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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Type 9 - 5 Speed conversion

Hi Guys,

My first post here, so hello!

I have recently come back to owning a RWA midget

I am interested in converting to 5 speed using a type 9 gearbox

The full kits from Frontline and the Morris Minor centre look expensive as complete kits.

Has anyone just bought a bellhousing and sourced the rest of the parts themselves, such as clutch etc?

I am mechanically savvy just wonder how difficult it is to track all the bits down

Cheers

Tim
A Davey

It's not hard to find the gearbox - you then have to change the clutch, but, that's not too hard either.

The biggest job is doing the backplate - and the cutting!

The other option is a toyota box - if you can't get a type 9, but, I'm pretty sure they are more expensive.

No, you don't need to source it via Frontline - and, probably easier (and loads cheaper) not to, but, they are getting harder to find ...
rachmacb

Hi Rachmacb,

I know where I can get a short input shaft type 9 gearbox so that part is ok, by backplate do you mean bellhousing?

I wasn't aware of anything involving the backplate

I would intend to buy the type 9 to A series bellhousing, it was the other bits, what clutch cover / driven plate do people use?

Is a short input shaft type 9 ok? Or do they use the longer type

Cheers
A Davey

There's loads and loads and loads of stuff in the archives about fitting them - to be honest, that's probably the best place to find everything and anything you will ever need (or not!) to know about it - including all the advantages/disadvantages of them.

It's where I always look!!!

Ebay is always a good place to start - and the caterham websites as well - I was put onto them very helpfully by John and they are way better than lots of other suppliers :)

Then there's the two that are for sale in Holland in General ;)!
rachmacb

I'm really confused now! What Caterham parts could be used? As I say the type 9 bit seems the easy bit as I can put my hands on one relatively quickly

Your right I will have to look deeper into the archives as I mustn't understand what bits are needed

The plan was:

Get this type 9 I know about

Buy a Frontline / MMC bellhousing (No other options I assume)

Try and save money by sourcing the rest of the bits needed

Cheers



Buy the other bits

A Davey

Hi Tim,

re the caterham websites that rachel mentions, they are more for k-conversions,

I put a type 9 into a 1275 midget a few years back as have a lot of people on here.

If I remember correctly, I bought the morris minor centre bellhousing, but not much else, theres easy/cheaper ways to source other bits.

where are you in the west mids? I'm in tamworth, feel free to email me and I'll send some pics of the bits and bobs that I did, you are also welcome to come over and see a type 9 in my nearly finished rwa car

John
John Collins

Rach has a 1500, they need a spacer block to attach to the type 9 and the Triumphy bell housing

MMC bell housing yes (a rumour I heard was that this is what FL sell on in their name, I simply dont know)

You will need to source

modified propshaft
Ford type clutch 165mm dia 23 spline driven plate (possibly early crossflow Escort or Fias...Fiesta)
[or have the flywheel redrilled for a larger clutch set up175/180mm, maybe]
a method of driving the clutch that wont grab on the sliding tube at the front on the input shaft
a floor mounted plate or crossmember assembly
a modified speedo drive

there's lots of info out here about the job

Caterhams use the type 9 with K-series engines and make and sell lots of useful stuff for K-types

Lots of people here have done the job, some like me, on the cheap

But it is likely there will be things MMC make and sell that will make life easier for you

bill sdgpm

Cheers John, Bill,

That's what I was wanting to hear,

Very kind of you John, I will take you up on that offer!

So as a start point do you have any idea of part numbers for the friction plate (assuming I keep my std Midget cover)

Does the MMC kit have the same gearbox mounting arrangement as the Frontline kit - or is that bit left for your to DIY (unlike the FL kit?)

I guess I am just trying to balance say £600 with VAT for the hassle free route but how much would I save sourcing my own parts - need to ask MMC how much just the bellhousing is

Cheers

A Davey

Tim

the engine back plate is perhaps the cheapest and easiest option when it comes to fitting the box.

a 10 or 12mm steel plate, drill a hole in the middle just big enough to fit the smaller of the two input shafts (midget or ford)

I'll assume the midget one is the smaller

Place the plate over the input shaft and draw around the outside of the bellhousing. Spray some easy to see paint into the mounting holes to make them easy to spot.

Remove the plate, and place the original midget back plate onto the outline - this will allow you to pick up the mounting holes to the engine and also the rear main and camshaft end plates/covers - also the starter motor hole.

Now place (drill if required) the plate over the ford input shaft and try lining as many holes up as possible between the sprayed markings and the ford bellhousing.

Using a different colour, mark the holes for the ford bellhousing onto the plate ensuring you keep it orientated the right way round and draw the outline once again.

Im guessing you know where to go from here with the appropriate drills, taps, plasma/grinder.

An hours work would have you a backplate suitable for adapting the midget engine to a ford box without having to spend a fortune with any of the above companies for parts.

Hope that helps

Pete
PeterJMoore

Hi Tim
Where are you in the mids?you are welcome to come and have a look at how I did my type 9 conversion on my rwa.
The worst bit is cutting a section of the floor away, the rest went as sweet as a nut exept for the slave cylinder,if possible DONT disconect it...
The kettle will be on.
Rob Newt

RWA = tax exempt?

Type 9 = cutting up the chasis

I wouldn't do it until that has been confirmed regarding affecting tax ...!
rachmacb

Tim,
I did my Type 9 / A series conversion in the late 1990's for £220.
The only specialist parts were the bell housing, crankshaft spigot and prop shaft, all from MMC. All other parts were either standard items from local motor factors (clutch driven plate) or I made myself (rear mounting, chassis reinforcement, speedometer drive, engine steady bar). Gearbox cost me £10 from scrapyard. I shortened the gearbox extension so that the gearlever is in the correct place, not back near the handbrake.

Other thoughts:
People criticise the low first gear on the Type 9 but who drives in first gear for any time at all? It is just to get you moving or if you are in a motorway tailback which isn't Spridget habitat! Don't worry about it!

I am sure Peter's explanation of making a back plate would work well, but I wouldn't want the penalty of keeping that Oh-so-heavy Ford CI bellhousing! Buy the proper aluminium casting from MMC. It is well made and mutch easier.

There were problems with the clutch release mechanism on the earlier bellhousings. I believe the design has since been adjusted and this may have solved this one. But a nicer engineering solution is to fit a concentric slave clutch release. This can be done for around £40, again if you can make some parts yourself. Otherwise, maybe £100.

Guy
Guy Weller

Hi Tim,

I have a complete (frontline) kit for sale, complete with prop shaft, bellhousing, two gearboxes, even the speedo cable.

Let me know if you're interested!

Cheers,

Eddy
Eddy Veuger

>>There were problems with the clutch release mechanism on the earlier bellhousings.<<

My Frontline conversion kit was purchased and fitted by them in October last year, I had problems with the clutch release mechanism

Perhaps they bundled in old kit that wouldn't surprise me

Tim I think you've found your answer with Eddy I think you'd do well to contact him
Nigel Atkins

Thanks for all the feedback,


Rach - I'm not sure what you mean about losing tax exemption?

Peter - I dont have a bellhousing and the most obvious one (that isn't the correct type 9 <> a series) is the Ally RS2000 which isn't cheap so wouldn't make sense to buy. The std cast iron one weighs about 10kg as well! But I agree if I had a bellhousing the adapter plate option would definately be a nice challenge and cheap.

Rob, again a very kind offer, I am M6 J7 and never turn down a chance to be nosey or a cuppa ;)

Eddy, I will send you an email, but the geography seems the first obstacle (in terms of cost)

I have found out the following costs for the bellhousing:

MMC £156 + Vat
FL £237.05 + Vat

FL state short input shaft only

MMC state 7" input shaft - which I thought was the length of the long input shaft, can anyone confirm what length input shaft they are using with the MMC bell housing?

Cheers
A Davey

You use the short input shaft on both - 7" (I just measured it on my spare box) If you get a long input shaft box you shorten it with a thin disk in angle grinder.

That is a big difference in cost. Does the FL one include the clutch pivot and lever perhaps?

Guy
Guy Weller

There is a new rule coming in regarding classic cars and how much you can adapt them, whilst keeping the tax exemption - including making any "cuts" into them.

Your best bet would be to actually speak to the people at DVLA or looking in the Classic Car magazines to get the exact amount you can change before it is turned into a "q"

If you do want the one that is in Holland, as I've just put on the general board, my friends with whom I'm "swapping" houses for car events are coming from there in August, and are going to be going to Santa Pod, so, a deal might be able to be made ... :)
rachmacb

Rach & Tim,

It seems like the geographical obstacle can be overcome ;-)
I can also get it to Newcastle as my dad makes this trip on regular basis, but it seems like Rach's offer makes more sense.

As I said on general (see post "flogging my gearbox"): I'm not looking for the highest bid, just want to get rid of the kit!

Drop me an email and see if we can work something out!

Cheers,

Eddy
Eddy Veuger

Eddy - I will get Roel to contact you directly then if that is ok?

Tim, if you are dire emergency, then I could let you have a type 9 gearbox and cable line only - the plate, as Pete says, is easy to make and buy Eddy's when it comes over - as I have no intention to take my engine out again before winter - even if it means that I will drive "too slow" when I am in Holland!
rachmacb

That'll be fine Rach!

Cheers,

Eddy
Eddy Veuger

This thread was discussed between 12/07/2010 and 19/07/2010

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