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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - tyres

Hi,
I'm finally ready for the MOT and need 4 new tyres for my IOW frog. It's not a track car or a firebreather but I like to drive fairly enthusiastically.
Looking at tyres, I have found a good price on Toyo 350's, Dunlop Street response and Yokohame A drives. Just wondered if anyone had experience of any of these.
Regards,

Andrew
aj robinson

Hi Andrew

where did you fond the A drives and in what size ? was looking for but couldnt find anywhere that had them , only the bluearth ones

Cheers
Andy
Andy Sebring

I was recommended to fit 175/60R13 77H YOKOHAMA A539 [5.5J x 13 inch wheels] as an 'everyday' road legal performance tyre.

My 120 bhp car is used both on the road and for track days but I am sure its the novice driver and not the tyres that are the limiting factor. They were bought from Event Tyres who fitted them at home.

Doug Plumb

Andrew,
if you can still get the Yokohama A-drives buy them they are very good tyres plenty of grip, I had them on previously

don't get the Toyo 350 they are what I have on my car now, the sidewalls are very upright, I've had to soften the dampers and drop the tyres pressure 2 psi compared with the Yokos

the Toyo 350 are not grippy, good fun to move the car around at lower speeds but take up too much of the roads when driving in a spirited manor

the bluearth have replaced the A-Drives I'd guess as the A-drives don't do so well on the tyre labeling that came out last November but ignore the tyre labeling as it shows the A-Drive and 350 to do about the same in those tests but the A-drives are a much better tyre (for a Spridget at least)

if I could afford it I'd remove my barely worn Toyo 350 and buy another set of Yoko A-drives to replace them

bear in mind different sizes of the same make and model of tyre can have slight differences, see manufacturers spec sheets, Toyo 350 is available but not sure about for A-drive

my tyre sizes - A-drive, 155/70/13 - Toyo 350, 155/80/13

see other threads in Archive, get the A-drives if you can
Nigel Atkins

Thanks everyone. My present tyres are 165/65 R13 and I'm thinking of going to 165/70 R13. Minator minilite replica wheels 5.5J I think.
Andy, I've found A drives on several websites in the size I want, but most places seem to have limited stock. Try Larkspeed and Mytyres.
aj robinson

Hi Andy, try clickontyres.co.uk
Regards,

Andrew
aj robinson

Andrew,
the rim-width and tyre size calculators and information on this web page, and the three other pages, might be of use and/or interest to you - http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible_pg4.html

the manufacturer also gives a range of suitable rim sizes against the model and size of tyre

(Minator minlite copies are often (but not always) 13", 5J on Spridgets)
Nigel Atkins

Thanks Nigel. I must admit I'm not entirely sure if the wheels are 5.5 or 5.
aj robinson

Andrew,
for 165/70/13 or 165/65/13 it wont matter if they're 5" or 5.5" as long as the car has clearance for the tyres or unless the tyre manufacturer specified different (not in this case)

as purely an example don't buy them, if you look in the 'Sizes and Specification' tab you'll see Toyo show their 'Approved Rim Width Range (inch)'

also note in the same width bands of tyres the actual width size varies as does the load and speed indexes and the tread depth - the sizes you see on the labels and sidewalls are nominal, tyres are a very complex subject, grip depends on the actual tyre rather than it's width

depending on its construction a 145/80/13 could have lots more grip than another model 165/65/13

http://www.toyo.co.uk/tire/pattern/350
Nigel Atkins

ordered yokohama a drives from clickontyres, good price.
Will give feedback once delivered
aj robinson

great stuff

if I'm telling you what you already know ignore me -

take it easy on the tyres for about the first 50 miles as they could be 'greasy' and up to 200 miles when damp/wet

check the torque on your wheel nuts after about 30 miles

I ran mine 2psi above Driver's Handbook settings but obviously this varies with cars and personal preferences, some drivers go up to +6psi, but I'd suggest staring at +2psi and increasing in +2psi steps until too hard then drop back 2psi

remember any new tyres should feel and preform better than part worn or worn or 'gone hard' with age and/or lack of use so give them a good few miles before making a final verdict on them - I'd be very surprised if you're not at the very least satisfied with them
Nigel Atkins

Hi Nigel, many thanks for the advice. I've never used clickontyres before and I'm hoping the tyres actually arrive! They were a superb price so I'm probably a bit sceptical!
aj robinson

Just heard that clickontyres can't get the Adrives, even though their website says they are available. Helpful guy though. Guess I'll try Larkspeed.
aj robinson

can't say I'm totally surprised about availability of the A-drives but someone might still have them, you can check the manufacture date (see that link) and as long as they've been stored correctly it doesn't matter

you could see if Yokohama UK can tell you where the last large batch of them went to

good luck
Nigel Atkins

Back in March Larkspeed were the only company I could find who still had A-Drives on their website but when I placed an order they said they were out of stock.

I would have gone for the replacement Blue Earths but I wanted them for track use and these are not on the MSA list yet. I could probably have got away with them as none of the scrutineers have looked at the tyres on my two outings so far!

I actually went of Toyo 350s. Sorry Nigel, I know you advised against but they were a good price and available very locally, unlike the favoured Yokohamas! I'm on 155/80/13s. I don't know how they compare with the competition, I just know they are vastly better that the cheapos fitted by the PO!

We are still experimenting with pressures and are currently set at 22lbs front, 24lbs rear. They grip well and are VERY squealy on smooth tarmac when cornering hard but they are reassuringly predictable. They don't let go suddenly but give good feedback through the wheel so you know what's going on and, so far, all four wheels have stayed on the track, even in the wet!

I'm sure there's quite a bit of time to be gained from improved grip so, finances permitting, next year I will have a set of Minilite clones wearing 165/65s - probably from Yokohama unless someone can recommend something grippier from list 1A!

Colin
Colin Mee

Colin,
the Toyo 350s aren't bad tyres just not as good on a Spridget as the A-drives

as I said the sidewalls seem very upright and hard, compared to the A-drives I had to drop the pressure (to 22,24 same as you and the good book) and soften the dampers (155/80/13 same as you)

the 350s allow plenty of side movement but a bit too much too soon for my liking, the A-drives kept things tighter will ease

as I put it's all about the particular tyre rather than size a good 145/80/13 could have more grip than another model at 175/65/13

if the A-drives are fully used up it'll be interesting to see what other tyre can take its place
Nigel Atkins

oponeo still have some and also tyrewizard, but only the 83T rated which are a bit more expensive. Limited stock though.
aj robinson

personally I'd have to think about those and what use they were designed the 83T is XL (extra load) suggesting heavier load use (vans perhaps?) which may perhaps effect the tyres characteristics and be less suitable for a light road going sports car

IIRC the 155/70/13 were 73T(?)

my present Toyo 350 155/80/13 are 79T

my heavier wife's car* is on 84H

the numbers are the load index and letter the speed rating, see towards the bottom of this page for details - http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html

* yes I do see the double meaning there
Nigel Atkins

Yokohama 2013 catalogue does not include A drives. The 2012 catalogue says 'ideal for compact cars' and'reinforced (extra load) indication for passenger car tyres designed for loads and inflation pressures higher than the standard version', which refers to the 83T load rating. Interesting, but nothing about vans
aj robinson

Anyone using the Dunlop Street response?
aj robinson

Nigel, re your comment "the 350s allow plenty of side movement but a bit too much too soon for my liking, the A-drives kept things tighter will ease".

I haven't driven the A-drives so I can't compare them but the pic would seem to support your view. This was at Triangle at Loton Park on my first outing in April with 26psi front and 28 rear - I was certainly getting some movement (the commentator described my style as 'Throwing it at the corner and praying it would get round!' On my second run in the wet he was much more complimentary about the way I caught the tail slide!)

On the last outing on a much hotter day and with more confidence I was getting more movement (and more roll - this time he wondered whether there would be any chrome left on the door handles at the end of the day - I put protective tape on for the second run just to appease him!) This time I was running 22psi front, 24 rear. While the tyres were sliding a bit and squealing a lot, the car felt much better and there was plenty of feedback so I knew just how far I could push things. After one run we checked tyre temperatures and there was a difference of several degrees across the width of the tyres with the outer shoulders being warmer than the inners. Negative camber trunnions would be well worth considering but I don't think they're allowed in Class 1. I suspect a wider tyre with a lower profile would spread the load more evenly and, hopefully, give me more grip.

While the Yokohamas are currently top of my wish list I'll be very interested to see any comments about the Dunlop Street Responses or any other candidates.

Colin


Colin Mee

Andrew,
the vans was just my guess at their possible use, small vans are light (empty) until they get, well, extra load but it sounds like they may be aimed at certain cars but not lightweight sports cars with the XL

I can't see them being as good in 83T (XL) as 73T (or whatever for the size you want) when fitted on an IOW Frog or Spridget

Colin,
I know less about racing than I do mechanics and that's nothing, I've only seen two hill climbs events, the first at Luton Park (where I was very surprised to see the course go across and was it down the hill(?)) and at Harewood House

the tracks didn't look that wide to me so I'd have thought (don't know) that the tyres need to keep the car fairly tight, the opposite to how the 350s feel to me

I can't see how the 350s are good for your hill climbing other than allowing a bit of flow as you go

that pic looks OK to me but I'm only used to road cars

as I put the 350 sidewalls seem very upright to me and for my road use on my car need the pressures lowering and dampers softening

I don't know but could it be that as small modern cars are not too wide but the centre of gravity is higher this is allowed for in these tyres

I love 'charging' up hill/mountain roads in the UK (and anywhere else I can get to) and the 350s wouldn't be my first choice of tyres based on my limited experience of an alternative
Nigel Atkins

Oponeo have the 79t so I've gone for them. Not many left apparently.
aj robinson

Andrew
You have made the right decision going for the Yok A Drives. I have been using them for three years and they are good in the wet and dry and wear well, especially the final 3-4mm of tread. (I use about one set a year)
Recently I couldnt get any A-Drives so I bought some Toyo 350s ....big mistake, the first time I drove round the block I went straight home because I thought I had left some wheel nuts loose !!
I have found that they need to be inflated to atleast 28psi to feel even reasonabley safe on the road. The grip in the dry is ok, but in the wet they are attrocious. I wouldnt buy the the 350 again, and as Nigel said if I had money to spare I would take them off and buy something else.
Also to confirm what Nigel said the 350s have an upright sidewall and when I measured the actual tread width that is in normal contact with the road; the 350's have 10mm less width in contact with the tarmac !! Psychologically bad for my head ! If any body wants to try Toyo 350s I have two unfitted tyres they could have !

Ian
Ian Webb '73 GAN5

That's a good offer! Anyone tried Dunlop Street Response tyres?
aj robinson

Ian,
good to get comments from the use of the tyres on Spridgets

you probably are harder on tyres with your use than the average Spridget road use

I don't think they're atrocious just might seem a lot worse when compared with the a.drives

funny thing is I didn't realise how good the a.drive were I knew they were very good but not how very good, I do now

I think as you get used to the 350s (and forget the a.drives) you get more used to the wet weather handling but it's no where near the wet weather handling of the a.drive

the 350s are not a bad tyre just they're not suited well to even slightly spirited driving in a Spridget but they will still be better than old and lack of use tyres kept for their tread depth left and the 350s brake well and progressively (in the dry at least, not tested them in the wet)

ETA: having put that even though you're only up the road from me I wouldn't collect those 350s from you
Nigel Atkins

As the much admired A-Drives have been discontinued, has anyone tried the replacements? I think they're called Blue Earth.

Colin
Colin Mee

just noticed on Camskill they have the continental eco contact (which I have in 175/70 13 on the Kmidget) and the goodyear duragrip which is on the g/f car in 175/60/14. The contis are great on the midget, and starting to get to the end of their life now. The goodyear was also very impressive but different car so not sure how relevant that is... I also had Michelin energy savers in 155/80/13 on the midget and they were also great, but very narrow looking.

But I'd recommend the continentals (got them on the back), and also Avon CR322 (on the front). I can't unstick the front at all, the back I can but is predictable and progressive feeling.

Anything with a name should be OK. I had toyos on the P6 and they were good, I now have nexxen (they are one of the only tyres left in 205/70/14) and they are awful in the wet, on the verge of dangerous.
Rob Armstrong

Yokos arrived today, from Germany I think. Labelled January and look brand new. very well packed from oponeo.
aj robinson

Colin,
I can't find the Yokohama illustration now but it showed the Blue Earth as being at the other end of the 'sports' range of the illustration

Andrew,
I hope after all your efforts you're not disappointed, I'm sure you wont be, if you want to know the exact age the DOT code on the tyres will tell you

being interesting to know, once you've got passed the 'greasy' stage, how you find them (allowing for the fact any new tyres should be better than any worn tyres)
Nigel Atkins

Thanks Nigel, hoping to MOT the car next week. Last time I had an advisory on one of the front wheel bearings...........but we won't go there!!!!
aj robinson

"the front wheel bearings...........but we won't go there!!!!"

Yes let's go there. LOL

Try the renovating trick. Mine passed the mot today, on a renovated outer front wheel bearing. :).
Lawrence Slater

I stuck with the standard 145 80 13 tyres as smaller ones effectively drops the gearing. The skinny tyres make harder cornering a bit twitchy but fine for what I use the car for. With highly tuned motors it might be different but its not the kind if motor to struggle with grip due to excessive grunt!
Robin Cohen

Hi Lawrence, unfortunately I do not have your engineering skills! I think the last MOT man (2 years ago) was a bit harsh, but all will be revealed shortly no doubt!
I am taking it to a guy who has a lot of experience with older cars, so fingers crossed.
aj robinson

Ha AJ, thanks for the compliment. I don't have my engineering skills either. lol.

All I did was grind some metal off the inner race, using some wet and dry paper. It could just as easily(more easily) be done by shortening the spacer a tad.
Lawrence Slater

Or I could ask for advice on which bearings to buy, don tin helmet and duck!!!!
aj robinson

Hi AJ,

How did you find the Yoko's please? I'm due a set and looking at those!

Ta
Brad
bk dyson

Hi Brad,

I used oponeo.co.uk. I think they came from Poland or Germany. I bought 165/70/R13 79T and I think there are some left. There are other sizes but 83T (see comments above on this thread).
Tested the car yesterday and liked the tyres but too early to really tell. MOT next week now that I have managed to sort the front wheel bearing! (Hope the MOT man agrees)
aj robinson

This thread was discussed between 18/06/2013 and 19/07/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.