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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Thermostat cover woes...Part 2 '

Hi Guys,
Update..
On my Mk 3 midget the thermostat cover and the studs appear to be well and truly stuck together.

In part 1 I used a chisel, a long thin screw driver, loads and loads ( really) of PB Buster and gentle persuasion with a BFH, but to no avail. Swearing didn't help either.
In part 2 , I took off the stud nuts and used a Blow lamp propane type burner thingy on all the studs in turn . Nothing happened.

So my question is , how long do I need to heat the studs / housing for? Do I need red heat or just Bl**dy hot?

If the Blow lamp type thing doesn't work, is it go to a garage with an oxy acet torch?

Grateful for any comments
cheers colin

colin frowen

My nightmares are coming back just reading this!

Took me forever. I managed to get one of the studs out and that allowed the cover to come off. Ended up destroying another stud so had to drill it out and used a tap and die set to rebore. All turned out ok in the end.

The other stud came out with lots of heat and penetrating fluid.

Not a fun job, just keep repeating the process, penetration fluid and lots of heat.

Good luck

James
James Paul

think part of the problem is that they are cooked in there anyway so what's more heat going to do.





James Paul

Took 5 days to sort this out!





James Paul

Colin,

Do you have access to a lathe? Once in a situation like this I made a very thin hole saw and used that to clean the crap around the stud, ran it down around the stud by hand and all work OK.
David Billington

It may have to be butchery with an angle grinder to cut through the housing and the thermostat so you can get a bit more purchase on the studs. Last resort stuff though!
Bob Beaumont

I don't know if this would work, but how about applying your propane torch to the head casting at the base of the stud, rather than on the stud itself. Logic being that the casting would expand and release its grip on the stud. Heating the stud as you have been doing may cause it to expand and could be having the opposite effect and jamming it even tighter!

The one to try this on would be the front one. Heat the head near to the stud base as quickly as your torch will manage and try working the stud back and forth with mole grips or whatever method you can that will grip it.
GuyW

Colin,
I assume your cover is an alloy one ?

I've had similar problems with old Seagull outboards where I needed to save the castings and on these I very carfully drill down the side of the studs with something like a 1-1.5mm drill in a Dremel type unit at fairly close centres - using little pressure - alloy being easy to drill and lots of lube.
I have a 'sensitive' drilling machine which would have been easier for small drills but could not get the engine parts in place so often resorted to a freehand Dremel !
The grip being partially released and a bit more heat and a few bashes normally got the casting off without totally destroying it.
Even if the drill is not full depth its still reducing the 'white rust' grip.

R.
richard b

ETA: typing as Richard posted.

Colin,
for the stuck housing, as David has put it's the housing to studs mating you want to break up, if you could leave something to soak in like drops of caustic soda and then hit the tube of the housing from above and below to vibrate and rock the housing to hopefully crack and break the bonds, probably take repeated applications.

Or as the stud(s) are hot from blow torch get the chisel and hammer out, having a go at them one at a time if necessary. You only need the first bit of movement to help with more movement.

If that hasn't worked when cold keep trying a good penetrating/releasing fluid (PlusGas is my go to now Rapideeze is in the distant past) because of you've already found these jobs need time and patience plus repeated applications.

Someone here, sorry forget who, favorite method, spot weld nut(s) to stud(s), with one or more stud out there's more room for wriggle and access for chisel/screwdriver and/or leverage.

Depends how much you want to save, I'd at least replace the studs.

Best of luck, keep going as suddenly you can get a little movement and progres from it.
Nigel Atkins

I have seen studs installed with Permatex, etc. to keep from leaking (very bad idea) or they leak and corrode in the housing. I've had some success using a trick an old mechanic taught me. Thread a nut on the stud leaving about one thread of the nut above the end of the stud, then weld the nut to the stud in the little crater. The thermal shock helps break the bond and the nut gives you a good grip with a 6 point box wrench to turn back and forth to try to loosen the stud.
Stan Kowznofski

if you need to destroy the housing to get it off all is not lost. They are hard to get hold of new but I've a very good one on ebay for sale, and the price can be adjusted downwards for a fellow BBS-er.
David Smith

Colin,
sorry, very unusually my mind wandered on my last post, I should have put -

If the hot stud method hasn't worked then when cold keep trying the leave something to soak in like drops of caustic soda and then hit the tube of the housing from above and below because as you've already found these jobs need time and patience plus repeated applications.
Nigel Atkins

I've done the same as Stan and had good results. It's fiddly because I don't have a MIG set and the stick welder is a bit sudden but it's doable with care.

Richard - British Seagull outboards. I thought I was the only one left! I just gave away four of them a couple of months ago when I finally got tired of tripping over them.
Greybeard

Grey,
I'm not a massive fan of the old Seagull's it was my cousins (he only has to look at an engine and it stops running) he had it from new and I rebuilt it (cost a small fortune in parts ISTR) but thats what he wanted !

I mainly ran small Merc's on my rubberdubbers (Avons rollaways etc).

R.
richard b

Did this once successfully on a Mini (and won't say how many times unsuccessfully : )

Decide to sacrifice some parts. I would find a good replacement thermostat housing first and replacement studs, gasket and thermostat, and then very carefully with a junior hacksaw cut a pair of vertical slits about 3/16" apart (or just either side of the stud, memory wonky) on the outermost part of the thermostat housing for the studs that face outwards from the block, taking care not to cut into the block. You can then pry away bits of thermostat housing to expose more of the stud length, this may loosen things enough with some application of hide mallet to the thermostat housing (or put in more Plusgas and leave for a day or two). You can also drill a hole or two (or knock a small hole) into one side of the top of the thermostat housing to get an old screwdriver/very small pry bar in/water pump pliers, so you try gentle levering of the housing without contacting the cylinder head or the thermostat itself (you might end up breaking off too much of the top of the thermostat housing, if so continue to remove it). Once you have enough access you can use your stud extractor, but more Plusgas and patience first.

The above is not pretty, and needs to be done with some care so not damaging stuff you need to use in future, but can be done as a last resort.

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Parts alert! - my spare which was already on ebay has been bought, sorry.
David Smith

David Smith
Thank you David it has helped one of my Kent member's a Damsel in Distress.
Richard is sourcing parts for her and basically being a gobetween her and a garage.
Anan
Alan Anstead

That must be Richard with a capital 'R' nothing to do with Zumerset folk !
richard b

That is a Kent Masc member Richard. We have three Richards!
Alan
Alan Anstead

This thread was discussed between 19/11/2020 and 22/11/2020

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