my only caution would be to be sure the fenders are loosened and the fender bead removed before it is painted. If you don't it will be a mess and you will always regret it"

I've heard this before. The paint is supposed to be original, but if you look here, it looks like the fender bead was painted over already:

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1851/trunkvh3.jpg

By the way, I'm waiting for my shop manual to arrive in the mail. In the meantime does anyone know what these two tubes are for and if they are essential to operation? I believe they are for the heater for the cockpit, which if true isn't a top priority for Texas. It looks like something is missing that they connect to. Anyway, the reason I ask is that the one I circled in yellow is pretty cracked.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9242/firewall2qa8.jpg

Anyone have any good advice how to unstick choke, starter and I think clutch cables that are rusted shut? I'd rather not have to pay to replace them.

Thanks and Merry Christmas. (I'm waiting for my kids to go to sleep so I can morph into Santa.)
Darian Henderson

Difference in color between boot inside and body outside, combined with paint over piping, means it has been repainted on the outside.

The 1/2" rubber hoses are for heater water. Heater hoses are cheap local source items, by the foot.

Choke and starter cables are both pull cables with bonded knobs. Disconnect the output end, remove nut behind panel, pull cable out. Flex the cable around a lot (without kinking it) to see if the dirt and rust will break up enough to allow withdrawl of the inner wire. If not, soak cable in mineral spirits or kerosene for a while until it can be disassembled. If it doesn't come apart you have to buy a new one. If it does come apart, wire wool buff the inner wire to clean and smooth it, apply some oil and reassemble.

Be aware that the choke cable has a twist-lock feature with a spring leaf and small steel ball to lock the spindle. Do not lose the little bits when you disassemble it. The knobs can be replaced or refinished, see here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/dash/dt103.htm
Barney Gaylord

Yes those are heater hoses. If you want to eliminate the heater run a new hose from under the carb to the 1/2 inch copper line on other side. Otherwise just replace the hoses.
If there is paint on the fender welting it has been repainted. The welting was originally silver in color.
The size of your posted pics are too small. the under hood shot is big enough to see stuff the others are too small to help as much.
Choke and starter cables could be sprayed repeatedly and left soaking with a rust penetrant. There is no clutch cable it is operated hydraulically.
R J Brown

Thanks, I really appreciate it. I feel like a kid learning to walk with this stuff...

Hopefully these pictures are easier to see. I was trying to keep the size down.

Darian

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6241/dashhn0.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/1175/frontwm1.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/9627/knob2dc6.jpg

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6236/trunkgw7.jpg
Darian Henderson

The new to you car might take away a bit of your TV viewing time, but that's not really a bad thing. Protect it and make it run and stop for now, pick a project and do it a step at a time, you'll have a nice car one of these days.

I wish my wife would give me a ratty old sports car every year for Christmas. Who needs another sweater?

Merry Christmas to all!
Tom

Are my eyes deceiving me or is that a cross-flow head on the car? If so, a valuable after market extra.

Steve
MG
Steve Gyles

Yes, that a cross-flow head. Darian mentions it at the top of the post. Now if I'm not mistaken, the only one available from that period would be the Derrington.

Merry Xmas to all.

Derek Nicholson

Derek

Yes, you are right, missed that.

But perhaps Darian, being a non-MGA man at the moment, does not realise the significance of being the owner of such a sought after bit of kit.

Get your car painted Darian, you have an interesting MGA there.

Steve
Steve Gyles

You wouldn't believe what a difference in comfort new carpet and seat kits would make when driving the car. Once you get it safe, I would consider these items.

Lucky on the cross flow head! That is indeed a neat item.
Steve Simmons

Darain, where in TX do you live?
Scott
Scott Shirk

Hi Scott, I'm in San Antonio. How about you?

Darian
Darian Henderson

Darian

When you start the "touch-up" painting effort after sanding to get rid of most of the rust use a phosphoric acid based "rust converter" (Ospho is one such, available at marine hardware stores). Phosphoric acid converts iron oxide to iron phosphate. This will remove any "kernal" of iron oxide that could start the rust process all over again and, with a decent paint, protect the metal until you are ready to do a complete repaint.

When you get closer to redoing the body work, if you are interested in doing it yourself, check around and see if there is a local night school course in auto-body repair. I am enrolled in one that includes an excellent instuctor, all the tools you will ever need, and a complete paint booth.

Larry
58A
69 C in restoration
Larry Hallanger

Darian--
Ordering the shop manual was a good first move.
When I got my A, I remember how hot I was to get in and start pulling things apart. My plans and goals for it changed a lot the more I learned about it. So I would add to the all excellent advice above: take your time.
It's easy to mess parts up if you don't know how to remove them, toss things you'll later need, or make changes you have to undo--or can't undo.
Reading about the A's history, about how it was put together, what parts are available now, etc. will help you plan what do with it. That engine could have all kinds of modifications, and you want to know their good and bad consequences as well as their historic significance.
Whether you go on to customize the car, or opt to return it to its original condition, the more you know when you start on it, the more fun you'll have doing it and the more you'll like what you end up with.
Congratulations--that looks like a great car.
John V.
John Vallely

Darian, - I keep forgetting to suggest an item for your wish list. Since you have the cross flow head with carbs on the right, you might think about sourcing a left handed heater box, mga twin cam style, with the air inlet on the left so you can hook up the air inlet duct.
Barney Gaylord

Looking at the pics makes me want to clean everything. Once it's got all the fly doodoo off of it, things will look a lot more enticing. Since it's white, a little touchup spray here and there will do wonders. Don't make a showcar out of it just yet. It will be just as much fun to drive as a 20 footer, and you won't die if you get a door ding or rock chip. The paint might even shine with a little rubbing. Wish it was mine.
Tom

Hi Darian,

Your "new" car will give you many hours of fun. You might contact one or two MG Clubs in Texas as they will have lots of knowledgable people willing to drink your beer and give you free advice on getting your car running again.

I know there is one in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, esass@cola.org, www.tmgr.org, and Houston, ron@5RRestorations.com, www,houstonmgcarclub.org, but not sure about the San Antonio area. Talk to Ed Sass 817 685 5906, as he will surely know.

Also suggest you get a parts book from Scarborough Faire, Moss Motors, or Victoria British to look at as these will explain how the parts fit and give tips on replacing etc. A parts book is invaluable as a reference for part assembly and location, etc, with better illustrations than you get in the workshop manual (photographs).

All the best, and if you have a week to 10 days in July for holiday, we would love to see you and your car in Whistler, BC. Check out www.GT32.com

All the best, Peter.
P. Tilbury

Yup, there is an MG club in San Antonio, the Alamo MG Association. http://clubs.hemmings.com/frameset.cfm?club=alamomg
It is an active group of knowledgable people. Join the club and swap a few beers. It may be the best investment you ever make for your MG.

Get the free catalogs from all of these sources:
www.clarkespares.com
www.mossmotors.com
www.VictoriaBritish.com
www.scarboroughfaire.4mg.com (watch out for the pop-ups on the free server)

Allocate some time for at least sampling over 1000 web pages of MG tech information here: http://MGAguru.com
Also enjoy the stories, photos, capers, and links to every known MGA specific web page in the world (forever searching). It is well worth the price of admission (all free).

Check out the book list here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/books
I heartily recommend "Original MGA". It is eye candy with lots of glossy pictures as well as being a nifty reference to (most) things original for the MGA.
Barney Gaylord

Hi Barney, thanks for the advice with the heater box, I will do that eventually. I've seen your page, it's excellent.

I've already joined the local Alamo MG club. It was the first thing I did after I titled the car.
Darian Henderson

By the way, I talked to my dad today and other parts include:

* 3/4 racing cam AEH 714
* closed ratio MG optional transmission
* light alloy flywheel
* heavy duty valve spring from a Healy
* the engine's been statically balanced
* oil cooler
* the cross flow head is a HRG Barrington
Darian Henderson

PS Whistler sounds fun. If I'm ever there I'll definitely stop by.
Darian Henderson

Damned nice list of goodies you've got there. Remember to congratulate your father for his good taste. Maybe you'd better check that you haven't got 4 wheel disks and an LSD, too.

Derek Nicholson

Nope, it's got drum breaks in the back, disks in the front.

The more I learn about this car the more I like it. I just dread the day I have to try to paint the thing. Seems like an injustice not to, though.
Darian Henderson

The dirty little secret to painting, is that you can almost paint with a push broom and still get a quality job. It is just a matter of how much hand sanding and polishing you are willing to do. There is nothing magic about it; just good old fashioned elbow grease. The most important part where old cars are concerned, is that every bit of rust must first be excised, or you are wasting your time.
Del Rawlins

Regarding the painting, What Del is talking about I believe is called Coach painting. If finished correctly, it is a beautiful thing.

I have been following another BBS for a few months

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2655425&page=0&fpart=52&vc=1

where they are using Rustoleum and/or Brightside boat paint and getting great results after color sanding and polishing. They promote using small rollers to apply the paint. With rolling the paint on, there is no overspray. It sounds very interesting. If I were to be doing a daily driver, I might consider this. You might want to take a look and see if this is a bit less daunting a process for you.

Chuck
Chuck Schaefer

DL,

It takes about 50-75 hours to tear various cars down to the frame. Less if you rush and dont document anything. Reassembly takes a few hundred to a few thousand- depends on how well you want it. Also, costs lots of money.

I don't care how aweful it looks, having a car torn apart in storage or your garage for years is depressing. Restoring a car and not knowing how it feels will make it potentially a poor first drive. Yes, restoring it just the way your Dad had it is good, but most people wouldn't mind change to keep up with the times and to make it nice to drive in modern traffic- potentially more safe that way too.

-BMC.
BMC Brian McCullough

I hear you Brian, but have you seen the pictures? It's pretty rough. But as someone else said, it might look better once I wash it and touch it up with primer.
Darian Henderson

Darian,
Your car is in much better shape than mine was. Mine had been wrecked prior to being left to sit for 25 years. I went for function first, and did the body and paint last. You will need to redo the entire brake system, including the clutch hydraulics. Once you get it to run, you will need to be able to stop! I also found that all of the rubber parts in the front suspension were rotted, or else hard as rocks. Even after rebuilding the front suspension and steering, it drove awful. Then I replaced the old rotting bias ply tires with a new set of radials, and the difference was amazing. If you are going to use it for a driver, just fix as needed, and enjoy driving it. If you are making a show car, strip it down and spend the next few years, and lots of cash making something you will be afraid to drive lest you get a ding in the paint, or dirt on the running gear. I oped for the driver, and we have put 15,000 miles on it in the last 4 years, and have enjoyed every one of them.
Ed Bell

Ed, I definitely want the driver, but I'd also like something that looks good going down the road.

Just curious, since you wanted a driver, how much did you spend on the paint job?
Darian Henderson

Darian,
There was extensive body damage to be fixed first. The right side from the front wheel to the rear wheel was flattened, the nose was pushed in about 6 inches, and the rest of the car had various dings and dents. I have a friend who does street rods, and I talked him into doing the MGA. He had to piece two front fenders to make one good one, we had an old door that was better than the one on the car, and he was able to repair all of the other damaged parts. He painted it with PPG paint. Three coats of color, and several coats of clear on top. The end result gets comments where ever I go. His total bill to me was $4,000.
Ed Bell

Thanks Ed. Since you have a driver, was it necessary to pull the body off the frame to paint it? The reason I ask is because of rust. I don't care what the paint looks like where I can't see it, but if it's just going to rust again, that's definitely not good...
Darian Henderson

Darian,
No, I did not take the body off of the frame. The car had been well undercoated when new, and there was no rust in the sills, or frame, and only surface rust on the body where the paint had flaked off in other areas. The most rust was between the fenders and the body. I removed all of the fenders,doors, hood, boot lid and floorboards. Then I had the body and all of the parts media blasted to remove the paint. Then I painted all of the frame that was exposed and the inside of the fenders with POR-15. After painting the fenders, I undercoated them again. It worked for the first 40 years, so I expect it to last another 40 years. Especially as it mostly goes out on nice days. But, I am not afraid to get caught out in the rain, as I feel all is well protected from the elements. I put a new top on as well and it doesn't leak at all. I bought it from The Little British Car Co. I got the one with a zip out rear window. That is the only way to go. Sort of a long answer to your question, but too much information is easier to deal with than not enough.
Ed Bell

Thanks, Ed, that's exactly what I was looking for. My car's got a lot of surface rust, but since it was never really driven in snow, etc, as far as I know it's just that - on the surface. It's good to know I don't need to take the whole thing apart.

Thanks again,

Darian
Darian Henderson

Darian

I was keeping out of commenting on body refurbishment as there are many out there with much better advice. However, picking up on Ed's latest post and as you are new to the MGA, a word of caution on blasting. If you haven't noticed already, be aware that the doors, boot and bonnet (UK terminology) are skinned with aluminum.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Steve,
You are right about being careful with the blasting. I had it done with plastic media. Even then, you need to let them know about the Aluminum parts.
Ed Bell

This thread was discussed between 24/12/2006 and 31/12/2006

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