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MG MGA - Cranks like crazy now

Hi folks. I have been having problems lately with my engine cranking slowly. The starter was rebuilt during my engine overhaul 2 years ago, so it was not the problem. The Battery was fully charged, posts were clean, and this was not the problem. The battery terminals were recently replaced, and were clean and tight and were not the problem. The engine ground strap was clean and tight and was not the problem. The starter switch and switch connections were tight and clean, and were not the problem. What was the problem? I am embarrassed to tell!!! Back in 1980, on my trip from Ontario to Nova Scotia, the battery cable that I forgot to secure to the frame, "migrated" over to the driveshaft. The Ujoint then cut clean through the main battery cable, killing the entire electical system. At the side of the street, in Lunenburg Nova Scotia, I purchased a battery cable splice and installed it, and wrapped it with tape. The splice was a success, and the car has run 25 years with it in place! However, when I unwrapped the splice, it was COVERED with green and white powdery deposits! BINGO. So I removed the entire long battery cable, and made a new one out of Heavy Duty welding cable! This cable has many, many thin strands of solid copper wire inside. The original MGA cable has relatively few strands of thick solid copper wires inside. As an observation, my MGA has NEVER cranked so fast!!! The new heavy duty cable has made a HUGE improvement in cranking speed! My friend Terry just finished rebuilding his 1600, and installed a rebuilt starter and new (but stock) battery cables. His MG doesnt crank nearly as quickly as mine does. Both our engines were rebuilt about two years ago, and both have excellent compression. So if anyone wants to upgrade engine cranking speed, I suspect replacing the stock battery cable with welding wire is probably the way to go. I couldnt find a suitable cable end to fit to the welding wire. So I got a piece of 3/8 inch copper tubing, and cut off a 1.25 inch length. I flattened one end and drilled a hole in it that would fit the starter switch terminal. I then bared the welding wire, pushed it into the unflattened open end of the copper pipe. I then took a dull cold chisel and crimped the wire (lengthwise) into the copper tube. This home made electrical connector works fine! Cheers, Glenn
Glenn

I rewired my motor home's starting system with similar welding spec material a few years ago. The welding supply shop where I bought the cable had the "eyelet" ends I needed, and any auto supply will have the ends that attach to the battery as replacements for bad ones on any cable.

As an aside, has anyone tried one of these starters shown on ebay? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Modern-Starter-Triumph-Spitfire-GT6-MG-TD-TF-MGB-MGA_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ10076QQitemZ4570137593QQrdZ1 They seem ot have one listed all the time. I haven't tried one, but have seen similar ones retrofitted to airplane engines with great success.
Chuck Asbury

When I opened this thread I was suprised it wasn't in poem form. :)
Steve Simmons

Glenn,
Good work, but you should solder the wire into your connector also. Else it will sooner or later work its way out and/or corrode. Real connectors have a small hole drilled at the end of the wire "socket" to feed the solder into. Heat the outside of the connector with propane torch and feed rosin core solder through the hole. Not a bad idea to put some shrink tubing over the wire to connector junction either.
FRM
FR Millmore

The starter on E-bay looks like a Nippon Denso starter like what is used on all Toyota and some other Japanese vehicles with an adapter to fit the bmc engines. The only thing that goes wrong with N/D starters on a regular basis is the contacts inside and they are avalable and cheap. Does any one know how many kw the starter is rated for N/D make many different "power levels" ?
Randy
R J Brown

Hi F. R. I thought about soldering the connection, but was afraid that I would burn the insulation. The original cable was only crimped, and not soldered, so I am hoping my home brew job will do. The crimp I made seems VERY effective! I tried pulling the end off the cable using vise grips, and it is on there to stay. If I note any problems in the future, I will drill a hole in the fitting, and solder the sucker! Thanks again! GLenn
Glenn


Hi Steve! Whaddaya mean? Here's the poem, right here: lol


STARTER CABLE FIX

The problem was difficulty electrically cranking
The metal hand crank I now have to be thanking

Used the hand crank for several days running
Awed the spectators with my dexterous cunning

My MGA had been cranking very slowly
Stock battery cable was indeed pretty lowly

Cable in question had a corroded splice
Tracking down the problem was not a slice

Hand fabricated a cool and upgraded cable
Using stranded stuff with a welding wire label

Made a starter switch fitting from an old copper pipe
Was quite cheap to make, and therefore can’t gripe

Crimped the fitting onto the wire
F.R. Millmore perhaps I should hire

To solder the fitting without doing harm
Burning insulation? No need for alarm

Installed the new cable on my old MGA
Now with great pleasure I can safely say

My MG now frankly cranks better than ever
Go back to a stock cable? my answer: NEVER.
Glenn

Glenn,
Guess how I know they pull out? The factory crimp is done with a LOT of pressure, enough to deform the strands into a near-solid. Your straight chisel crimp is tight, but with everything parallel strands move bit by bit. The tiny and flexible strands especially are prone to pulling out if there is a bend near the connector, since there is a largish tensile load on the outside of the bend. I have watched them creep over a period of several days, after saying exactly what you said. You can bend the cable sharply near the connector, and when you let go the connector will likely be at an angle to the cable, due to creep. (Don't do it to your "real" one!) When I have to make one, I use a ball-ended punch to deform the connector and strands so they have to go around the indentation to get out. To be sure, it's more of a problem on something that gets moved around, like, uh, welding cables! Problem is that once it gathers dirt, oxides, and oil, you can't solder it.
FRM
FR Millmore

Glenn,I have everything the same as you (new rebuild,new bat,new weld cable,new terminals,gd ground,and a good starter) but if I turn the engine WITHOUT the spark plug it spins freely. When the plugs are in I can bearly get ONE revolution of the fan. What's happening. PS: where did you ground the postive side of your battery.(to what place one the car)
Gordon

Yes!
The gear reduction starter is wonderful.
Quiet. Has [shock] ball bearings.
Cranks fast.
1/2 the weight.

Sse Dr. Martin G. Ferrillo 102 Brixton Rd. South at; DrMarty@BritishStarters.com

Safety Fast
Dwight
Dwight

Don't try this at home !!!!

I bypassed the starter solenoid with the battery disconnected.
i.e. connected the starter directly to the battery, by joining the two cables.

When I connected the battery (huge spark) it cranked over (with plugs in) at least three as fast.

Solution, new starter solenoid from Moss UK...
When I fitted it, it was significantly better, but still no where near as good as the direct connect.

There are reports (Barnie's site) of faulty Solenoids also.

Glenn is right though that a bigger cable supplies more current, as my high compression (11:1) MGB race engine required this upgrade. Nice Poem too... LOL...

Gordon, if it's hard to start with the plugs in you may have too much timing advance which also does not help either.

My 0.02c worth.
Cheers <MARK>
PS when I say it was a huge spark I'm not joking either, so ware gloves and eye protection.
I have a single 12v battery.
Mark Hester

Hi F. R. When I was young and foolish, I would often ignore people with experience and good advice. This caused me much grief! Now that I am old and foolish, I tend to listen more carefully when people with experience speak! I think I will take your advice, drill a hole, and solder that connector on!! Damn the burnt insulation! Cheers and thanks, GLenn
Glenn

Mark, thank you. I read somewhere else that that might be a problem. I will give it a try tonight
Gordon

Glenn,
If you can find a starter shop in your neighborhood, you can usually get them to solder the lug. As an alternate, you can try a radiator shop, as they deal quite a bit with lead, or used to anyways.
Alternately, you can use a small propane torch on the lug while it is mounted cup end up in a vise and when it is hot enough, start pushing solder into the cup until it is full with the torch still on the cup. Then you take your tinned wire (heat the wire end while having a tin of flux nearby, and then push the wire into the flux and then apply solder to the wire.)and push it right into the cup full of hot solder.
Works great, and wont come loose.
mike parker

FOR SURE SOLDER THE CONNECTION! What you DON'T want to have happen is: ENGINE GROUND STRAP TOTALLY DISCONNECTS SO THAT THE ONLY PATH TO GROUND IS THROUGH THE CARBURETORS THROTTLE CABLE! Been there, done that, and VERY HOT THROTTLE CABLE! Got real lucky - no fire!
OLD BILL-67

This thread was discussed between 21/08/2005 and 31/08/2005

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