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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Tick over

High Guys,

Now the ignition works and the petrol is in the system and pumping I have at last managed to sort out the linkages, rusted pedal hinges etc. to be able to sit in the car, start it on the choke, catch it on the accelerator and rev it without using start ease. (yippee!).
However when I have to start to push the choke in for fear of it choking to a stop (and it does if I leave it out even a bit) I can't get the engine to run on just the throttle. Is that because I have the air filters off still do you think?
I have read somewhere, I am sure, that the filters off can affect tick over and maybe cause misfire however I can't find the thread now. Just to be sure I am telling you everything the rev counter does not work at all although every thing else does (except I havn't checked the heater fan circuit oops now I have given it complete thought)and I have read somewhere I think that no rev counter working can affect the electrical side / is a symptom of something as well as people saying its irrelevant. I don't want to change any more than I have to as changing more than one thing at a time complicates things too much for my poor old head.

All suggestions most welcome as well as the 'look at thread xyz!' I am sure the answer to the above is in the archive somewhere but maybe I am searching for the wrong thing.

Thanks in advance,
Dave
Dave Squire - Notts

Have found thread and read up and yes it says put the air cleaners on. (causes the inflow pressure to be correct / causes some back pressure?). After much wondering how to do it with only one pair of hands it is sorted and the engine ticks over. A bit rough but that is probably cos it needs to run for a bit and newer petrol to be in the tank. As I can't take car out of the garage yet I am sorting an extended tailpipe out through roof (just plastic sheeting) for exhaust today.



Dave Squire - Notts

Has the dash or tacho been removed? If so, the tacho not working could be a reversed connection on the tacho induction loop.
You really need to get the engine up to temperature before tuning, so good luck with the exhaust extraction system:+)
Graham.
Graham P

Adding air filters will enrich the mixture, so I'd guess your mixture is too lean. Try turning the jet adjusting nuts down one turn and see if it makes a difference.
Growler

Hi Guys,

Graham: There is a bit of a mess with some of the wiring from PO so good idea. Found heater fan is not working and bulb missing from interior light fitting. So if there is a fuse out it may be that but had quick look under dash (yeuch). Horn on seperate switch and jerry rigged wireing. Found correct wiring diagram when sorting low tension for starting, so now for some real fun, electrics are my favorite aspect of the car (honest).

Growler: Petrol in tank about 10 years old and about 5 litres of it left so could be that its the old petrol is the problem. What you suggest makes sense. I plan to burn off the existing fuel, (it will test everything up to running temp hopefully), and add Shell V-Power when almost empty. If its still rough after that I thought I would try your advice before anything else.

Thank you both, if I can't squeeze the time this week in the evenings I will be having a go next weekend.

Cheers, Dave
Dave Squire - Notts

Air filters will have the faintest & imperceptible effect at tickover (unless they are hopelessly filthy), though effects are greater at top end. You do not have throttles set correctly, and probably do not have fast idle set at all. It should idle at 1500 with the choke out 5/8", and should run like that until you empty the fuel tank.
You may have timing late or a vacuum leak which would have similar effects, or make things worse.

If you do not have WSM, get one.

There are zillions of threads and videos available, John Twist's among them

FRM
FR Millmore

You're lucky to be able to start it. Fuel loses it's octane rating over time,and is usually considered useless after about a year. With a partially filled tank condensation also has a detrimental effect. The Easystart just upped the octane rating temporarily, so my advice would be to drain the system and refill with fresh Shell before you do anything else.
F Pollock

Hi FRM,

WSM?

Could be:
Winchester Short Magnum
Worlds strongest man
Workers solidarity movement
Weapons system matrix
Web systems management
Woman seeking man

Lots more listed on interweb but some too raunchy to list. However can't find any refering to tools, cars or midgets, (the car type). (Sorry its the West Midlander boy in me coming out. Humour from the Black Country is eccentric even by British standards by the way).

However after the light hearted bit, I am genuinely listening and if its helpful I'm interested so please define WSM for future reference.

Now you have mentioned it; I will have poor vacuum after 10 years lay up and no changes to anything under the bonnet. I have put all fuel and ignition system hoses and pipes on my list for replacement.

Thanks very much, Dave
Dave Squire - Notts

FRM,

PS as fuel is more corosive these days which hoses / suppliers do you recommend?

Thanks again, Dave
Dave Squire - Notts

WSM? I was thinking a Woolley Spider Monkey. An invaluable assistant for getting into those hard to get places, handing you tools and all those grimmey jobs. Just don't give it your car keys.

Could be a WorkShop Manual. :)
Greg H

Thanks Greg,

Your wsm sounds great to have as my only other hands are HTWBO. Reckon it would be better than my wsm or my interpretation of these parts of it anyways.

Thanks, Dave

PS like the pic of your car by the way looks like either its gonna be great or is great now its finished?
Dave Squire - Notts

Thanks Dave. No not finished yet. It should have been finished but I had a few problems with the bodywork and lost interest in it for a bit. Summers on its way now for me so I've decided to just get it on the road and fix things up later. I should be nice when it's done, although it would have bean a lot cheaper and eaiser to have put it in the bin and bought one already restored. Sentimentality can be very expensive.
Greg H

Dave-
Well Some Might do...
Wild Sexy Mama?
Wild Sexy Mama Woman seeking man Woolley Spider Monkey Weapons system matrix?
Sounds like a party, yes?
but Work Shop Manual is good.

Octane has little to do with starting, and in fact is the opposite of what is needed for starting. It is the low vapour pressure components that evaporate, and which give easy starts - made higher for winter fuel.
There was a time when fuel went off in a few weeks, but at least here, that has been fixed - I now have no problem with cars that have been sitting more than 3 years with the fuel in the tanks.

I have read comments about UK fuel hoses dissolving, but we haven't had that problem. Our fuel hoses all are marked with appropriate SAE ratings, and I would expect you have equivalent BS or DIN specs printed on the hose - no marks, no use. The hoses are continually being re rated as fuels and usage change; I recently found that the hose for in tank pumps has a special designation, and costs about $4 per inch - fortunately you only need about 3 inches, but the parts stores don't know about it and don't have it, so you have to order it in 3 foot lots - GRRR. Cheaper by the length, but came out to $50 for three feet, but I only needed 3 inches. Has to do with the outside of the hose dissolving when submerges.

FRM
FR Millmore

FRM;

Starting: Yes, the evaporation makes sense to me for starting and now I have the LT and HT sorted and it has started a few times I have every confidence it will start with present fuel every time. (feels just like my old moggie 1000 from the 70s when turning over on start up - great!).

Hoses; Same continual change at break neck speed is a problem over here as well particularly as the Health and Safety lobby increase their influence and 'ban' stuff and working practices. Thanks for background, hadn't thought of the outer working environment and outer construction as well as the fuel pipe lining.

Greg;

Mine is a definate get it on the road and fix things. Its a time pit. Looks terrible compared to yours but was my wifes family's. Her brother gave it to me as he couldn't sell it and was gone too far physically to fix it, (the trade was not interested), I was interested, (stupid boy), and he needed it gone from the garage he was renting. Keep finding things like jerry rigged electrics, Drivers door quarterlight frame broke and glass wrong size. Front valance from earlier version midget and all drain holes welded up. .......

The rest is two years of finding time and effort. So far actual fix bill is maybe £400 (including steel sheet and parts from Midget scrapper guy who buys up projects from time to time and is local - outer sills, hard top). Had the tools and welder from work projects so no extra cost there.

And so on and so on .... (It'l be great as day car though in these country lanes around here). Will never be as 'new' as yours though.

Cheers, Dave
Dave Squire - Notts

Good looks aren't cheap. My car this time around has cost me about $12k (about 8k GBP) and I already had the car! I stopped counting after about $11k as I decided I was too far committed not to finish it and I'd rather not know the final cost. $4500 was for painting but the remaining $7500 was just parts because apart from the painting I've done everything myself. So with your repair bill at 1/20 of mine you're doing very well.

I've had the car about 20 years and it hadn't been on the road for a very long time and because it'd waited so patiently for another day in the sun I thought it was only fair it got its chance. As I said sentimentality can be very expensive. Your brother in law sounds like a very smart man.
Greg H

having had fuel hoses distress changes from varoius suppliers (i.e. fuel leaking out of hose whilst driving) for the last 6 years and tens of thousands of miles I say in the UK it's p*ss poor quality of fuel hoses rather than fuel related

I found the modern 6mm Goodyearfuel line to be fine and a better fit to the carbs

rubbish rubber - seals, TRE boots, steering rack gaiters, drop links, ect.

all this talk of modern devil petrol reminds me of the talk around what damage unleaded fuel would do to our classics and 20 years later we're still aiting for the rumours to be true
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 28/07/2012 and 30/07/2012

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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