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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Sills

Hi
Had my MOT today, was confident it was all mechanically sound but no, the sills have gone. Obviously not thinking of doing it myself and I haven't spoke to my bodywork guy yet but I was under the impression that the sills are a massive job? Is it worth replacing the sills and floor pan or is it time to call it a day?
L Drew

call it a day? never

and just because the sills have gone it isnt Gospel that the floor has gone too

get a couple of opinions "on the ground, at the car" but dont despair.
Bill

Lisa....! What's happening? Sills now and we are only 8 weeks from Spridget 50....! I have a couple of guys down here that may be able to help out if you are stuck, both quick workers.

Mark.
Mark Boldry

I'm gutted. Had totally forgot about MOT's! (yes I know but the car is working fine so didn't think there would be a problem) I think there probably right about the floor, to be honest its a state but I put mats down and forget about it....
Checked ebay and autotrader but all the cheap winter bargains have gone.
L Drew

hey lisa,

If the floors are half way bad....then the old saying applys "in for a penny, in for a pound"...basically it wouldnt be that much more to do the whole thing at once, rather then do the job as 2 seperate units....

If its just sills and floor pans....Id go ahead and keep the car and have it fixed.

best of luck....and glad to see you agian....are you busy with school?

prop
Prop

Hi lisa,

Is it you then that is bidding on;

http://tinyurl.com/39u54c

If so let me know so we don't get caught up in a bidding war!

James
James Ballard

Hi Mark

Do any of the guys you know work at the weekend? MOT is only valid till Sunday. I've spoke to the bloke at the body shop I've used before and he was really pessimistic about it. He couldn't believe how much it had deteriated in a year. The floor is already patched, now everything around the patch is gone and he was concerned about what would be found when the sills are removed.
I'd really like another opinion on the car before I make a decision but need to decide fast as its may daily driver.

Hi Prop
Think you've got me confused, I'm slightly past school age unfortunately.
Lisa Drew

Hi James

No thats not me, I hadn't even started looking for parts but mines a 1500 anyway.
Lisa Drew

Mine is also a 1500 but for some reason I only have one jacking point so I don't have a problem keeping with one.

J
James Ballard

Lisa keep smiling darling, i would keep the car, its your life and passion. I bought my car from a guy who had let the car rust at the bottom of his garden for 8 yrs. wow what a state. Hense it failed the MOT misarably, i had never welded or done anything like that before. so i bought myself a welder and the panels of ebay and my car has now passed its MOT. Yes its hard work and yes i think i nearly shed a tear and threw in the towel!! but im going to the Spridget 50 and so should you! good luck!!!

car pic before, yes that is the floor you can see!!!!!


sm white

James if yours only has one jacking point then I would suggest that you like me have an early 1500. The first 1000 or so had the same sills as a MkIII GAN-5, what is your chassis number? and as a matter of interest what colour is yours mine is the 50th GAN-6 made and is in Blaze red (Orange).

Cheers

Nishka (no chance of being ready for May 24th)
Nishka

and after!!!!


sm white

Lisa,
Cills is not a big job at all. It could well just e the outer cill which has gone. When I got my first 1500 I replaced cills both sides in a weekend on the drive at home. A properly equipped garage that has done it before should get it done in just 3 or 4 hours.
Guy Weller

Hi Nishka,

Not sure of the chasis number, haven't had recourse to write it down as yet. The V5 has it down as first registered in 1977 but it has been restored (badly) a couple of times before it came to me. I think what is likely is that previous owner has just salvaged some sills and not cared about the second jacking point but when the current ones come off we will see. It is currently faded red, the result of a botched spray job by a PO, but beneath the flaking paint I see the hint of what I think was called Chartreuse but what I'd describe as a very pale yellow. I'll let you know the chasis number when I get a chance to write it down.

J
James Ballard

Some of the early 1500s did have the single jacking point. I saw one like that and thought the guy had put the wrong sills in place but the before and after pictures as well as the early '75 production number set me straight.

Good luck with your sills Lisa! Pulling for you!

Clive Reddin 76 Midget

sm white,

I dont see what the problem was...lol a rubber mat, some carpeting on top, good as new, besides there was still some kind of metal left...lol.


prop
Prop

Hi SM
You win, yours are a lot worse than mine! Its just that mine are worse than Mr MOT thinks is acceptable. Looking at some options at the moment but if any one knows of any resonable and cheap midgets let me know.
L Drew

Lisa. Just had a call from Nick. Looks like he could be your Knight in shining armour....

You can always call me if you still need a second opinion. 07889 799033

Mark.
Mark Boldry

thats one of those funny odd differances between the USA and the UK....Here they are vary concerned about emissions and basic safety....headlights, windshild, brakes, ect. but you can have a tree growing out of the passanger seat, with floor pan completely gone with the seat bolted to some angle iron across the big hole....and it will pass no problem.


prop
Prop

My sympathies to my UK brethren regarding their MOTs.

Over here a car unless it's over 20 years old has to be emission tested every 2 years. It has to be safety inspected only upon transfer from one person to another. So, in theory, I could buy a car drive it forever and it will never be inspected to ensure it is fit for the road until I send it to the scrap yard.

Pretty scary thought. However, if it appears to be an unsafe vehicle, the police can stop me and have a vehicle safety inspected but we're talking "Flintstone specials", rusted fenders, bald tires, baling wire and duct tape holding it all together.

Haven't seen many meeting that description for years though.

Clive Reddin 76 Midget

Lisa,
Can you e-mail me please at Guy.wellereggtiscalieggcoegguk (replace the eggs!)
Guy Weller

>>> Over here a car unless it's over 20 years old has to be emission tested every 2 years. It has to be safety inspected only upon transfer from one person to another. <<<

It varies by state here in the US, but the regs here in Missouri state that the car must be inspected for safety AND emissions annually, unless you pay a bit extra and get it licensed it for two years.

For cars prior to 1982, the emissions testing is no longer required in Missouri, thanks in part to one of the guys in our local MG club, the late Terry Fanning. That was good news, since it was always something of a pain to take my Midget to the emissions testers. They run through hundreds of cars a week, and a classic like mine broke the routine, and sent them into a flurry of head-scratching and poring through manuals. Now I don't have to worry about that, and fortunately, we have a local garage that I trust with the safety inspection. And for that matter, the emissions tests are only required in the more populated areas.

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

Similar here in Illinois, except thatr we have NO safety inspections whatsoever and emissions testing has now (as of 02/2007) been eliminated for all pre-OBD2 (1996) vehicles. Kinda nice...
David "spoiled rotten" Lieb
David Lieb

To add to Gryfs point,

you can get historic plates, and never have to get an inspection....granted your only supposed to drive it 1500 miles per year, but they have no way of tracking it, and no where to send paper work ....so its a free ride, makes it much easier to do whatever I want to the car.

prop
Prop

Lisa,

did you get sorted out?

Jim Stewart

Nishka,

GAN6 183324G

Must just be the wrong sills. Far from original already so I couldn't give a monkeys!

J
James Ballard

Hi Jim

Not sorted yet, looking at options at the moment. Went to look at a couple of cars at the weekend as a possible alternative, one is a possibility and got another to look at.

Lisa Drew

As lisa's not about, I'll fill you in with the unfortunate details: essentially the MOT man was bang-on to fail it. Both outer sills are gone, both floor pans are gone, including both foot wells and at least one spring hanger section. The inner sills and inner wings both look ok at first, but when you start to investigate they are also gone where they meet the floor. The bottom of the b-post on one side is not too clever either.

A pal of mine and myself were really hoping to help Lisa out to get the car up and running sharpish, but frankly its a massive job. Even then the question becomes, where do you stop? and does it make sence financially, or do you just bite the bullet and find another example that someone else has put time and money into. Its a difficult one either way you look at it.

What we might be able to do however, and this is a mad suggestion here: I love the idea of a Midget 'fix-a-thon' event where us BBS regulars meet up and get stuck in? I'd be especially game in this instance as Lisa is the most geniunely smitten midget owner you're ever likey to meet! maybe the only draw back to this is that with this kind of job, it might be a case of too many cooks. Not sure, just thinking out of the box really.



Nick

And whilst i'm typing.... Hi Lisa!
Nick

I've just re-read my post, and it sounds like i'm describing a basket-case. It's not actually anywhere near that bad!

Oh to have an edit fucntion on this BBS, moderators are you out there??!!

Sorry if i've accidently offended your poor car Lisa!
Nick

What a great event for people to attend! Sell tickets for a workshop on replacing Midget sills. I would pay and buy the dvd that follows. Someone just needs to volunteer the time and space. If all the stripping and prep had been done,how long would one side take to do??

Carl
C Bintcliffe

Hi Nick,
When Mark said that you had come to Lisa's rescue, I wondered if you were planning to make use of that workshop facility that you have access to! I also thought it might be good for a few of us to get together to fix it up. But the extent of the problem does sound rather too much for a short weekend, even if there were a number of us! Pity it is quite so far gone though, as I would certainly be willing to come over and join in the fun. Might even collect an engine at the same time!

The only problem I can see is with several people working together like that is not knowing the skill levels we each have. So time is spent establishing who is best to do what jobs. Not like working alone when you just have to get on with everything as best you can.

Guy
Guy Weller

Lisa,
you've got mail!

Guy
Guy Weller

Nick,
I have frequented forums which allow for editing posts. Not as good (or desirable) as one might think. By knowing that you cannot go back and retract the words you have posted, most of us tend to be a little more polite and possibly a little less rash than might otherwise be the case. In any event, there is more accountability, and I consider that to be a good thing. I have seen too many flames that mysteriously disappeared after the damage was already done, leaving some people greatly offended and others merely puzzled about what was going on.
David "leave well enough alone" Lieb
David Lieb

Sooooo.... the only thing holding the front of the car to the back is the transmission tunnel and the door latches?
Trevor-Jessie

Nick's making it sound worse. What it is is a clever way to keep the car cool and vent fresh air in to it in the summer. He is just jealous that he didn't think of making that modifaction to his car!

Had an idea on the way home tday, which may be totally mad but here goes..I've seen a roofers foam for restoring old buildings that expands and provides structural strength. Could something along those lines be used to fix the sills?
L Drew

Enough to pass an MOT? Surely you jest!
David Lieb

For a while, BMC used a form of expanding polyurethane foam in the sills of Minis, and I think on some 1100's as well. The idea was it would add structural strength, keep moisture out and reduce "drumming".
It didn't work as it reduced air circulation and held condensation in there with the resultant accelerated rusting. The "experiment" didn't last long and was quickly abandoned!

Guy
Guy Weller

Guy, I beg to differ on the foam topic. I have had at least two early Minis with foam filled sills and BOTH stood the test of time well. My current Austin Seven Mini is undergoing surgery at the moment, new boot floor, new door skins and bottoms, new 'A' panels, front wings and front panel and a small repair to the drivers floor. BUT the sills are still the originals and DON'T need attention.....!

Mark.
Mark Boldry

Mark,
If you "beg to differ", then it isn't with me! I wasn't claiming personal opinion or evaluation of the effectiveness. I was relating why BMC tried it for a while, and then decided to stop using the system. I lived in Oxford in the '60s and a friend's father was one a senior bod in the design department at Cowley. I remember them talking about using foam, and also about experiments at the time to construct a full Mini shell out of plastics. It was only some years later that I owned a mini which I found had foam filled sills. That one, like your experience, seemed pretty sound to me.

Guy
Guy Weller

I'm all for the sill fixing seminar, considering that I need to do just that! I've got a camera to make the DVD if that will clinch it ;)

I'm also a week away from being the owner of my first garage, at last my midge will be out of the rain!
James Ballard

A friend of mine once bought a car ( in the 70's ) which had its front inner wings filled with concrete!
That wouldn't rust :o)
Geoff Mears (1970 Midget)

I would love to come and help out with this, though not too good with a welder but can grind anything I am not gonna make spridget 50 with my car :( but still trying would like to help you get there if I can.

Thanks Ian
IAN Pickering (68 Midget) Getting There!!!!

Mark,
This issue about foam in the cills.... I was responding to Lisa's "bright idea" about using builder's expanding foam as a cill filler. To say that is just what BMC did for a while. That was the main pint of my message. The subsidiary point about abandoning it because of accelerated rusting it is what I recall being said about it. But from your experience - and mine - although a small "sample", it would suggest that it is not such a bad idea.

A while ago I started a thread about how it might be possible to spray paint the inside of box sections. Perhaps a good solution would be to heavily waxoyl first, then use an expanding foam to fill the void and keep moisture out. It might be quite an effective solution.

Anyway Lisa, have you got something sorted yet?

Guy
Guy Weller

If a video was made we could demonstrate all these wonderfull suggestions! I'd like to once again bravely and selflessly offer up my over due sill replacment and camcorder to the cause!

James "trying-in-vain-to-get-someone-else-to-do-his-dirty-work" Ballard
James Ballard

This thread was discussed between 27/03/2008 and 04/04/2008

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.