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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Suspension - Shock conversions

Hi BBSers - Happy Friday!

My lever arm shocks are getting a bit past it - should pass my MOT - but I think I want to replace them anyway.

My options seem to be.

1. direct refurb units @ £18 a corner
2. refurb units 30% uprated @ £20 a corner (whatever that means)

or 3. some sort of telescopic coversion @ costly prices


Who has done a telescopic conversion that they think is worth it. And how has it lasted? and can you get replacement shock readily, and are they reasonable if you do need them?

Has anyone made their own replacement system rather than buying an off the shelf system.

Lots to think about!

Christian
C L Carter

the thing with recon parts and components like the dampers now is during their life cyles how many times and how well they've been reconned and how badly they got before being reconned and it point has to be considered at each recon which you wont know

hope that makes sense

sometimes a top up or change of damper oil might help existing dampers

I've had the uprated to front as at the time it cost me only about a 1 each extra - I can't say I noticed a difference because the old set weren't great so the standard new set would have improved things

when I got my midget it had Spax on the rear, I swapped to LB telescopic they were better, the dampers are made by Avo (who are very local to me) to contract, I had one leak and they refurbed it at set price - you could buy replacement dampers subject to proof that you bought the originals

I'm sure you could get an off the shelf damper and make your own rear kit (Gaz are helpful and others have tables)

the front is a different matter

plenty of info in the Archives on all
Nigel Atkins

Christian,

in one of the recent discussions on this topic the upshot that stood out to me was this:

The best source for rebuilt Armstrong (lever arm) dampers is from a specialist in the US who makes them better than new, World Wide Auto Parts of Madison, Wisconsin.
The price of rebuilt lever arm dampers from him is cheaper than a Front Line tele conversion, and arguably works as well.

http://www.nosimport.com/
Peter Caldwell is the proprietor


hope this helps,
Norm
Norm Kerr

It's going to be expensive to convert all round if you buy the kits.

I've read that the rears are easy and cheap to convers. Mini teles will do it.

For the fronts, making your own is more complicated but quite a few have done it.

Do you remember the discussion earlier about the fronts? I have the early version of the frontline conversion kit. No spares available from FL when it wears out. Currently I've gone back to lever arms (I had a good pair of recons laying around), and I quite like them, whilst I decide to "repair" the conversion.

Meanwhile the later version of the FL kit has a different bearing, and it I believe better in that spares are available, but there have been problems for some. Onno, has had a problem.

The front tele conversion does feel nice, but now I've gone back to lever arms, I'm not unhappy. Maybe if you are going to race, and or you can't get decent recon levers it's worth converting, but I reckon if you can get decent levers, it wouldn't hurt to save the money and the time.
Lawrence Slater

2 X peter cardwell

Plus the exchange rate is in your favor

I have the frontline kit... I havent installed it yet, but its supposed to be the cats meow

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I put FL kit on the front of my car and in my opinion, it was a waste of money.

I did have Peter May negative camber top trunnions on and there was next to no difference when fitting the FL kit apart from a very large hole in my wallet, would I do it again? No

I would get good quality lever arms for the front

Just my opinion, don't shoot me down for this :)

John
John Collins

I would do a check on the condition of your present ones first - look for signs of leakage and make sure that they are fully topped up. At the same time, check out the whole of the rest of your front suspension. It is quite possible that there is wear in other components like the fulcrum bushes or kingpin that may be more critical to fix first.

If you think about it, at £18 for a "reconditioned" unit they cannot be doing much beyond giving them a clean, refilling the oil and repainting them. You could do all of that, or just refill with fresh oil and have as good an item. To get properly rebuilt ones has got to be more expensive than that.
Guy Weller

If there is a bunch of slop in the rest of your front suspension, then new/reconditioned shocks will be ruined by all the additional lateral forces.

I was looking inside of a shock (most likely ruined by slop in the lower fulcrum) and was astonished by the little clamping ring that is supposed to hold the shock arm in place with a meager crimp. It seems that a better clamping device should be devised and offered on rebuilds.
Trevor Jessie

what Guy said and possibly Trevor

the LB front set up to me was noticably better under braking than the standard

changing worn bushes can make a big improvement and be not that costly
Nigel Atkins

A couple of Masc members in Kent have had new (not recon) front shock problems.
On one the shaft pulled out of body.
The other on buying a pair found one arm had 10lb pressure & the other 2lb. They were returned and exchanged but I have not had an update.
I believe Caldwell Converted shocks may be available from Peter May Eng.
Alan
Alan Anstead

Alan, how do you go about testing the presure of the arms. Is all you need a weight dangled from it?
Lawrence Slater

Other than Alan I notice nobody has mentioned new lever arms. That what I have used (no problems with them so far, although I did have to open out the single bolt hole on both of them) but they are 90 odd quid each.

Trev
T Mason

Lawrence. I assumed that he hooked then up to some sort of spring scale but I dont know for definite.
Hanging some weights should suffice.
The fault whereby the pivot arm came out was a bit worrying as it seems only to be held in by a splined press fit.
It was my belief that Moss had bought out Monroe who had bought out Armstrong and were now manufacturing the new shocks. There is obviously an inspection / quality control problem but it seems to affect so many parts these days. Fitting a mechanical fuel pump to a member's car last monday the bolt holes were 2mm out. Couldn't have fitted it at the roadside. Luckily we were in his garage . I have recently bought a brake 3 way connector and the threads are barely formed - I would not want to hook it up on a brake line.
Alan Anstead

Thanks Alan.
Lawrence Slater

We have had good results with new MGB lever arms, but the Midgets wer a different story.
We also had the fulcrum pull out of a rear one, but the front was even worse. First, none of the bolts went through the holes, which had been left in their raw cast state. OK simple job drill them out, job done but it shouln't have needed doing. just a minor irritation But the real problem was that when we torqued them up, they locked solid, no movement at all. In fact any tightening torque over about 15 lb-ft caused this. Clearly the bodies were distorting. We had a batch of 4 shocks, all were the same. Useless.
Paul Walbran

Paul, can you tell us where did those bad units come from?
(BMC, or one of the suppliers mentioned earlier in this thread, or some other supplier?)


George Carlin used to have a joke that went like this (announcing the news): "And in Sports, here is a partial score; Yankees 7."


":oD
Norm
Norm Kerr

Thanks to everyone, there is some good reading here.

I'm going to rebuild my entire front susp, so was thinking about what to do with dampers. Also noticed some leaking at the back. For now I think I will top them up and see how I go, the MOT man didn't complain about them today so that satisfies me.

What oil do they get topped up with?

Thanks
Chris
C L Carter

this or something like (SAE 20) - http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/vintage,-veteran-&-classic/shocker_oil_1
Nigel Atkins

That fuel pump I mentioned above failed on the way to Whitstable yesterday. New parts!
Alan Anstead

From a purely personal opinion, fitting the FL conversion to the front of my Midget is one of the best modification I have made. Sorry to disagree with you John. In fairness I have always had the standard lever arm dampers on my Midgets (not the adjustable ones) and so am only comparing the standard ones with the FL kit. As I say, just a personal opinion.
Neil T

Meant to say that you should try and get a drive in a Midget with the FL set up.
Neil T

Neil, no worries - my comments are based on going from one modified set up to another - and so probably not going to notice as much improvement as if going from slightly worn standard parts. The only difference I do find with FL setup is that it no longer "kicks back" through the steering wheel if hitting a bump/pothole mid corner.

I think the fact that I spent a lot of money to gain only a very small improvement probably colours my judgement a little ;-)

John
John Collins

Hiya John. Yes I understand that. You are right about the kick back. There is virtually none. Feels very self assured. My FL set up is only two years old with 13,000 odd miles on so should be good for a few years yet. Also spares should be available. Otherwise I know somebody who might be able to help.
Neil T

>>Otherwise I know somebody who might be able to help<<
as my set up is 2 years old as well please do tell

I had a rear (Avo) damper leak, 3 days after an MoT so just for once I was in luck and Avo are less that 5 miles from my place, repaired at a set cost

a tip Geoff at Brown & Gammons done for me was to coat the adjuster knobs in duck(?) grease to stop them seizing with muck and water getting on them

no tools required to adjust them but you are on your knees at least to get at them

mine are on 2 or 3 clicks up from softest (depending on whethe you count the very first click or if thats zero)
Nigel Atkins

Hi Nigel,
My fronts are on 8 and rears on 4 clicks. Did put the rears up to 5 on the weekend with the boot packed with camping gear for MG Live. Got to say, with the AVO's I didnt even notice the extra weight over the 450 mile round trip.
Neil T

my front suspension 'update' with a tele and a triangulated top link is miles better than the lever arms were, and are on dad's midget. Interesting to compare the 2 right after each other, the difference is noticeable even from the passenger seat!

stability under hard braking is massively improved, and cornering power is also better. Mid corner stability is much much better, with less of the hop skip and jump encountered on the lever arm cars mid corner. It oversteers more predictably also.

my fronts are harder than the backs, if it's the other way round then it's squirmy and odd.

I'd never go back to standard levers with no other mods - it's too easy to outdrive them even with the A series IMO. Conversion worth it just for flex reduction and progressive damping.


the oil in the levers is special damper oil I think - smells awful :)
Rob Armstrong

The Peter Caldwell shocks work out, with the exchange rate as it is at the moment, at about £230 for a pair of fronts. That's with shipping from the US and the surcharge for exchange units, which you have to pay as it would be uneconomical to send your old ones back.

Bernie.
b higginson

Sorry Neil I meant please do tell who for -
>>Otherwise I know somebody who might be able to help<<

wow 8 clicks on the front, I went from 2 or 3 with the 340 lb lowered spring to 6 or 7 when the standard 271 lb springs went back in and whilst it felt firm I reckon it helped to rattle of the fuel pipe to the rear carb which stripped some paint off and left a pool of fuel and Waxoyl beneath my feet

I tried going up an extra click or two with the previous springs and it just made the ride too crashy on the town roads around here and the country roads I like

I found fitting the stops to the 11/16” ARB transmitted a lot of what the road surface is like and holes
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 22/06/2012 and 26/06/2012

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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