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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Starter

I finally gave in at the weekend and took the midget down to Reading Uni so that my daughter can drive it for the last two weeks of term. It was a great drive round the M25 and M4 in the cold sunshine with the top down. Car went without any issues (and has done for the last 18 months).
However, my daughter went to start her up this morning and all she got was the whirring of the starter and a mechanical grating noise. I have only heard this over the phone and have not looked at it yet (I am planning a trip out there after work tonight), but it sounds to me liek the starter bendix not being thrown into the ring gear.
I got her to put the car in gear and push it back 6 inches to make sure it was not the teeth on the ring gear. She said that there was a grating noise when she did this.
I expect that a replacement starter will do the trick but does anyone have any other ideas I should check first?
The battery, connections, engine earth etc. are all ok and there has not been any problems or noises when starting in the past.
It is a 1275 MK3 with standard compression.
If I am going to replace the starter, is it worth replacing it with a modern style one and are they a straight swap? I am going to add a high compression head from Peter Burgess in the near future.
Thanks for your help.

PS If there is anyone who fancies an evening in the cold, on their back, in the dark, fingers in gritty, oily muck, helping to remove a starter in Reading please feel free to come along! I will be at the university.

Dave
Dave Brown

Dave,
How can you be sure (at a distance) that it isn't just battery related (daughters do leave lights on, you know!)
I certainly sounds like the starter but this could be simply not enough "whiz" to get it engaged. Does she have jump leads with the car?

Could save you a cold dark gritty mucky oily night in Reading. I remember the place well! (ex Reading student from last century)
Guy

if you're getting a HC head then I think yes it would be worth getting a modern hi-torque starter

I've got one on a standard head, mind they are expensive especially compared to repairing the existing one

keep in your mind the normal sound and often misses on catching of the original starter then if you change it to hi-torq it'll make even more sense to you that you changed

they put less strain on the rest of the starting system which might be handy if your car is with any off-spring at Uni especially in winter
Nigel Atkins

Guy,
Yes you could be right, I am not sure, but I did hear the noise over the phone and it did sound like the starter was turning, not engaging the ring gear but grinding a bit on the ring gear teeth. The engine did not move at all, apparently, she had the bonnet up and the fan belt did not move when the starter was 'spinning', well making the noise! It certainly wasn't just a starter motor wizz noise.
She does not have jump leads there so I must remember to take them with me.
It could be that the battery has been drained and only has enough charge to turn the starter slowly and not throw the bendix into the ring gear.
Dave
Dave Brown

Hi Nigel,
It was never intended to go to University but as there is only two weeks left, she has got a job that is a 45 minute walk away, the cab fair is £15 return, she only gets £6 an hour, she finishes late at night, there was a rape on campus a couple of weeks ago and we were going down there anyway I thought it would be fine!
Where did you get your starter from Nigel?
Dave Brown

if it was bad teeth another reason for hi-torq

got mine from MGOC will post more next
Nigel Atkins

'available from other suppliers'

MGOC - Starter- Geared, 1275 GXE9405X £179.95 Including VAT at 20%

Mine from them is a PowerLite unit - http://www.powerlite-units.com/





Nigel Atkins

If the starter is being pulled, take the spark plugs out and get someone to turn the engine over while you examine the ring gear on the flywheel for wear. If the ring gear is worn, then I'm afraid it's an engine out job, but it does sound more like the starter is at fault. It could be that an oil leak from the rear of the engine has mixed with clutch dust and got onto the starter Bendix and gunged it up.

Bernie.
b higginson

Sounds to me like the starter motor might have come loose, if pushing the car in gear makes a grating noise!
Dave O'Neill2

as usual I total missed that bit

loose is bad earth too but that loose it grinds is beyond that

Dave,
is it that common that they come loose or just 'not unkown'
Nigel Atkins

Dave,
I had not thought of the starter being loose. It sounds very plausable to me now. I still have not fully sorted the vibration I have from buckled wheels. It is much better but still there. That could have rattled the bolts loose.
I have had that before a long time ago once on my old Midget - must have been 25 years ago now. Fixed it on the side of the A1 going up to Peterborough.
Fingers crossed, just tighten the bolts up but with a bit of threadlock this time.
Thanks
Dave
Dave Brown

Not that common, but it has been known.
Dave O'Neill2

right cheers Dave

I remember seeing it on a faults list (Haynes I think) and thinking why it would be on there
Nigel Atkins

I was thinking of a high torque starter when my previous starter broke (bendix stripped itself) but decided to buy a standard replacement and a more powerful battery. It's too early to say how long the starter will last but it's definately starting better than before with the old battery.
Engine is relatively new (10k) 1330 (11:1 compression) engine.
When the bendix stripped it didn't make a crunching noise as far as I remember, just a wirring noise, as you'd imagine.
Gary & Gaps

bit late on this one but I am 20 mins from the Uni and can give you a usable s/hand starter if it gets you out of trouble...
David Smith

David Smith,
Thanks for the offer, I sorted it last night, but thank you anyway.
It turned our that the lower nut and bolt had fallen out.
I bodged it last night to get the car going as I was in such a rush to get there I forgot to take spare nuts & bolts, jump leads and threadlock. I managed to use a piece of studding I had in the tool box that I had used to remove the front spring pan. I hope it will last 10 days until the car comes home when I can fix it properly.
So no high torque starter for me just yet but not £150 worse off.
Dave, Nige,
Loose starters may not be that common but I have now had two in my Midget ownership. I must learn to fit them properly ;).
Dave
Dave Brown

Dave,

Glad you're going again.

You Don't need threadlock. Just decent spring washers and or Nylocs. That's all I've ever used, and I've never had a loose starter motor. If they come loose, it's for a reason.
Lawrence Slater

nylocs are a complete PITA on those 2 bolts especially the lower one. You want to be able to slacken by a quarter turn then spin the nuts off with fingers. Cleanliness of mating surfaces and good spring washers are all that's required IMO.
David Smith

Another vote for spring washers, as fitted by the factory.

I've never had one come loose, personally.
Dave O'Neill2

I did say, and or nylocs.

I agree spring washers are all you need. Just like love :)

But some peeps feel the need for extras, as in nylocs.
Lawrence Slater

Dave B,
get tour daughter to put the replacement bolt in then you can blame her next and it'll be good practice for her - doing the work and getting the blame :)
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 06/12/2011 and 07/12/2011

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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